600w leaking out of steering box

[DNLs1930]

Steering was kinda sloppy/loose so I checked the oil level and NO OIL. It was not "dry" but seems to have a little grease in the steering box. I added the 600WT oil and it is leaking so obviously the reason for the "grease".


I have read about Pinrite, Corn Head and 1200 WT grease/oil so guessing I just need to choose one.


I have also read about the wiring being affected by steering box leaks so thinking I need to take this all apart and clean then pack the steering box with grease. Yes/ No. maybe?


The steering works fine so not at a rebuild point (IMO) which is based on very limited Model A experience.



I'm located in Texas so it will get hot here and not really sure I will be cruzin in 100F+ temps but ya never know.



How does Corn Head grease hold up to higher temps? Liquefy and leak?



THANKS as always!!

[Oldbluoval]

Can’t answer about corn head but
There is a fix that entails replacing the bottom plate with one that has a tube.and seals the base
Check parts dealers
Yes grease can affect wiring

[DNLs1930]

Originally Posted by Oldbluoval

Can’t answer about corn head but
There is a fix that entails replacing the bottom plate with one that has a tube.and seals the base
Check parts dealers
Yes grease can affect wiring

Yep I saw the end plate and tube; you think this is the more "normal" fix?

[David R.]

I completely rebuilt mine and used the tube style end plate but it still leaked. Turned out the cap screws for end plate was tapped into housing and was leaking around threads. Removed screws and added sealant and no more leaks. Don’t use grease. It will work away from where you need it. Use the 600W. You can expect a little leak around sector shaft in use, but you should be able to keep bottom dry with the tube type plate and good gasket (and permatex on bolts).

[rrich1]

Get the new plate with the tube. I just replaced mine last month and it solved my leaking issues

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Originally Posted by DNLs1930

Steering was kinda sloppy/loose...


The steering works fine so not at a rebuild point (IMO) which is based on very limited Model A experience.

This is just my opinion but if the steering is indeed sloppy and loose, the steering is likely NOT working fine. I'd say you ARE at a rebuild point. You did not indicate whether this is a 7-tooth or a 2-tooth gearbox, but there is more than just adding the tube on the end. It may be that some parts may be re-usable however you probably should take the time to ensure everything from the sector bushings to the shaft bearings/bushings are within specs.

[old31]

First, get yourself a Les Andrews red book and find out why your steering is sloppy/loose.

Then go with both Penrite and the tube and that will help.

[CWPASADENA]

It sounds like you may need a rebuild of the box but in the short term, you can try to adjust it to get as much play out of it as you can then install a tube and use Penrite, Corn Head, or 1200W. All will work well but do not fill it up with grease. It will not "flow" and the internal parts will not get proper lubrication.


My opinion.


Chris W.

[Jacksonlll]

There is a fix for the leak through the sector shaft bushings. An external o ring that works pretty good. Check the catalog.

[1931 flamingo]

As above, clean the exposed wiring, install the tube assy AND PennRite steering box lube. NO leakee.
Paul in CT

[rosenkranswa]

I use cornhead grease in all of mine. Its not really a grease per se, more of a super 600W. I get it at John Deere dealers.

[DNLs1930]

And THIS is why we have such awesome (people) cars!!!


I have a 2 tooth steering box installed.

I have the Les book and read about all the adjustments and was going to check/set them as well as add the grease.


I was thinking if I open up the box for the leak I might as well take it all apart and rebuild so guess I will start checking out that process as well.


As always thanks for the info and I will update as we go and will make some kind of documentation of the rebuild when that happens.

[Jacksonlll]

Grab your pitman arm and pull it toward you and away from you from the side of the car. If there is any movement in the sector shaft bushings, you must replace them. Make sure the pinch bolt is tight.

[Tom Endy]

A good product to use in vintage steering boxes is Penrite lube. it is a very heavy oil, much like a grease, but it flows.

