Supply & Demand

[Terry, NJ]

In all honesty, with tweaking the dies, It could be days or it could be a month or more, after it's initially built. I have a minor disagreement with your estimate that 75-100 is a lifetime supply. There must be a larger pent up demand than that. But I will agree that you would have to keep the price down in order to meet it. It will have to be a RETIRED tool and diemaker (not me) who does this. And most likely he will have his own lathe, Bridgeport, surface grinder and presses . He' need some time on his hands to kill. Always remember, If Ole Henry could make it in 1927, we can certainly make it in 2012.
Terry

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Terry, you are thinkling pretty much how I did at the beginning of this thread, but playing your mindset through my mind, how long does it take to "master" the process where you can successfully produce 25 a day? The reason I ask is that two or three days production will be the entire production run needed to make a supply available for many years of restorations. Sadly I think the brutal reality to this whole project is the economic feasability of actually doing it however just like the case with the Rootlieb running boards, if a group of investors wants to commit to a certain quantity, maybe someone will step up to perform the manufacturing. Maybe someone here??

[Rowdy]

With the fact a very small percentage of remaing 28-29 vehicles need them I think a run of 75 would likely last nearly 10 years. The cars they go on all have wood subrails and body structure. So the survival rate of them is not good and the difficulty of restoring one is high. Rod

[Bob C]

Maybe if they were available it would be like white wall tires and stone guards, everybody
thinks they need them.

[Rowdy]

Stone Gaurd maybe, whitewalls, cowl lights and cowl bands never on one of my cars. Rod

[Terry, NJ]

I see! So we are not talking about the entire run of 28/29 cars. This only involves a certain model or models. Since that's the case, Brent is correct, you will sell 10 in the first month and it will take you ten years to get your investment back on the other 90. Volume! The one thing that can save any business from just about anything! Without it you're dead!
Terry

Originally Posted by Rowdy

With the fact a very small percentage of remaing 28-29 vehicles need them I think a run of 75 would likely last nearly 10 years. The cars they go on all have wood subrails and body structure. So the survival rate of them is not good and the difficulty of restoring one is high. Rod

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

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If I were to want to undertake this endeavor (--which I ain't!! ) the person I would first go after is the feller that used to frequent the old Fordbarn forum that was from Michigan and made the Sport/Biz Coupe belt mouldings. I can see his face, and many of us met him when he came here for the Fordbarn Workshop, but for the life of me I cannot remember his name! I would think that however he did those would be about the same way the bands would need to be formed.

.

[Bob Johnson]

As many of you know often I will see how something can be made and I just have to see if it can be done.

[wi0v]

I don't think you have to have a large production run. There is a demand. Each of the Major suppliers would want two or three in their inventory. So there is a dozen, then with the pent-up demand, by owners like myself, you could easily have a nice production run. Once the dies are made, you can make small runs as the demand dictates. A major profit maker, probably not. Many products are low volume, low demand but they also bring a higher than normal price.

I think the 30-31 Stainless Steel Bands look excellent and shows that Stainless Steel can be formed. They look just as good as the other SS parts we substitute for expensive Nickel or chrome plated not counting durability. Now many of you won't like my accepting SS when it should be brass w/nickel plate but only one out of a few hundred/thousand cars out there are of "points" quality. A Nickel plated Brass Band is afterall also a repro. So, I think most of us would be happy just to have a nice looking band of SS. It would better than a painted one or as I’ve seen recently carts where they simply left the bad looking one on or simply left it off. I'm not after points just a nice Model A for Touring and enjoying.

Then of course we haven't (and probably don't want to) considered China, where most of these repro parts come from.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Gary, I am not being critical towards you but that mindset of folks accepting SS in lieu of authentic looking Nickle-plated Brass is not something I think people would embrace very well. I'm not sure many dealers/investors would take what you are suggesting as gospel either. Vintique seemingly takes your same mindset where "close is good enough" yet hobbyists constantly complain about why manufacturers can't make stuff correctly. I think if we had a band like you suggested, it would be on that Hall of Shame list with other such failures.

I would offer that if a stainless steel band is acceptable for use on your car, then buy the reproduction one for a 30/31 and re-bend it to fit your car's cowl and lets see how it is accepted. Maybe I am wrong with my views above???

[murry29]

A Briggs and Murray are not the same.

[Terry, NJ]

Well Bob, It has all the essential elements of the necessary die, Forming punch, Male, forming die (Female) Leader pins (Nails) and I see you used a hammer for force. It's crude and imprecise but it works for one operation. Now, How ya going to fold the bottom under? How ya gonna make the terminals (ends)? And how are you going to bend it to fit the cowl? With out crushing it and widening it at the bends. You've got a start on this.
By remaking the punch (Male) and extending it away from the top of your die shoe, And By replacing the bottom (female) half of the die with a piece of die rubber, you can get the corners to begin their bend at the end of the die's radius. You can finish this bend by making a set of progressive rollers and pulling the stock through.
Get through this and I'll give you some more tips on the other operations. Wish I could send you some pics.
Terry

Originally Posted by Bob Johnson

As many of you know often I will see how something can be made and I just have to see if it can be done.

[Terry, NJ]

Bob, In another thread, I ran across more about this cowl band and how it's held in place. I would think that the dimensions of the "Tails" that are folded under on each side of the bend have to be held precisely. These are what go under a "clip" on the body to fasten the band to the body. Too narrow an opening and you distort them installing the part, Too wide, an opening and the part rattles off. So you would have to "develope" the width of the blank. It would be easiest to buy your brass in strips already cut to length, rather than off a roll . Remember, They eat the waste! And you'd have two operations done (Length and width) when they came in the door.
Terry

[SteveB31]

If anyone really wants to do this, I have 2/3 of a complete 1929 cowl band that could be used as the sample.

The Briggs and Murray cowl bands are the same.

All I have ever seen is brass ones (until I saw the photo of the steel one in this thread).

Tim, you brought up a point I was going to bring up.....In order to use this cowl band on any 1929 Murray or Briggs Town Sedan or 1929 Cabriolet, you have to also have the inner piece it snaps on to, which is an even more complicated piece (made of steel) that is often rusted out.....

Just some thoughts........

If you call Anthony Raffin (who made the sport coupe belt rails), of which he sold many more then the estimated production you guys have suggested here, I think he would tell you not to do it (as I know he never made any $4 of that venture).

Dont forget these brass cowl bands were also used on ALL 1929 Cabriolets....

Just some thoughts to ponder..

Steve Becker
Berts Model A Center