The Ford Barn

TomIII · 05-22-2021, 04:28 PM

had my '30 on stands for the winter...it's converted to hydraulic brakes...pedal went to the floor today... topped off the reservoir, still nothing... any ideas?

Model A Ron · 05-22-2021, 04:35 PM

Do you still have your old parts for mechanical brakes? You may want to go back to mechanical.

Neshkoro · 05-22-2021, 04:51 PM

Hydraulic brakes on a Model A is no different than any other car. If there was fluid and and you had brakes and now there's no fluid, you have a leak. Look for a puddle. If there's no puddle, it could be a defective master cylinder. The piston seal could be bad and its slipping past the fluid. Start with the master cylinder. Check for fluid. If it's low, add fluid and see if the pedal comes up. Then check for leaks at each wheel cylinder. Process of elimination. Maybe they just need to be bled to get the air out.

Jim in Wisconsin · 05-22-2021, 06:41 PM

Henry Ford would smile and say "The safety of steel, from pedal to wheel".

Patrick L. · 05-22-2021, 06:55 PM

Sounds like air, bleed the system.

McMimmcs · 05-22-2021, 07:28 PM

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Air or a leak. Check for a leak first.

mass A man · 05-22-2021, 10:11 PM

As we don't know whom or how well the conversion to hydraulics went and you don't see or SMELL a puddle, check to see if the rod from pedal-to-master cyl. fell out or isn't engaging. Other than that, if it not a spongy pedal, but "all the way to the floor" sounds like a master cylinder failure.

700rpm · 05-22-2021, 10:13 PM

Hydraulic brake coversions are not inherently or automatically an improvement over the mechanicals, and the OP further confirms this.

Model A Ron · 05-22-2021, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim in Wisconsin

Henry Ford would smile and say "The safety of steel, from pedal to wheel".

To each their own but I just do not see the need for juice brakes on a Model A. Its not hard to stop at all and I have locked the brakes up without much difficulty. Once your skidding what difference or advantage would hydraulic brakes give you?

steve hackel · 05-22-2021, 11:01 PM

Whether or not someone converts their model A to hydraulics from mechanical, has nothing to do with the skid factor - but rather what size tires you are running and what size is the contact of the tire to the pavement. IF - AND I DID SAY IF you are running larger / wider tires with a larger footprint or contact pattern, then the original mechanical brakes will not provide enough force to lock the brakes. Stop comparing apples to oranges - stop comparing hydraulics to Fords ORIGINAL mechanicals , when you do not interject the size of the tires your running, or planning on running on your model A ! ��
This topic continually comes up and the
question(s) are neither fully asked, nor answered.
What size tires are you running - stock size tires and mechanical brakes are just fantastic.
Mechanical brakes and LARGE CONTACT foot print tires do not work, because if they did then Ford would have never bothered to go hydraulic.
Please, for God's sake, put this topic to rest.

Model A Ron · 05-22-2021, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve hackel

Whether or not someone converts their model A to hydraulics from mechanical, has nothing to do with the skid factor - but rather what size tires you are running and what size is the contact of the tire to the pavement. IF - AND I DID SAY IF you are running larger / wider tires with a larger footprint or contact pattern, then the original mechanical brakes will not provide enough force to lock the brakes. Stop comparing apples to oranges - stop comparing hydraulics to Fords ORIGINAL mechanicals , when you do not interject the size of the tires your running, or planning on running on your model A ! ��
This topic continually comes up and the
question(s) are neither fully asked, nor answered.
What size tires are you running - stock size tires and mechanical brakes are just fantastic.
Mechanical brakes and LARGE CONTACT foot print tires do not work, because if they did then Ford would have never bothered to go hydraulic.
Please, for God's sake, put this topic to rest.

Once your skidding what difference or advantage would hydraulic brakes give you with stock wheels?......the answer is no advantage with stock wheels. Thank you

Bob Johnson · 05-23-2021, 12:16 AM

Mechanical advantage is mechanical advantage. The pressure on the brake shoes is dependent on the pressure on the brake pedal and the ratio of the pedal movement to the shoe movement. It does not matter if you are using metal rods and levers or fluid and pistons. However the size of the brake drums and shoes and the materials used for the drums and shoe linings will make a difference. Mechanical brakes can have a problem with worn out or improper parts. Hydraulic brake can have problems with leaks or worn out parts. If you believe that mechanical brakes are better use them. If you believe hydraulic brakes a better use them. But whatever you use make sure they are in top condition.

