Wiring Harness Issues - Lights - Need Ideas

[psimet]

I have a '28 (One bulb headlights and single taillight). When I recently got it back up and running I noticed we had a short somewhere near the battery box. Looks like it was that wire for the stop switch which had lost it's insulation and was so brittle that touching it causes the wire inside to snap and crackle.

I bought a new wiring harness and stop switch. Was looking forward to putting it in until it dawned on me that back in the early 80's the wires on the front end were patched to a degree. There are "modern" wires with an inline fuse going to the headlights and the horn.

There's a long section of electrical tape where everything was spliced in shortly after the harness in the column end.

This weekend I pulled the headlight trim off to look at the light/socket inside and discovered what I believe is a one piece light (reflector/lens/bulb, etc) that was screwed into the headlight can. I didn't dig deeper but guessing that was some sort of modern repop complete light assembly back in the 70's 80's that my uncle just hard wired in.

I want to go back to what was original but I have to be honest I'm not sure what all I am missing. Right now my guess is:

1. Headlight socket (x2) - 1928 version 1 bulb
2. Reflectors (x2) 1-bulb
3. Lenses (fluted)
4. Gaskets?
5. Lens clips?

I can't seem to find a nice exploded diagram of the assembly as it should be.

My conduit seems like it should work. I tried to get the original replacement from Bert's as they seem to be the only ones that list the "AR" 5/8" version in nickel but they are out for the time being.

I bought a 2 light plug kit.

I'm also stuck on the horn as it was direct wired with modern wires. as well. Anyone have pictures of how that should be wired and what parts I should be getting?

In the meantime I think I will cut the brake light circuit wires from the old harness and wire in a modern wire just so I can run with it until I collect all the needed headlight and horn parts to convert it back to the original wiring.

Any ideas or advise?

[Ed in Maine]

I can understand your frustration but for reliability and safety, the wiring should be completely replaced. You need to take a good look at what you have ordered and go back to the supplier and tell him you do not have everything you need. There are very good looking wiring kits that have the original looking cloth color coded wiring. They usually come with the contact plate that goes into the light switch at the bottom of the steering column. This portion will cover the headlights, horn and conection to the generator and a wire which heads to the rear of the car for tail lights. There will be separate wires for the cowl lights (if any), around the instrument panel and perhaps a wire for the overhead dome light. So in summation, review what you have, make a list of what is connected and then looking at a wiring schematic go back to your supplier and ask them to tell what you need. Good luck, Ed

[psimet]

Originally Posted by Ed in Maine

I can understand your frustration but for reliability and safety, the wiring should be completely replaced. You need to take a good look at what you have ordered and go back to the supplier and tell him you do not have everything you need. There are very good looking wiring kits that have the original looking cloth color coded wiring. They usually come with the contact plate that goes into the light switch at the bottom of the steering column. This portion will cover the headlights, horn and conection to the generator and a wire which heads to the rear of the car for tail lights. There will be separate wires for the cowl lights (if any), around the instrument panel and perhaps a wire for the overhead dome light. So in summation, review what you have, make a list of what is connected and then looking at a wiring schematic go back to your supplier and ask them to tell what you need. Good luck, Ed

Yeah - sorry if I didn't explain it right but I have the right replacement wiring harness/kit and it's not missing parts. I got what I ordered and what I ordered is part of what I need.

I'm asking about the headlight assembly as my uncle converted it to a self contained light in the 80's and hard-wired it into the existing harness. He also hard wired the horn. I am aiming to put it all back.

I either need a list of everything I need to buy to put the headlights back to a stock assembly (the can and ring, etc are original... but the insides seem to have been swapped to a self contained light assembly that is hardwired) or ideas on how to connect what is in there to the brass end terminals on the replacement wiring kit.

[nkaminar]

Regarding the horn, there are usually two male bullet ends on the wires that are shoved into two brass clips. If your uncle hard wired the horn, I am not sure what that means. Take the rear cover off and see if the original brass clips are still there. (It does not matter which bullet end goes in which clip.) Your new wiring harness should have the two bullet ends on the wires for the horn.

[Gary Karr]

If you want to take your '28 Model A back to original on the headlight and tail lamp looms with all of the correct sockets and switches, it can be done. You need the single bulb reflectors and an early two-position light switch, which uses the early round bakelite plate. Neither are reproduced. The best loom to use with these is from Sacramento Vintage. Trying to use a later type loom and round plate simply won't work. All of it can be done.

[psimet]

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Originally Posted by nkaminar

Regarding the horn, there are usually two male bullet ends on the wires that are shoved into two brass clips. If your uncle hard wired the horn, I am not sure what that means. Take the rear cover off and see if the original brass clips are still there. (It does not matter which bullet end goes in which clip.) Your new wiring harness should have the two bullet ends on the wires for the horn.

