The Ford Barn

twenty8tudor · 05-20-2012, 09:45 AM

I just picked up a 1928 RPU and going through and fixing a lot of the odds and ends to get it back up and on the road again. The guy i bought it from has not drove it in around 5 years. Ill start by saying im not overly familiar with the original motors in these things. I went to drain the old oil out and noticed a lot of what i would call sediment in the dran plug. my thought was to drop the pan and give the pan a good cleaning out. my only question is that am i asking for more issues and what are things to look and watch for if i do venture into that. Any info is greatly helpful.

Jim Parker Toronto · 05-20-2012, 09:59 AM

Dropping the oil pan and cleaning is the way to go.I would also take the side cover off and clean in there as well. If there are "issues", you want to find them now, but it should not be problem. Welcome to the Barn... Jim

twenty8tudor · 05-20-2012, 10:02 AM

Thanks for the advice! i didnt think about the side cover not a bad idea. I would like to get this thing on the road and leave it on the road not on and off the road. Thanks again! any certian things to make sure and look for while i have that stuff off?

Purdy Swoft · 05-20-2012, 10:43 AM

I wouldn't consider a little sediment in the drain plug a problem. You state that you are not familiar with the model A engine. It is a difficult job fitting the oil pan gasket to the block so that the rear tabs properly fit into the sides of the rear main cap . The rear oil pan cork seal must be fitted to the rear main cap with a tight fit on top of the rear gasket tabs. The front rope seal is also a tight difficult fit. Professional mechanics have difficulty fitting the gaskets and seals in a model A engine with the engine in the car. Its not an easy job as some may think. You will have to deal with the oil pump, because it will fall out when you remove the oil pan. If you do manage to remove and replace the pan while working under the car, will you really be better off if it leaks oil??? I've owned and worked on model A's for over 50 years, save yourself some grief, don't attempt removing the oil pan with the engine in the car. I would just drain the oil and add four quarts of good quality detergent oil. I change mine about every five hundred miles, The only time that I will remove the oil pan is if the engine is out. I can do a good job that doesn't leak with the engine upside down on my engine stand.

Benson · 05-20-2012, 10:52 AM

When cleaning the valve chamber you want to be careful that you do not push sediment into the main bearing and cam feed holes located in the floor of the chamber. Main holes are about 3/16ths or so and cam holes are smaller.

If the sediment plugs these holes, the bearings will be damaged. Big $$$...

1928 engines may not have a cam hole in rear. Some holes were added by a Service Bulletin procedure.

Best method is to locate the holes before scrapeing any sediment,
temporarily plug the holes. EDIT: OR better yet ... leave well enough alone and drive the car.

Don't forget to remove the plugs when finished.

Old Tech School saying: "If it works ... Do not MESS with it!"

The Army saying used the well known and universal "F" word!!

Purdy Swoft · 05-20-2012, 11:16 AM

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The only way to really clean the oil passages from the valve chamber to the crankshaft and cam, is if the crankshaft and cam are removed. Trying to clean out the valve chamber is almost sure to get sediment in the oil passages . Trying to do a job like this with the engine in the car will probably cause more problems than it will solve. Most learn from their mistakes. Some just take their model A apart and give up when they finally have to admit that they are in WAY over their head and the model A is apart in the floor. I just feel that it is best to just get them running. Drive and get familiar with the model A. Fix little things and learn a bit as you go before diving into something really difficult. Its your car. I've built up a large parts collection by buying or bartering deals with people that had a lot of fun dismantleing their mnodel A.

ericr · 05-20-2012, 11:24 AM

didn't the old timers drain the oil, fill her kerosene, run it, drain it and refill with new oil twice?

twenty8tudor · 05-20-2012, 11:27 AM

those are some good points..thats how the last project i did start with a dent in a bedside of a driving truck.....ended up with a frame on stands and then built from the ground up and a two year build...cause it only a couple more bolts to fix or do this..haha in that case at this point with a sedan project probably best to just drive the truck. any pros/cons on the spin on oil filter add on for the side cover??

Tom Wesenberg · 05-20-2012, 12:41 PM

If you have thick sludge laying on the oil pan bottom, you won't get much out by using diesel or kerosene. I made an oil plug with an air fitting to bubble the diesel and after 30 minutes I drained it and repeated. I did this about 6 times, then dropped the pan after 25 miles and still found almost an inch of hard sludge on the pan bottom.

Great Lakes Greg · 05-20-2012, 12:56 PM

An oil pan drop isn't all that difficult if you don't mind rolling around on the floor for a couple of hours. Yes, the gaskets on each end are a pain, but for the cost of gaskets and a few hours on a weekend, I would find the piece of mind worth it. If you don't have engine pans, you're already a half hour ahead of the job.

