Can't get the front brake drum on

[California Charlie]

Hi Guys, My Model A Front End Restoration has been fighting me tooth and nail.

Here's the latest I would appreciate some input on:

Front Brake Restoration:
I Used the original car's brake drums, backing plates, and installed new linings on the brake shoes.
-I Installed Flathead Ted's Brake Floater Kit
-I Used the Diablo A's Instructional DVD for the installation of the Brake Floater Kit. Everything looked pretty good as it should according to the DVD.
-I've got to the point of putting on the brake drum to make further adjustments and the drum won't go on.
-I did not arc the shoes to the drum, but even without doing that the shoes seems to be positioned really close to the drums.
-I used the brake centering tool I purchased and that did not help the matter.
What could I possibly be missing??
Thanks everyone for their help with this matter.
I may have to give up my backyard mechanic title.

[1931 flamingo]

Is the adjustment backed all the way off?? Are the linings oversize?? Are bthe leading/trailing edges chamfered??
Paul in CT

[California Charlie]

Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo

Is the adjustment backed all the way off?? Are the linings oversize?? Are bthe leading/trailing edges chamfered??
Paul in CT

The adjustment is backed all the way off.
The linings are not oversized.
If you're referring to the linings having a tapered edge. They are tapered.

[Jacksonlll]

It is important to have the shoes match the drum. Find a grinder.

[lindy williams]

Try disconnecting the brake rod from the operating lever to assure that the brake is completely retracted.

[Tom Wesenberg]

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Are the brake adjustment shafts installed correctly?
The ones in the picture above need to be flipped to match the wedge taper.

[lindy williams]

The brake adjusting shafts are correct in the picture. The roller pins are reversed from their normal position, but this is correct for the Flathead Ted modification since the roller pins do not ride on the tracks like stock.

[old victoria]

lindy, the tapers are backwards as tom said, could just be set in the drums for the picture.

[Y-Blockhead]

I agree with Lindy. The brake adjusting shafts are correct in relation to the roller pins using the FHT's floaters IF they are installed on the backing plate correctly. That picture is very misleading...

[wmws]

The picture is misleading because we are looking at it from the wrong side. The adjustment shafts are in backwards.

[California Charlie]

Originally Posted by lindy williams

Try disconnecting the brake rod from the operating lever to assure that the brake is completely retracted.

Lindy, I haven't attached the brake rods yet.

[California Charlie]

I'll get some more photos of the brake installation and perhaps someone may see something obvious that I'm missing. Thanks so far you all those who have provided their input.

[larrys40]

Originally Posted by lindy williams

The brake adjusting shafts are correct in the picture. The roller pins are reversed from their normal position, but this is correct for the Flathead Ted modification since the roller pins do not ride on the tracks like stock.

Gentlemen, I believe Lindy is correct. Flathead Teds does not use the track for the shoes to ride on the roller pin head. Normally the heads would be in riding on the tracks. So in this case he is correct. I'm not really a fan of doing the FHT's floaters as a well restored stock setup works very well. I do them all the time.

I do agree that arcing the shoes is important. Make sure the wedge is backed all the way out ( so the shoes do fall in a recess on the wedge) and you might use a centering tool to see where you are at. If your drums are not much oversize you could have an issue getting them on. They have brake gauges with ears on them to use internal for the drum and external for the shoes. You might try checking your circumference.

I use a .007 feeler gauge as I like for the shoes to fit the drum tight with full contact at all points.
Larry Shepard

[Mike V. Florida]

There are two thicknesses of brake linings sold. Thick for worn drums and thin for new.

thick-service-brake-lining

standard-service-brake-lining

[California Charlie]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

There are two thicknesses of brake linings sold. Thick for worn drums and thin for new.

thick-service-brake-lining

standard-service-brake-lining

I checked the installed linings and they are 3/16" thick and not the 1/4" oversize linings. I'm thinking I may have to find someone to arc the linings after reviewing all that has been said.

[wmws]

If they are 3/16 they should go on without arcing. Make sure the rolers are in the arched thing that FHT provides and the adjustment shafts are oriented correctly to the floating wedge adjuster.

[California Charlie]

Originally Posted by wmws

If they are 3/16 they should go on without arcing. Make sure the rolers are in the arched thing that FHT provides and the adjustment shafts are oriented correctly to the floating wedge adjuster.

Thanks, I'll double check things and see if I've missed something with the brake installation. Perhaps take some more photos if all appears Okay with the install and the drum still won't go on.

[California Charlie]

After about the 10th time of taking everything apart I'm managed to slip on the brake drum, but still with all the adjustments backed off the drum is dragging against the linings. The drum is not free wheeling and because of this I can't proceed forward with the adjustment.