This! Thank you. That’s what I was wanting to hear. Based on this I took the cover off and found there are brass clips left and it looks like my uncle just kept the ends with the bullets on them and spliced it into the wires he used.

My new harness has the bullet connectors on the end of course so I’m al set with the horn. THANK YOU!

[psimet]

I can only post 1 picture per post so … I apologize but now that I am home maybe I can explain this a bit better.



Hopefully you can see he spliced in modern wires. Then used electrical tape to cover the splices like a little vinyl “loom”. Put an in line fuse in as well.

None of that bothers me. What the issue is that he then didn’t have whatever connectors he needed so he just removed whatever was in his way with the headlights and then mounted a sealed headlight in the can…..

[psimet]

So I have the 5/8 conduit, the little bushing from the light can you the conduit. The cover that twists to put them together but as you can see he ran the wires straight into the light with no socket, connectors, etc

[psimet]

Light has the following in it


The original ring to clamp it together and this bezel that looks old and has remnants of old black paint but I can’t tell if that’s supposed to be there or was part of the sealed light kit

[psimet]

“Sealed beam”, that bezel, then the normal hoop in place

[psimet]

Screwed through some stamped steel u nuts holding the whole assembly in place

[psimet]

Sealed light unit removed. As you can see there’s no socket or anything else. Just wires. Looks like he took an original wire and ran it as a separate ground back to the adjuster screw location and he put just a nut on it.

So assuming I’m not stepping up and buying complete lights at the moment and knowing I have a new harness with the brass ends - what am I missing to build up these lights the right way?

Sorry if it was confusing. I’m a more visual guy.

[psimet]

And since we’re talking about it anyway what am I going to have to fix on the stop light as well? [emoji16]

[Badpuppy]

https://www.brattons.com/catalogsear...adlight+socket - most of what you need for headlight internals (and a lot you don't). Also need a #10 screw for focusing

I believe the taillight has an extender wire of its own and a clip inside the fender.

[1931 flamingo]

If you're happy with the sealed beam conversion I would run the new harness and splice it to the sealed beams inside the shell. JMO
Paul in CT

[Badpuppy]

Would be easier and cheaper. Aside from the ugly there's nothing terribly wrong with the sealed beam conversion. Full restoration will require removing the socket at the base of the bucket, have to drill out rivets to get to it, replace with rivet-head screws, available from the vendors. The socket is part of the inner wiring assembly.

[psimet]

Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo

If you're happy with the sealed beam conversion I would run the new harness and splice it to the sealed beams inside the shell. JMO
Paul in CT

It's the splicing in I don't want to do. I like the new harness and don't want to cut off the brass ends and spoil it with some modern wire. I figured going back to the original setup would be easiest as the parts are available...

....but... the lights currently work so... also thinking of just cutting the stop light wires off the existing harness and splicing in modern wires to run to the back for now as that will solve my current problem and allow me to buy up all the parts to covert the lights back so I can then put in the new harness when ready.

Originally Posted by Badpuppy

Would be easier and cheaper. Aside from the ugly there's nothing terribly wrong with the sealed beam conversion. Full restoration will require removing the socket at the base of the bucket, have to drill out rivets to get to it, replace with rivet-head screws, available from the vendors. The socket is part of the inner wiring assembly.

There's no socket in the base right now. Just that ferrule bushing that the socket would normally fit into as it connects to the wires coming in.

There in is my problem - I can't find a diagram of how the original lights go together. I can find ones for Model T's but not Model A's. Was hoping someone here had a link to a diagram or pictures of one taken apart, etc.

I can just buy a bunch of parts and figure it out but that's not a lot of fun.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Gary Karr

If you want to take your '28 Model A back to original on the headlight and tail lamp looms with all of the correct sockets and switches, it can be done. You need the single bulb reflectors and an early two-position light switch, which uses the early round bakelite plate. Neither are reproduced. The best loom to use with these is from Sacramento Vintage. Trying to use a later type loom and round plate simply won't work. All of it can be done.

I agree with Gary. Get rid of that rat's nest and put in a new harness from SVF.
Bert's in Denver might have the correct switch and plate for the 1928 harness.

[psimet]

So I finally got around to installing the harness I bought. I spiced in the sealed headlights using new wires - as well as the taillight. New stop switch, etc.

So I finish everything up last night and I am installing the battery. The second I make the final connection the horn starts blaring. My wife told me the lights were on as well. The light switch was in the off position. Lightswitch and horn button look like they are pushed slightly up off the steering wheel.

The plate on the harness looked exactly like the one I pulled out and everything fit.

I was tired, covered in 93 yr old dirt, and drenched from the sweltering heat. So I just disconnected it and decided to leave the troubleshooting for another day.

Does anyone have any ideas where to start troubleshooting?

FWIW - the horn sounded GREAT! Way better than it has. My wife now pokes fun at me by going, "AAAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOGAH"

[psimet]

Here’s the disc - original on the left.