Overdrive Transmission in a 1952 F1

[Eagle43]

I am in the process of restoring a 1952 F1. I plan to put it back to stock but I'd like to be able to keep up with traffic on the freeway. My understanding is that with the regular 3 speed tranny and a 3.92 rear end, a reasonable cruising speed I can expect would be in the 50 -55 range. I have found an Overdrive Transmission out of I believe a 1950 Lincoln and the seller has a similar one in his own F1. He took me for a ride in his truck and it seems to work pretty well but I though that before I hand over my money and take possession I would ask for advice on this forum. Does anyone have experience putting one of these transmissions in a F1? Are there better options that I should investigate? Is there an automatic overdrive transmission that would also work? Any advice would be much appreciated.

[JSeery]

Just keep in mind it takes modifications to switch out the transmission, don't think it is a bolt-in.

You might run the numbers, the engine is capable of way more than 50-55 mph with a 3.92 rear axle.

MPH = (RPM x Tire Dia) / (Gear Ratio x 336) & RPM = (MPH x Gear Ratio X 336) / Tire Dia

So, for 29 inch dia tires and say 60 mph the engine rpm would be:

RPM = (60 x 3.92 x 336) / 29 = 2,725 rpm, not that high an rpm

With say a 30 inch tire: RPM = (60 x 3.92 x 336) / 30 =2,634 rpm

Or, for 65 mph : RPM = (65 x 3.92 x 336) / 30 = 2,854 rpm

You can play with the number this way and see what is what. Stock flatheads have max torque @ 2200 rpm and max hp @ 3700 rpm.

[rotorwrench]

A Mercury (1949 thru E51) will almost bolt in but is a side shift. It may have a different rear mount. The Lincoln units are the T85 with the R11 overdrive which is also a side shift. They can be adapted but will take a bit more modification since they have the narrow Borg Warner 4-bolt pattern. This would require a bell housing to fit up and may also need some rear mount work.

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

A Mercury (1949 thru E51) will almost bolt in but is a side shift. It may have a different rear mount. The Lincoln units are the T85 with the R11 overdrive which is also a side shift. They can be adapted but will take a bit more modification since they have the narrow Borg Warner 4-bolt pattern. This would require a bell housing to fit up and may also need some rear mount work.

And driveshaft length?

[deuce5wndw]

1952 truck would be a side shift also so would be very doable. I have a Borg Warner overdrive in one of me cars and love it!

[Aarongriffey]

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I have a 51 F1 which of course is also a side shift.
I was advised that the overdrive trans was very hard to get mounted into an F1 so I got a rear end out of a ‘72 F100 that is about 3.5:1.
That makes the old V8 geared perfectly unless I stop on a steel hill with a load like a car on a tow bar or on a trailer.
I often run along the freeway at 65 to 70 MPH.

[Aarongriffey]

The standard transmission in the F1 was column shift 51 and later unless they had the four speed or the heavy duty three speed.
The standard three speed column shift was the car transmission but with open driveshaft. Maybe same as ‘49 n 50 Merc without overdrive.
One small problem with the better ratio rear end is that know a little more than before the vehicle needs a synchromesh first. It won’t always keep pulling after turning a sharp turn going up hill. I have come to a stop and shift into first gear.

[Aarongriffey]

The better ratio F100 rear ends are not a bolt in to the F1.
The spring perches must be cut off and relocated, the shocks no longer match up and of coarse the speedometer is off quite a bit.
Otherwise I am pleased that I did the change.

[wga]

Have you thought of going to an automatic trans? A friend put a GM700R4 behind his 8ba in a 50 woodie. Loved it. Used an adapter for engine to trans mounting, and a column
shift. 2004R works well too. However in your pickup a floor shift would be easy, and there are several aftermarket companies (Lokar) that can provide the shift linkage for that trans on the floor.
Here is a link I found with a quick google search: https://transmissioncenter.net/shop/...tic-fo1000501/
Some discussion on the other site: https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...athead.223261/

[Eagle43]

