Roadster Deluxe top originality questions?

[roll of the dices]

Hi Everyone,

Hope all the fathers are having a great Father's day.
This is weekend I bought a deluxe top for my '30 Roadster. I willll mostly be using it for templates and will be stitching and installing my own top. First time ever doing both, so we'll see how it turns out.

As I am studying the top, the panels, and how it was put together a few interesting things jump at me and wondering if someone can give me some insight as to what I am looking at. Is this the way it was done originally?

Here it goes...

All the tacks look original, no staples, and there are no other holes on the wood bows, so I assume it hasn't been re-covered.
When I look at the top pads, they look completely different than what I see supplied by vendors today. I see a piece canvas which seems to be re-inforced with a look-like jute material, sorry don't know what is called.
There are no notches on the wood bows for these pads to lay flat, as the videos I have watched indicate to do.
I see that now days they use a pad that is folded on both sides and top stitched with padding material in between.

The wood bows, are wrapped in a fabric tape like material, almost like an old hockey stick. The bands that hold the rear window opened, are nailed first, and then wrapped around with this tape. The taping is done from top iron to top iron only. The center tape is same color as top (tan) and the side is dark (black)
Nowadays, I don't see the '30-'31 wood bows wrapped. I see '28-'29 are covered.

The windshield flap is a flat piece of canvas, wide enough to created a loop on top of the header, when snap to the windshield. New kits look like they have a loop of canvas along the windshield top already sawn as part of it. Same purpose, I assume, different style.

The rear window, the center panel sits behind the side panels. There is no channel created with canvas on the side panels to fit the side of the rear window inside of, or a key like cutout on the top near the wood bow, as I see new kits have.

The front wood header has and ink stamping in the inside of it, it reads "kiln Dried" Would original bows be stamped as such?
Gave me the impression someone went to a lumber yard and got a piece of lumber to shape a new header.

Thank you in advance. Hopefully the pictures help show what I am talking about.

[rotorwrench]

You mention a deluxe top so I have to assume that this is a deluxe roadster.

Your description follows the MAFCA How to Restore series book volume 6 relatively closely for the 40B roadster. The fabric tape on the center and main bows is an exception. The indication there is that they were uncovered. The header or front bow seems to have been covered on some and not on others but it seems to have been using top material for that. Nothing surprises me when differences arise on these old cars. There were a lot of different assembly plants and most followed the same line but there are always exceptions. Maybe another owner or restorer can shed more light.

Characteristics of the snaps and other trim hardware will tell a lot of information. Incorrect parts will generally indicate a previous top replacement. The original top material seems to have been a three layer type with a layer of a rubber material being sandwiched between the two canvas material layers. Color could be a light olive to tan on top but after 90+ years it may be hard to tell. The inner layer is said to have been light brown.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

My vote is it is likely a 1960s reproduction top and bows. My prints show the recess cut on #2 & #3 bow, and the binding looks incorrect. My notes (-from Marco's posts years ago) show the interior lining should be Olive Drab in color as the outside. The front header bow should be wrapped in the same Olive Drab inner liner material. Others varnished oak. I cannot see the padding enough to tell.

[rotorwrench]

Cutting the recesses for the pads will make for a nice smooth look to the finished top. Anything that is on top of the bare bow will show. Ford was picky about fit and finish from all information I've read so I always wonder if some "original tops" were in fact original. The How to Restore book Volume 6 still leaves unanswered questions for a lot of folks concerning the 40B roadster.

[Fred A]

Are we certain that it is truly a deluxe top? Fred A

[gdmn852]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Hello,standard were for the most part black painted steel with tacking inserts,on a 1930 31 the standard top is similar to the 28 29 top with a y type bow on each side, and also slightly higher.Originally used black cross grain material.

[roll of the dices]

Thank you all for your time and feedback. I do have a deluxe top, based on the shape of the top irons and wood bows.
After looking at my top closely, I am now sure that it was recovered at some point. I took it apart and the from bow looks home made, which will explained the writing on it. The middle and back bow were covered with some time of fabric tape, i am assuming for esthetic reasons only. I believe those bows are original.
It must have been re-covered a long time ago, as no staples were used.

