New reproduction hydraulic brakes??????

[steve hackel]

HAS ANYONE BOUGHT A SET OF THE NEW 12X2 REAR BACKING PLATES, HUBS & DRUMS? If so, what are your thoughts... how well do they fit, how well do they work? I need rears for my model A and this seems to be ther easiest solution. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Steve

[Richard (EV8G)]

IF you are referring to Bendix brakes, putting them on the rear of a Model A is
"problematic" due to the usual issues with the spring hangers/shock mounts,
AND the fact that the wheel cylinders on Bendix brakes are significantly LOWER down than on the Ford hydraulics. Dave Wilton at one time offered a kit that spaced the brake plates outward on the axle housing about 1/2" AND spaced the (new) drum outward accordingly on the (new) rear hub; also required longer studs. The spacing out of the brake plate moved the wheel cylinder outward enough to have access to connect the rear hydraulic line. He stopped making the kit quite awhile back. (For Model A's, even installing the Ford Lockheed brakes on the rear is more difficult than doing the same on 32-38's, due to the above AND other issues.)

BTW, the 1-3/4"shoes are more than adequate on early Fords.

[37fatfender]

I put a set of 41 Lincoln/Zephyr on the rear of my 40, used my old drums. They went on like without any problem what so ever. A direct fit.......bleed and adjusted them. Haven't look back yet..........!

[Andy]

I would think there would be interference with the wheel cyl. and the spring perch. The old trick was to move the wheel cylinder to the bottom!!!!
This takes some thought.
You rotate the backing plate 180º so the cylinder is on the bottom. Then move it to the other side of the car. This puts the emergency brake tubes facing forward again.
Take the wheel cylinders out and turn them over so the bleeder is up again. The short shoe is put on the rear and the long one in front. IE, reverse them.
There still may be interference but only with sheemetal. Not working parts.

[1931 flamingo]

I believe on the HAMB someone (?) has detailed pics of install on model A rear, where they rotated and cut backing plate (39-48) new plates should be similar. Hope this helps.
Paul in CT

[Richard (EV8G)]

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Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo

I believe on the HAMB someone (?) has detailed pics of install on model A rear, where they rotated and cut backing plate (39-48) new plates should be similar. Hope this helps.
Paul in CT

As per my post above, the installation of 39-42 or 46-48 Ford Lockheed brakes on a Model A rear is a different challenge than is installing Lincoln-Bendix brakes (either originals or new repro's) for the reasons stated.

[296 V8]

Hyd's on A was covered
here>>>http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4603

[HemiDeuce]

Originally Posted by Richard (EV8G)

IF you are referring to Bendix brakes, putting them on the rear of a Model A is
"problematic" due to the usual issues with the spring hangers/shock mounts,
AND the fact that the wheel cylinders on Bendix brakes are significantly LOWER down than on the Ford hydraulics. Dave Wilton at one time offered a kit that spaced the brake plates outward on the axle housing about 1/2" AND spaced the (new) drum outward accordingly on the (new) rear hub; also required longer studs. The spacing out of the brake plate moved the wheel cylinder outward enough to have access to connect the rear hydraulic line. He stopped making the kit quite awhile back. (For Model A's, even installing the Ford Lockheed brakes on the rear is more difficult than doing the same on 32-38's, due to the above AND other issues.)

BTW, the 1-3/4"shoes are more than adequate on early Fords.

I have a set of these spacers that I bought from Dave Wilton that I do not need, if interested send me a pm.
HemiDeuce.

[steve hackel]

Hello - I an not too sure just exactly what these spacers are, but I am interested...?... do you have a picture, or can you give me your # and I will call you when it is good for you. thanks, steve 708-687-4183

[HemiDeuce]

Originally Posted by steve hackel

Hello - I an not too sure just exactly what these spacers are, but I am interested...?... do you have a picture, or can you give me your # and I will call you when it is good for you. thanks, steve 708-687-4183

Steve, I'll take a picture and post it tomorrow, then we can talk.
HemiDeuce.

[Fred A]

Since the need for more and better brakes is mostly a matter of improving the front, use of the common Lockheed brakes on the rear of converted Models A solves two problems(or more) at one time. Model A tends to lock the rear brakes prematurely while the fronts are often less that needed for hard fast driving. Don't use Bendix type brakes on the rear unless the fronts are something equal or better. Truly the dumbest brakes, short of badly done mechanicals would be use of Bendix on the rear and Lockheed on the front. Good Luck: Fred A

[HemiDeuce]

Originally Posted by steve hackel

Hello - I an not too sure just exactly what these spacers are, but I am interested...?... do you have a picture, or can you give me your # and I will call you when it is good for you. thanks, steve 708-687-4183

Steve, here are a couple of pictures of the Lincoln Brake Adapters, they are new, never used. The bolt pattern is 3 3/8" x 3 3/8", they are 1/2" thick and come with Grade 8 hardware.
If you are interested, PM me for my phone number and we can discuss these.
HemiDeuce.