05-20-2012, 09:45 AM	#1
twenty8tudor Junior Member Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 15	asking for trouble? should i drop pan? I just picked up a 1928 RPU and going through and fixing a lot of the odds and ends to get it back up and on the road again. The guy i bought it from has not drove it in around 5 years. Ill start by saying im not overly familiar with the original motors in these things. I went to drain the old oil out and noticed a lot of what i would call sediment in the dran plug. my thought was to drop the pan and give the pan a good cleaning out. my only question is that am i asking for more issues and what are things to look and watch for if i do venture into that. Any info is greatly helpful.

05-20-2012, 09:59 AM	#2
Jim Parker Toronto Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,289	Re: asking for trouble? should i drop pan? Dropping the oil pan and cleaning is the way to go.I would also take the side cover off and clean in there as well. If there are "issues", you want to find them now, but it should not be problem. Welcome to the Barn... Jim

05-20-2012, 10:02 AM	#3
twenty8tudor Junior Member Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 15	Re: asking for trouble? should i drop pan? Thanks for the advice! i didnt think about the side cover not a bad idea. I would like to get this thing on the road and leave it on the road not on and off the road. Thanks again! any certian things to make sure and look for while i have that stuff off?

05-20-2012, 10:43 AM	#4
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: asking for trouble? should i drop pan? I wouldn't consider a little sediment in the drain plug a problem. You state that you are not familiar with the model A engine. It is a difficult job fitting the oil pan gasket to the block so that the rear tabs properly fit into the sides of the rear main cap . The rear oil pan cork seal must be fitted to the rear main cap with a tight fit on top of the rear gasket tabs. The front rope seal is also a tight difficult fit. Professional mechanics have difficulty fitting the gaskets and seals in a model A engine with the engine in the car. Its not an easy job as some may think. You will have to deal with the oil pump, because it will fall out when you remove the oil pan. If you do manage to remove and replace the pan while working under the car, will you really be better off if it leaks oil??? I've owned and worked on model A's for over 50 years, save yourself some grief, don't attempt removing the oil pan with the engine in the car. I would just drain the oil and add four quarts of good quality detergent oil. I change mine about every five hundred miles, The only time that I will remove the oil pan is if the engine is out. I can do a good job that doesn't leak with the engine upside down on my engine stand.

05-20-2012, 10:52 AM	#5
Benson Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,597	Re: asking for trouble? should i drop pan? When cleaning the valve chamber you want to be careful that you do not push sediment into the main bearing and cam feed holes located in the floor of the chamber. Main holes are about 3/16ths or so and cam holes are smaller. If the sediment plugs these holes, the bearings will be damaged. Big $$$... 1928 engines may not have a cam hole in rear. Some holes were added by a Service Bulletin procedure. Best method is to locate the holes before scrapeing any sediment, temporarily plug the holes. EDIT: OR better yet ... leave well enough alone and drive the car. Don't forget to remove the plugs when finished. Old Tech School saying: "If it works ... Do not MESS with it!" The Army saying used the well known and universal "F" word!! Last edited by Benson; 05-20-2012 at 12:21 PM.

05-20-2012, 11:16 AM	#6
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: asking for trouble? should i drop pan? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) The only way to really clean the oil passages from the valve chamber to the crankshaft and cam, is if the crankshaft and cam are removed. Trying to clean out the valve chamber is almost sure to get sediment in the oil passages . Trying to do a job like this with the engine in the car will probably cause more problems than it will solve. Most learn from their mistakes. Some just take their model A apart and give up when they finally have to admit that they are in WAY over their head and the model A is apart in the floor. I just feel that it is best to just get them running. Drive and get familiar with the model A. Fix little things and learn a bit as you go before diving into something really difficult. Its your car. I've built up a large parts collection by buying or bartering deals with people that had a lot of fun dismantleing their mnodel A.

05-20-2012, 11:24 AM	#7
ericr Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 1,542	Re: asking for trouble? should i drop pan? didn't the old timers drain the oil, fill her kerosene, run it, drain it and refill with new oil twice?

05-20-2012, 11:27 AM	#8
twenty8tudor Junior Member Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 15	Re: asking for trouble? should i drop pan? those are some good points..thats how the last project i did start with a dent in a bedside of a driving truck.....ended up with a frame on stands and then built from the ground up and a two year build...cause it only a couple more bolts to fix or do this..haha in that case at this point with a sedan project probably best to just drive the truck. any pros/cons on the spin on oil filter add on for the side cover??

05-20-2012, 12:41 PM	#9
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: asking for trouble? should i drop pan? If you have thick sludge laying on the oil pan bottom, you won't get much out by using diesel or kerosene. I made an oil plug with an air fitting to bubble the diesel and after 30 minutes I drained it and repeated. I did this about 6 times, then dropped the pan after 25 miles and still found almost an inch of hard sludge on the pan bottom.

05-20-2012, 12:56 PM	#10
Great Lakes Greg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,369	Re: asking for trouble? should i drop pan? An oil pan drop isn't all that difficult if you don't mind rolling around on the floor for a couple of hours. Yes, the gaskets on each end are a pain, but for the cost of gaskets and a few hours on a weekend, I would find the piece of mind worth it. If you don't have engine pans, you're already a half hour ahead of the job.