Engine 12,000,000 George Clayton Article VLNAACA Fairbanks

[darrylkmc]

I was contacted by someone from the Vernon L. Nash Antique Auto Club of Fairbanks regarding February's newsletter. There is a reprint of an old article written by the late Capt. George Clayton about his 1925 Model TT "Old Number 16"
I in fact own the referenced Engine which is stamped 12000000. I have the block and crankshaft.
It is extremely cold here in Fairbanks, so it might take me a while to dig this engine out but I would like to do some checking to see if this is correct. -31 degrees F. right now.
I can email the article if anyone is interested.
[email protected] or send me a private message (PM)
Most of my experience is Model A, however I do have a collection of Model T parts.
I figure that this engine probably started life in a Touring and not a TT, does anyone have a photo of the 12 Millionth Model T?
I could use some pointers with engine Identification so when I examine it I can attempt to nail down an era that this particular engine block was manufactured.
Thanks
Darryl McCollough Fairbanks, Alaska

[Jack Innes]

That number puts it in May or June 1925. There should be a casting date on the left side of the block toward the rear.

[darrylkmc]

Thank you Jack, next time I have the opportunity I will look for the casting date and report back with the results.

Darryl in Fairbanks

[yachtsmanbill]

Dont believe everything you read down the hall... ws

[[email protected]]

Just go ahead and send that block to me. I'll check it and make sure it's a Ford block. Then I'll check the serial #. I'll rebuild it put it in my car and verify it's a good block. Then if you want you can come and see how nice a block you really had. Sound Ok to you? Oh and if anyone asks that block doesn't have any value at all. Really, trust me!

[Jack Innes]

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Bill,

Your yellow engine was assembled late in the day on August 10, 1925. It was one of the 3555 made that day.

Engine 12,000,000 was asembled in the afternoon of June 20, 1925, one of the 7300 made that day.

These figures are from the engine assembly records that do still exist.

[yachtsmanbill]

So what was all that crud down the hall about the factory eliminating those 12 MIL numbers? I didnt get that at all ??? ws

[Jack Innes]

Bill,

I don't know mutch about down the hall, but;

Sometime in 1924 & 1925 there were 22 less engines made than the recors showed. To straighten things up the first 1926 engine number was 12,990,077 but the factory records show 12,990,055 as the first number of 1926. So the 22 vehicle numbers disappeared. --- not all of the 12 MIL numbers!

[yachtsmanbill]

Hey Jack... down the hall is a polite reference to other forums (names witheld) and theres a thred about factory removed block numbers. That place isnt as much fun as here as all those guys own 99+ point cars and beat you up if you even use the wrong sized cotter pins! Heres a blip from the one thred over there... I dont get it. ws

" Ford started stamping the engine number into the frame under the front floorboard from december 1925 at #12,861,044, when 1926 production had run since august.

Actually engine #12,000,000 shouldn't exist as that number anymore according to Ford documents: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/doc26.htm

NOV 18 (1926) Engine production records, Ford Archives
"Motor numbers ground off and replacement numbers: 10,000,000 to 14,548,000; 12,000,000 to 14,546,000; and 13,000,000 to 14,549,000."

[[email protected]]

Hah, the plot thickens!!!

[Jack Innes]

Hah, the plot thickens!!!


Indeed it does! It looks like toward the end of 1926 three engines that had been kept as significant points in production -10,000,000,12,000,000 and 13,000,000 became less significant than income so they were re-numbered in sequence with current production on Nov. 18, 1926 & installed in new cars.

So where did the engine in Alaska come from? Perhaps it was a replacement engine or block that often came with no number stamped,
I have seen those. A new T engine was on the shelf in a tractor dealer's parts room until a couple of years ago near my place in Kansas. Some early combines had model T engines. As usual someone else discovered it before I heard about it.

Maybe no. 12,000,000 was saved out the back door & a "regected" engine stamped to take its place??

Maybe somebody had a "numbers matching" drawer like most current restorers & stamped it to give a bunch of people something to be confused about years later - success??

The casting date may shed some light on the situation.