[steve hackel]

Thanks - now that I see what they are, what are they? Do they go between the rear axle flanges & the backing plates? Ok. educate me, I am all ears. Give me your phone # and I will call you when you are available. thanks, Steve Tues. 8pm

[Fred A]

I'm not seeing the spacer for the drums. They would have five holes to fit between the hub and drum. They also look like the spacers made for Dave adapting '42-'48 Zephyr fronts to Ford spindles. I need a set of those. Helps to start off knowing what you are doing to not be led down the wrong path. Caveat.. Fred A

[CWPASADENA]

Originally Posted by Fred A

They also look like the spacers made for Dave adapting '42-'48 Zephyr fronts to Ford spindles. Caveat.. Fred A

That is what I was thinking.

Chris

[steve hackel]

Hi Fred A. - My current plans are for a dropped front axle with disc brakes (5x5 1/2") so I can run 16" Kelsey wheels (repros) and an A' quick change with the new reproduction brakes that are on the market. It's been 40 years since I did any of this stuff, so a lot of unanswered questions will probably be in order..... Way back when I had several OHV engines, a DOHC sprint car, and many many heads that were always available along with winfields and hydraulic brakes. Since I only plan on reliving my past one more time, I truly want the brakes correct and I want to enjoy it too. Thanks for your help, regards Steve

[Richard (EV8G)]

Consider Lincoln-Bendix on the front; plenty good brakes and keeps the vintage look. Also can use early Ford hubs/drums <the new USA drums are extra thick; good for 12.090" vs. 12.060" on the originals. Not sure the wire wheels will clear disc brake calipers? without doing something that will mess up the front end geometry??? They WILL fit the new drums.

Mounting early Ford hydraulics on an A rear involves clearance issues, so might as well use the Lincoln Bendix IF you can come up with the right spacers. The ones in the photo are NOT them...as mentioned by others. I have the correct longer studs that you will need, which press into the hub holes and extend through the drum spacer and drum center, and still have enough threads for proper lug nut installation. As I recall, the spacers for the brake plates are about 1/2" thick and the spacers for the drums are the same thickness. Made in aluminum, but could also use steel. Will widen the rear track 1".

[steve hackel]

Hi Richard - I tried a 16" kelsey on an early ford PU truck a few years ago and they cleared the calipers with lots of room ( it cleared the 15" he had) . Finding the things I would like to "have" versus the things I am able to locate are usually quite different. I have not been able to locate any late Ford rear brakes for over 7 months since I started this project and the only ones everyone keeps warning me to buy are the self centering 46-48 styles. There have been none in Hemmings, none on Ebay, and none on here. For just that reason I had settled on the reproductions, considering that they are available today or even next month. To everyone who has spent time typing out opinions and information, I truly appreciate their effort.... I also thank you for yours

[Rem]

While we are on the subject of repro brakes, I have a set of the Lincoln-style drums (MT ones from Mac's), and need to get suitable studs. I mailed Mac's a week ago but haven't had a reply yet - their catalog says to use #68-1107 or #68-1107-F for their other repro drums, but don't say what to use with the Lincolns.

[Richard (EV8G)]

I am a dealer for Mac's AND M/T car products and use/sell the new drums.

Original-type studs that must be swaged over SHOULD NOT be used with the new drums with cast centers. Doing so can cause stress that can lead to cracking of the drum center. Furthermore, the cast centers are thicker than the stamped steel original centers, so original studs will be too short to swage anyway AND would be too short for proper lug nut installation.

The installation procedure for the drums that mount on the OUTSIDE of the hub
(40 Ford style) is the same regardless of drum style HOWEVER we have never used the studs that Mac's offers. Instead, we use modern SERRATED studs that press into the hub flange only; they only "pass through" the holes in the drum. Installation involves grinding a "flat" on the stud head to bear against the existing original boss or ring on the reverse side of the original hubs. This not only allows them to clear, but also makes 100% sure that they cannot rotate once installed. The hole sizes in the front vs. the rear hubs is different AND the front hub flanges are thicker than the rears, so we use different studs in the fronts than the rears. Also, it is necessary to "resize" the hub holes to accept the new studs AND to resize the holes in the rear drums, as the rear studs are larger diameter at the shoulder. The end result is that the drum may be removed without removing the hub. When we assemble the hub/drum, we stamp registration marks on them so that if the drums are removed, they can be installed in the same position. We also MACHINE the drums while installed ON THE HUB to be sure that all is concentric. Failure to do this can result in pulsating brakes if the drum shoe surface is not on-center with the hub. The new studs are also LONGER where it matters, allowing proper installation of the lug nuts, even with the bolt-on Wire Wheel Support Rings that are required when using Ford or KH wire wheels with the new drums.

Because we have never used the studs that Mac's suggests, I do not know if they are such that they meet the above requirements???