Bob

katy · 05-23-2021, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomIII

had my '30 on stands for the winter...it's converted to hydraulic brakes...pedal went to the floor today... topped off the reservoir, still nothing... any ideas?

Will the brakes "pump up"?

Chris Haynes · 05-23-2021, 12:20 PM

I love my hydraulic brakes. 1940-1948 Ford stuff. Installed properly with no modification to body or frame. My engine is well over 40 HP and travels at a good rate of speed. 750x16 tires on the rear. The brakes work well.
A trip for bleeding the brakes. Get a hand held oil can with a pump in it. Fill it with brake fluid. Start at thr back of your car. Fit a piece of hose on the tip of the oil can and slip it over the bleeder valve on your brakes. Pump in fluid until you friend sees it entering the master cylinder. tighten the valve and move to the next one . Do this with all four and you will have no air in the lines and no wasted fluid on the ground.

TomIII · 05-23-2021, 12:24 PM

no... I'm used to having them "pump up", but not this time. Looking for a rebuild kit, but can't find ID for the master cyl.:-(

Patrick L. · 05-23-2021, 12:47 PM

Well, you haven't mentioned much. Try bleeding them first. If you think there is a master issue then disconnect the line, make up one to return the fluid back into the reservoir and keep pumping the heck out of it until you're sure all the air is out. They can be a PITA to get the air out of. But if you really want to remove and rebuild it first, fine. It'll still have to be bled.

Charlie Stephens · 05-23-2021, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomIII

no... I'm used to having them "pump up", but not this time. Looking for a rebuild kit, but can't find ID for the master cyl.:-(

Post a picture of the master cylinder. If you don't know how to post a picture PM me and I will do it for you while you are busy learning how to do it.

Charlie Stephens

1931 flamingo · 05-23-2021, 01:41 PM

39-48 m/cyl is the same. Look for a leak first (IF M/Cyl was low). Get a NEW M/cyl. JMO
Let us know what you find.
Paul in CT

gdmn852 · 05-23-2021, 06:51 PM

From my experience I had this happen on cars that were in storage for the winter.If there are no brakes at all chances are a wheel cylinder is leaking or a bad hose ,fittings or even the steel lines .If you have been pumping brakes to get them to work something is leaking allowing air in the system.The brakes are something I find I use quite often. Let us know what you find .

Gene F · 05-23-2021, 07:43 PM

Where on the car is this master cylinder located?

05-22-2021, 04:35 PM	#2
Model A Ron Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Troutman, NC Posts: 717	Re: converted to hydraulic, no brakes Do you still have your old parts for mechanical brakes? You may want to go back to mechanical.

05-22-2021, 04:51 PM	#3
Neshkoro Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2020 Location: Central Wisconsin Posts: 105	Re: converted to hydraulic, no brakes Hydraulic brakes on a Model A is no different than any other car. If there was fluid and and you had brakes and now there's no fluid, you have a leak. Look for a puddle. If there's no puddle, it could be a defective master cylinder. The piston seal could be bad and its slipping past the fluid. Start with the master cylinder. Check for fluid. If it's low, add fluid and see if the pedal comes up. Then check for leaks at each wheel cylinder. Process of elimination. Maybe they just need to be bled to get the air out.

05-22-2021, 06:41 PM	#4
Jim in Wisconsin Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 247	Re: converted to hydraulic, no brakes Henry Ford would smile and say "The safety of steel, from pedal to wheel".

05-22-2021, 06:55 PM	#5
Patrick L. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Largo Florida Posts: 7,225	Re: converted to hydraulic, no brakes Sounds like air, bleed the system.

05-22-2021, 07:28 PM	#6
McMimmcs Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: Fort Gratiot, Michigan Posts: 2,296	Re: converted to hydraulic, no brakes Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Air or a leak. Check for a leak first.

05-22-2021, 10:11 PM	#7
mass A man Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Danvers, Ma. Posts: 712	Re: converted to hydraulic, no brakes As we don't know whom or how well the conversion to hydraulics went and you don't see or SMELL a puddle, check to see if the rod from pedal-to-master cyl. fell out or isn't engaging. Other than that, if it not a spongy pedal, but "all the way to the floor" sounds like a master cylinder failure.