I guess my next step would be to have the linings arced to the drum. I've included some more photos of this project work in case someone else may see something else I don't see which is currently making my life difficult. Are there any known national parts house chains which may arc the drums for me? Thanks again everyone, I'm certain down the restoration road I may have some more questions.

[Bob C]

I did a search and there is mention of grinding away some of the lower edge of
the centering plate if it is hitting the shoe.
See top right of page 4 http://www.ocmafc.com/techarticles/BrakeFloaters-2.pdf

Bob

[4port]

Have you measured the drum inside diameter. That looks like a cast iron repo drum. I know the Plasmeter cast iron drums had extra meat on them that needs to be trued up in a lathe after they are mounted to the hubs to make them concentric. Also the hub flange should be faced before installing the drum on the hub. Then arc the shoes. Not sure about the Mel Gloss drums, are they undersized also for truing. I still have 2 sets of Plasmeters on the shelf, no need for the Gloss drums yet.

[California Charlie]

Originally Posted by Bob C

I did a search and there is mention of grinding away some of the lower edge of
the centering plate if it is hitting the shoe.
See top right of page 4 http://www.ocmafc.com/techarticles/BrakeFloaters-2.pdf

Bob

Yes Bob, you're right about the issue of perhaps grinding away some of the lower edge of the centering plate, however I didn't have to do that in this case. All Flathead Ted's parts appeared to fit nicely.

I'm hoping the arcing of the drums to the linings will then give me the clearance to allow my drums to freewheel so that I can begin the adjustment process.

[California Charlie]

Originally Posted by Bob C

I did a search and there is mention of grinding away some of the lower edge of
the centering plate if it is hitting the shoe.
See top right of page 4 http://www.ocmafc.com/techarticles/BrakeFloaters-2.pdf

Bob

You're right about the grinding away of the lower edge if the centering plate is hitting the shoe, but that was not the case with this installation.

[California Charlie]

Originally Posted by 4port

Have you measured the drum inside diameter. That looks like a cast iron repo drum. I know the Plasmeter cast iron drums had extra meat on them that needs to be trued up in a lathe after they are mounted to the hubs to make them concentric. Also the hub flange should be faced before installing the drum on the hub. Then arc the shoes. Not sure about the Mel Gloss drums, are they undersized also for truing. I still have 2 sets of Plasmeters on the shelf, no need for the Gloss drums yet.

The drums are the ones which were on the car which looked good to use during this restoration. They worked fine when the car was being driven, so I had no cause to think they were the problem issue. I do have another set of drums which I just may try one to see the fit.

[Art Newland]

Originally Posted by 4port

Have you measured the drum inside diameter. That looks like a cast iron repo drum. I know the Plasmeter cast iron drums had extra meat on them that needs to be trued up in a lathe after they are mounted to the hubs to make them concentric. Also the hub flange should be faced before installing the drum on the hub. Then arc the shoes. Not sure about the Mel Gloss drums, are they undersized also for truing. I still have 2 sets of Plasmeters on the shelf, no need for the Gloss drums yet.

Randy told me they do a .010 truing up after the hubs are installed.

[wmws]

It looks to me as though the wedge is not all the way up. Do you have too many pills in there? Great pictures. Very clear.

[Al 29Tudor]

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No experience with FHT components, but --
Number 18, pictures 1 and 2, definitely show the large disc holding the rollers off the wedge and not allowing the shoes to retract all the way against the wedge.
I've had to grind material off that disc so the rollers can retract all the way.
Al

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Al 29Tudor

No experience with FHT components, but --
Number 18, pictures 1 and 2, definitely show the large disc holding the rollers off the wedge and not allowing the shoes to retract all the way against the wedge.
I've had to grind material off that disc so the rollers can retract all the way.
Al

I agree, and if it was mine I'd take that disc to my lathe and trim it down.

[denniskliesen]

You need to look at the Flathead Centering plate and make sure it isn't cockeyed. When the anchor bolt is tightened, look to compare how it is located in relation to the old centering plate pins. Also look to be sure the inside rollers are in contact with the centering plate. The reason for turning the pins around is to keep the pin head off the old centering plate and let the roller itself contact the new centering plate. Trouble is the cotter pin can catch on the old plate and keep the shoe from retracting all the way. If it isn't too much trouble take the shoes off and take a picture of the anchor bolt with the new centering plate and wedge tightened and in place.

[JBill]

In picture #4, it looks like the brake actuating arm is pulled back at least 15 degrees rather than sitting forward about that much. Or maybe things just aren't positioned where they will be eventually. Grasping at straws here.

[burner31]

Remove all pills if any. Then see