Water/meth injection

[jrvariel48]

I'm looking for some info on a water/meth system for a blown flathead. I've read they can lower detonation by lowering cylinder temperature. I'm currently running 8lbs of boost at 5500 rpms. I'm using 93 octane with Lucas octane booster and have my advance maxed at 18 degrees. I know that humidity lowers octane so I get a little concerned here in New Jersey in the summertime. I'm not looking for horsepower, just a safety net
Thanks
Joe

[tubman]

Didn't J.C. Whitney sell setups for this? I seem to remember that. The Luftwaffe liked it as well. I think Oldsmobile also used it on their turbo-charged 215" V8's,

I would think a Google search would be productive. Here's some folks : https://www.fluidotech.it/en/landing...RoCCvEQAvD_BwE.

[JWL]

Just to be sure you are saying it correctly--higher humidity reduces the octane requirement, not the octane. The increase in water molecules from high humidity means lower oxygen content and tends to make the air/fuel mixture look richer in the combustion process.

[jrvariel48]

Originally Posted by JWL

Just to be sure you are saying it correctly--higher humidity reduces the octane requirement, not the octane. The increase in water molecules from high humidity means lower oxygen content and tends to make the air/fuel mixture look richer in the combustion process.

Yes! Thank you! What’s your opinion on this system?

[1952henry]

Not sure about the water, but plenty of people could attest to a meth injection perking them up.

[Tim Ayers]

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Originally Posted by 1952henry

Not sure about the water, but plenty of people could attest to a meth injection perking them up.

Don't do meth. It's nasty stuff.

[JWL]

I somewhat doubt you have a problem. However, a more simple solution, with less continual attention, might be a boost related ignition retard and/or knock sensor. If you can hear "squeaking" sounds under maximum loads there is a problem.

[Holeshot]

The water/alcohol injection systems do work and help control detention under boost. Two potential problems with the systems if you run out of fluid (typically summer washer fluid is used) or if the pump fails, you run the risk of damaging your engine. Not sure how much you drive it but a pump gas/av gas or race gas mix is an option too.



The most expensive, but IMHO the best choice, is the MSD BTM (boost timing master). I ran their distributor, coil, and BTM ignition box with great success and zero issues. It comes with a small dial that you mount on or under the dash and allows you to dial 0,1,2,or 3 degrees of timing reduction per pound of boost. The adjustment feature is really nice if you want to switch between race fuel and pump gas and leave static timing and boost pulley ratios alone. You just dial in more timing retard for pump gas.



I am not sure if pump E85 is readily available in NJ. I don't have any experience with E85 and a blown flathead but I have used it with great success with a blown sbc. The problem with E85 is that you would need a proper fuel system for it. A larger output fuel pump and the carb/carbs need to be modified for it as well as PTFE fuel line for longevity.


Good luck with it, whatever you decide!

[1952henry]

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

Don't do meth. It's nasty stuff.

Ironically, we just lost a fellow worker to a random drug test...meth

[fordor41]

do the math not the meth

[1952henry]

[QUOTE=fordor41;2045146]do the math not the meth[/QUOT

True that.

[Graeme / New Zealand]

Originally Posted by 1952henry

Ironically, we just lost a fellow worker to a random drug test...meth

Everyones doing it down here in NZ (not really everyone but too many), it's bad shit.

GB

[jrvariel48]

Originally Posted by Holeshot

The water/alcohol injection systems do work and help control detention under boost. Two potential problems with the systems if you run out of fluid (typically summer washer fluid is used) or if the pump fails, you run the risk of damaging your engine. Not sure how much you drive it but a pump gas/av gas or race gas mix is an option too.



The most expensive, but IMHO the best choice, is the MSD BTM (boost timing master). I ran their distributor, coil, and BTM ignition box with great success and zero issues. It comes with a small dial that you mount on or under the dash and allows you to dial 0,1,2,or 3 degrees of timing reduction per pound of boost. The adjustment feature is really nice if you want to switch between race fuel and pump gas and leave static timing and boost pulley ratios alone. You just dial in more timing retard for pump gas.



I am not sure if pump E85 is readily available in NJ. I don't have any experience with E85 and a blown flathead but I have used it with great success with a blown sbc. The problem with E85 is that you would need a proper fuel system for it. A larger output fuel pump and the carb/carbs need to be modified for it as well as PTFE fuel line for longevity.


Good luck with it, whatever you decide!

Thanks Holeshot! I'm not concerned with running out of fluid, but a pump fail could be a problem. I'm not sure if the systems available give you a pump fail indicator, something for me to look into. I've been running 93 octane and adding a bottle of Lucas octane boost.
I've looked at the BTM's and it's something I can visit again. I'm running a Mallory Unilite and Mallory coil. I'm pretty sure the MSD BTM is compatible with my setup. We don't have E85 here so that's not an option for me.
Do you know anything about the meth system adding cylinder pressure?
Thanks Joe

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by 1952henry

Ironically, we just lost a fellow worker to a random drug test...meth

Dang. It's fallen out of favor with druggies on the east coast, but seems like it's still out there though.

[1952henry]

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

Dang. It's fallen out of favor for druggies on the east coast, but seems like it's still out there though.

I was a temporary Oregonian. It was/is still a drug to be reckoned with there, at least in the southern part.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by jrvariel48

Thanks Holeshot! I'm not concerned with running out of fluid, but a pump fail could be a problem. I'm not sure if the systems available give you a pump fail indicator, something for me to look into. I've been running 93 octane and adding a bottle of Lucas octane boost.
I've looked at the BTM's and it's something I can visit again. I'm running a Mallory Unilite and Mallory coil. I'm pretty sure the MSD BTM is compatible with my setup. We don't have E85 here so that's not an option for me.
Do you know anything about the meth system adding cylinder pressure?
Thanks Joe

The old water "injection" units I remember seeing used vacuum to introduce the water into the intake stream. They are a glass jar with a lid with two nipples. Pipes went to just above the bottom and one was a feed and the other was a return. I never used one or knew anyone who used them, but I'd assume the intake vacuum would suck water in, but I think you'd need some type of metering or nozzle to prevent it from dumping too much water into the motor.

[STEVE O]

Here is a photo of the factory installed vitameter on my 1951 crosley super sports. It would inject vitane (mixture of water and alcohol and lead) because of the higher 10:1 compression on the quicksilver engines. The vitameter was a add on for other cars but i understand they never worked well. I just run high octane fuel
steve

[1952henry]

That's neat to see. Hadn't heard of one before