Thanks everyone for your input. Today I picked up and paid for the overdrive transmission so I guess I'm committed. It's a Borg Warner R-11 and I believe it came out of an early fifties Lincoln. These were an option for cars, the R-10 for small cars and the R-11 for big cars, but not for trucks. Evidently a lot of other manufacturers used their own version of this transmission. It came with the bellhousing so it will bolt right onto the V-8 flathead. I will need to get a different clutch plate and may need to modify the throw out bearing. The mount should line up with the cross member. The driveshaft should fit but I will need a different yoke. It came with the repair manual and Rock Auto stocks the bearings if I need them. I took the cover off and it looks good inside - no visible wear or corrosion. The seller didn't have a lock-out switch but I understand that these are readily available.
Just a little background on the truck. It's a Canadian F1 and they only came with a floor shift and a V-8. In other posts I gave some background to a previous "restoration" done to this truck in which a "butcher" job was done installing a 1963 FE 352 and an automatic transmission. I will need to find a side shift steering column since the column that was in the truck was from the donor car. I also need to find a clutch pedal and linkage. I have found and installed front motor mounts and cross member.
I borrowed and scanned the Repair Manual and made it into a pdf file. I added some articles on this transmission I found on the Internet. If anyone needs a copy just message me. I'm pretty confident that this transmission will work well and it's period correct except not for a truck. The seller said he has had his for at least twenty years and he's had it up to 80 on the highway. He lives close by and promised to help me get it working if I run into trouble.

[blucar]

My father bought a new '52 Ford F1 with V8 and an overdrive trans. the gear shift was on the column.
I loved that truck, I put thousand's of miles on that truck driving around Idaho, Nevada, Wyoming and Utah. With the OD the truck had the best of the best, low gearing for hills and high gearing for the open road. IF I ever run into a '52 F1 that is green, V8 & OD, radio and deluxe heater I'll buy it.
I had a '59 Ford F100 V8 OD, PS, big window, custom cab 6' fleet side, for many tears. One day a man offered me a lot of money for the truck, much to my regret, I sold it.

[Eagle43]

Thanks. That's encouraging. I think it will work out well.

[40ford]

Originally Posted by blucar

My father bought a new '52 Ford F1 with V8 and an overdrive trans. the gear shift was on the column.
I loved that truck, I put thousand's of miles on that truck driving around Idaho, Nevada, Wyoming and Utah. With the OD the truck had the best of the best, low gearing for hills and high gearing for the open road. IF I ever run into a '52 F1 that is green, V8 & OD, radio and deluxe heater I'll buy it.
I had a '59 Ford F100 V8 OD, PS, big window, custom cab 6' fleet side, for many tears. One day a man offered me a lot of money for the truck, much to my regret, I sold it.

Never seen a 1952 with overdrive.Was this from the factory?My 52 is all stock with 3.92 rear end and will run 65mph all day long with plenty of pedal left!

[blucar]

Originally Posted by 40ford

Never seen a 1952 with overdrive.Was this from the factory?My 52 is all stock with 3.92 rear end and will run 65mph all day long with plenty of pedal left!

I was with my father when he drove the '52 out of Stoddard Ford in Idaho Falls, ID..
In 1954 my father traded the '52 in on a new F1, six cylinder, three on the tree, Sea Foam Green, I hated that truck, a gutless wonder.

[Eagle43]

I finished cleaning up, painting and bolting in the transmission today. I think everything on the transmission and overdrive is good. I'm looking for a 16 spline slip yoke and a new modern seal for the back. There was a lot of dirt in the overdrive since it was open at the back end but it cleaned up nicely. It is an R10.

There does seem to be a problem with the clutch. I used the truck pressure plate and throwout bearing and made a sleeve to fit it on the car bellhousing clutch arms. I bought a new clutch plate to fit the transmission - 1" 10 spline. I have no idea why I cannot move the clutch with a wrench so it's back to the drawing board. Maybe I need to use more force but I'm scared of breaking things.

I'm still looking for a side shift steering column and a clutch pedal. I found what appears to be a 1953 Ford sedan (correct me if I'm wrong) at a local wrecking yard. It has a side shift steering column. It may have a useable clutch pedal but I forgot to check when I was there last week. This is one of those yards where you take out your own parts. This is where I got my motor mounts and cross member almost two years ago. Does anyone know if a car steering column will work in a pickup?

[Ross F-1]

Originally Posted by blucar

My father bought a new '52 Ford F1 with V8 and an overdrive trans. the gear shift was on the column.
...

Originally Posted by 40ford

Never seen a 1952 with overdrive.Was this from the factory?My 52 is all stock with 3.92 rear end and will run 65mph all day long with plenty of pedal left!