The top irons are original with a part number on the front of them and so is the rear window. Top irons were repainted black. Whatever paint they used it is supper hard, even with sand blasting I am having a difficult/slow time to remove the coating. The main support bar shows it was chrome at some point.

I do have have a few more questions...hoping someone can answer

What time of snap is at the far end on the tack strip, at each end. It looks like a male snap, I am assuming it is for the side curtains to snap on; however, what does the back of that snap looks like and what does the part that goes in the tack strip looks like? I've been looking at the different Vendors but can't find anything similar in their catalogs.

Also, at the bottom (inside) of the rear window I see a triangular piece with what appears to be two female snaps, at the bottom of it; however, most pictures I can find online don't have it. What is it for? Are those snaps, and if so, what/where do they snap to? Do all roadsters are suppose to have this piece?
Is it just sandwiched with to the window frame and fabric or stitched to the opening of the window?

Thank you again.

[Nosetime]

I told you it was thought to be original! Maybe not as it rolled off the production floor, but looks like you have things well in hand, Good luck! Greg

[rotorwrench]

They used a single durable stud at the very end there on each side of the tack strip. It is for the rear side curtain piece in that corner. The rest are all either singe cinch or double cinch types. The socket that is mounted to the top material in that corner also has the stud on the outside so it's a double snap set up.

The best explanation that I've read about for the curtain flap is that it is intended to be used to hold the rear bow down while snapping the wind seal on the front windshield. There should be a narrow J-hook on both that flap at the bottom and on the center area of the rear package tray for those parts to hook together during the process of putting the top up. This in what Lee Atherton of LeBaron Bonney stated anyway. Whether it works or not is another question.

If they used durable snap sockets instead then there would have to be durable studs on the package tray edge to correspond.

[700rpm]

Having owned and driven a Model A since 1961 I’ve heard about every one if the common questions, but one of the oddest ones was "how much does it weigh?" I wanted to ask, "Why do you want to know?" But I didn’t, I just smiled and told him "about 2000 lbs". I guess I passed the test ‘cuz he smiled in return and walked away.

[roll of the dices]

Originally Posted by Nosetime

I told you it was thought to be original! Maybe not as it rolled off the production floor, but looks like you have things well in hand, Good luck! Greg

Thank you Greg! It is going to look great when all done.

[roll of the dices]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

They used a single durable stud at the very end there on each side of the tack strip. It is for the rear side curtain piece in that corner. The rest are all either singe cinch or double cinch types. The socket that is mounted to the top material in that corner also has the stud on the outside so it's a double snap set up.

The best explanation that I've read about for the curtain flap is that it is intended to be used to hold the rear bow down while snapping the wind seal on the front windshield. There should be a narrow J-hook on both that flap at the bottom and on the center area of the rear package tray for those parts to hook together during the process of putting the top up. This in what Lee Atherton of LeBaron Bonney stated anyway. Whether it works or not is another question.

If they used durable snap sockets instead then there would have to be durable studs on the package tray edge to correspond.

That double stud still got me puzzled. I think I can picture it in my mind but I can't find one for sale. Maybe I am looking for the wrong thing
Thank you for the clarification on the rear window. I am going to look closer at the pictures I have.

[Nosetime]

Double stud is longer to accommodate the two layers of top material and their grommets. I can take a pic of the complete set of studs and text to you. Brattons had them in stock as of a few weeks ago

[rotorwrench]

A good place to find the Dot Durable stuff is in the Restoration Specialties PDF catalog. You would need the stud head part number XB10372. A socket part number XB10224 and the tooling to set these parts would also be needed.
https://www.restorationspecialties.c...s/page_173.pdf

[roll of the dices]

Thank you so much! It feels so good when the light bulb finally goes off :-)
With the part number provided I started researching and found out they call it a "gypsy stud" and Sailrite has a good bunch of videos in youtube on how they work and how to install them.

Thank you!