05-22-2021, 10:13 PM	#8
700rpm Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 5,903	Re: converted to hydraulic, no brakes Hydraulic brake coversions are not inherently or automatically an improvement over the mechanicals, and the OP further confirms this. __________________ Ray Horton, Portland, OR As you go through life, keep your eye on the donut, not the hole.

05-22-2021, 11:01 PM	#10
steve hackel Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: midlothian illinois Posts: 447	Re: converted to hydraulic, no brakes Whether or not someone converts their model A to hydraulics from mechanical, has nothing to do with the skid factor - but rather what size tires you are running and what size is the contact of the tire to the pavement. IF - AND I DID SAY IF you are running larger / wider tires with a larger footprint or contact pattern, then the original mechanical brakes will not provide enough force to lock the brakes. Stop comparing apples to oranges - stop comparing hydraulics to Fords ORIGINAL mechanicals , when you do not interject the size of the tires your running, or planning on running on your model A ! �� This topic continually comes up and the question(s) are neither fully asked, nor answered. What size tires are you running - stock size tires and mechanical brakes are just fantastic. Mechanical brakes and LARGE CONTACT foot print tires do not work, because if they did then Ford would have never bothered to go hydraulic. Please, for God's sake, put this topic to rest.

05-23-2021, 12:16 AM	#12
Bob Johnson Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: California Posts: 979	Re: converted to hydraulic, no brakes Mechanical advantage is mechanical advantage. The pressure on the brake shoes is dependent on the pressure on the brake pedal and the ratio of the pedal movement to the shoe movement. It does not matter if you are using metal rods and levers or fluid and pistons. However the size of the brake drums and shoes and the materials used for the drums and shoe linings will make a difference. Mechanical brakes can have a problem with worn out or improper parts. Hydraulic brake can have problems with leaks or worn out parts. If you believe that mechanical brakes are better use them. If you believe hydraulic brakes a better use them. But whatever you use make sure they are in top condition. Bob

05-23-2021, 12:20 PM	#14
Chris Haynes Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Camarillo, CA and Pine Grove, CA Posts: 2,832	Re: converted to hydraulic, no brakes I love my hydraulic brakes. 1940-1948 Ford stuff. Installed properly with no modification to body or frame. My engine is well over 40 HP and travels at a good rate of speed. 750x16 tires on the rear. The brakes work well. A trip for bleeding the brakes. Get a hand held oil can with a pump in it. Fill it with brake fluid. Start at thr back of your car. Fit a piece of hose on the tip of the oil can and slip it over the bleeder valve on your brakes. Pump in fluid until you friend sees it entering the master cylinder. tighten the valve and move to the next one . Do this with all four and you will have no air in the lines and no wasted fluid on the ground. __________________ 1921 Runabout 1930 Tudor Early 1930 AA Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?

05-23-2021, 12:24 PM	#15
TomIII Junior Member Join Date: May 2021 Posts: 25	Re: converted to hydraulic, no brakes no... I'm used to having them "pump up", but not this time. Looking for a rebuild kit, but can't find ID for the master cyl.:-(

05-23-2021, 12:47 PM	#16
Patrick L. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Largo Florida Posts: 7,225	Re: converted to hydraulic, no brakes Well, you haven't mentioned much. Try bleeding them first. If you think there is a master issue then disconnect the line, make up one to return the fluid back into the reservoir and keep pumping the heck out of it until you're sure all the air is out. They can be a PITA to get the air out of. But if you really want to remove and rebuild it first, fine. It'll still have to be bled.

05-23-2021, 01:41 PM	#18
1931 flamingo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: new britain,ct 06052 Posts: 9,390	Re: converted to hydraulic, no brakes 39-48 m/cyl is the same. Look for a leak first (IF M/Cyl was low). Get a NEW M/cyl. JMO Let us know what you find. Paul in CT

05-23-2021, 06:51 PM	#19
gdmn852 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: Erie Pa Posts: 689	Re: converted to hydraulic, no brakes From my experience I had this happen on cars that were in storage for the winter.If there are no brakes at all chances are a wheel cylinder is leaking or a bad hose ,fittings or even the steel lines .If you have been pumping brakes to get them to work something is leaking allowing air in the system.The brakes are something I find I use quite often. Let us know what you find .

05-23-2021, 07:43 PM	#20
Gene F Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,966	Re: converted to hydraulic, no brakes Where on the car is this master cylinder located?