OD wasn't a factory option in '52 on any F-series truck, '53 and newer had them. Blucar, do you have a picture of that truck? I have to believe it was a '53 that was sold in '52 and titled as such.

Eagle43, have you laid out the trans on the frame yet? The biggest obstacle on making these fit in a 48-52 F-1 is that the solenoid falls right on the trans crossmember, requiring a large cut. The crossmember in F-2's and larger is further back and has a much larger clear area.

[Eagle43]

Originally Posted by Ross F-1

Eagle43, have you laid out the trans on the frame yet? The biggest obstacle on making these fit in a 48-52 F-1 is that the solenoid falls right on the trans crossmember, requiring a large cut. The crossmember in F-2's and larger is further back and has a much larger clear area.

You're right. I just checked with a tape measure and the solenoid lines up with the crossmember. The mount on the transmission doesn't line up with the crossmember as I thought but will be an inch or so behind the crossmember. I can move the crossmember since it's bolted in but that will probably screw up the master cylinder and pedals. Any suggestions? I also don't know how I'll mount the tranny. How did you mount yours?

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by Eagle43

You're right. I just checked with a tape measure and the solenoid lines up with the crossmember. The mount on the transmission doesn't line up with the crossmember as I thought but will be an inch or so behind the crossmember. I can move the crossmember since it's bolted in but that will probably screw up the master cylinder and pedals. Any suggestions? I also don't know how I'll mount the tranny. How did you mount yours?

First thing, don't give up! You will love having that overdrive! The naysayers like their T5's and their measly 5 speeds, but you will have a 6 speed trans! (Although an extra switch is usually needed to get overdrive in low.) When the T5 guys need to downshift they have to push in the clutch and tug the shift lever, while all you have to do is floor the gas pedal to kick down into direct third (or fifth gear if you are counting all six)! Then just let up on the gas and you're automatically back in overdrive (or sixth)!

There is an adapter to relocate the solenoid, but I can't remember what car used it or how hard it is to find one.

[52flthed]

Originally Posted by blucar

My father bought a new '52 Ford F1 with V8 and an overdrive trans. the gear shift was on the column.
I loved that truck, I put thousand's of miles on that truck driving around Idaho, Nevada, Wyoming and Utah. With the OD the truck had the best of the best, low gearing for hills and high gearing for the open road. IF I ever run into a '52 F1 that is green, V8 & OD, radio and deluxe heater I'll buy it.
I had a '59 Ford F100 V8 OD, PS, big window, custom cab 6' fleet side, for many tears. One day a man offered me a lot of money for the truck, much to my regret, I sold it.

Ive never heard or seen any material in the data books showing an F1 in 52 that was able to be purchased with an overdrive? Have you ever found any thing that says that? Just curious as how you know that the truck came with that option originally? Thanks for any info or clarification on this. -john

[rotorwrench]

The bell housing on the 1949 through 51 Lincoln was to fit the big 337 Lincoln engine. It won't fit the 8BA family. If it was from a later 317 Y-block Lincoln then it still won't fit. A person may be able to use a late 1951 Mercury Bell housing but it's just a one year deal. That was the last year that the Mercury still had the frame mounted pedals with the standard clutch compensator that rotates the shaft in the bell housing to operate the throw out bearing. I've seen them on Flea-Pay a time or two. If the bell housing lower pan is missing then one from any 1952 or 53 Ford/Mercury car uses the same access pan on the bottom but they have the fulcrum type clutch actuator arm like the earlier Ford cars.

I'm pretty sure the T85 R11 transmission has the same transmission pattern as the Ford car transmissions did in the 50s. As for the rear mount, I'm not sure how it will work with the F1 cross member but I'm sure it can be made to function with some yankee engenuity. If the Lincoln T85 R11 has the 1 3/8" 10-spline input then it will work with the pickup 10 or 11-inch Long type clutch. The driveshaft would likely need to be shortened and I'm not sure if they use the same front knuckle as a Ford pickup but that would be easy to check.

After 1950, all the F1/F100 Ford pickups used the Dana 44 rear axle. The spring pad may be different between the F1 series and F100 series but that is about the only different till they changed away from the 19-spline axles. Brakes are basically the same.

Later in the 60s, the T85 R11 was beefed up with a nodular cast iron case and it has the R11N designation. These transmissions were strong enough to put behind a Ford FE 390 and giver all you got. They were a lot tougher transmission than the old R10.