It can be procured from:

Restoration Supply Co.
15182B Highland valley Rd.
Escondido, CA 92025
800-306-7008

Not a good idea to use grease as it does not flow, and it will be pushed away from the gears.

Tom Endy

[DNLs1930]

Originally Posted by Tom Endy

A good product to use in vintage steering boxes is Penrite lube. it is a very heavy oil, much like a grease, but it flows.

It can be procured from:

Restoration Supply Co.
15182B Highland valley Rd.
Escondido, CA 92025
800-306-7008

Not a good idea to use grease as it does not flow, and it will be pushed away from the gears.

Tom Endy

Thanks I have seen a lot of discussion about this oil and maybe a new endplate seal and tube coupled with this thicker oil will solve the leak.


The grease idea seems ok but I agree it would "move" away from the mating surfaces and provide less and less lubrication over time.

[katy]

I have seen chassis grease mixed w/STP used for a flowable type grease. Don't ask me the proportions, but it seems to me it was 50/50.

[1931 flamingo]

Why mix up some concoction when you can buy something readily available that works?? JMO
Paul in CT

[Jacksonlll]

I used to use STP and I think it worked OK, but when a friend took it apart to put new gears in, the mess was awful. He is still trying to clean that mess up. Remember Dave???

[LeRoiGross]

About 5 years ago my wife commented that my steering was loose and I needed to tighten it up. So I did. And then I replaced my Pittman arm. And then I replaced my drag link, idler balls, front end, and all the other parts I could see. This led to a complete restoration (body off), so look out what you start. And my steering still has a little play in it.

[DNLs1930]

Originally Posted by LeRoiGross

About 5 years ago my wife commented that my steering was loose and I needed to tighten it up. So I did. And then I replaced my Pittman arm. And then I replaced my drag link, idler balls, front end, and all the other parts I could see. This led to a complete restoration (body off), so look out what you start. And my steering still has a little play in it.

[DNLs1930]

Checked the leak today and apparently it has all leaked out.. Guess I will get to looking at endplates and seals and Penrite and, and, and; more to come...

[DNLs1930]

Can someone explain how the "Tube" endplate helps eliminate an oil leak from the steering box? I understand the tube extends to a point above the oil level but that doesn't help me in a visual sense to understand it's function.
THANK YOU in advance!!

[M2M]

Originally Posted by Tom Endy

A good product to use in vintage steering boxes is Penrite lube. it is a very heavy oil, much like a grease, but it flows.

It can be procured from:

Restoration Supply Co.
15182B Highland valley Rd.
Escondido, CA 92025
800-306-7008

Not a good idea to use grease as it does not flow, and it will be pushed away from the gears.

Tom Endy

Nice product but why pay big money?

This Penrite "lube" is really a NLGI 00 grease with a cool picture on the bottle.

Buy at Tractor Supply for under $6

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pr...ndle-grease-00

You're Welcome.

[Ed in Maine]

Jackson has a good suggestion above. Last year I did send out my sector shaft to machine a groove for the o-ring. Between this modification and the end plate at the lighting switch at the bottom of the steering column, all leaks should go away! Ed

[katy]

Originally Posted by DNLs1930

Can someone explain how the "Tube" endplate helps eliminate an oil leak from the steering box? I understand the tube extends to a point above the oil level but that doesn't help me in a visual sense to understand it's function.
THANK YOU in advance!!

Oil seeps out because there is no seal between the light switch actuating rod (A-3616) and the lower endlate (A-3568) on the steering box

[DNLs1930]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Originally Posted by DNLs1930

Can someone explain how the "Tube" endplate helps eliminate an oil leak from the steering box? I understand the tube extends to a point above the oil level but that doesn't help me in a visual sense to understand it's function.
THANK YOU in advance!!

After taking the wiring, spider and the end plate OFF the "tube" makes total sense now that I understand the light rod runs through the center of the tube and tube ensures the oil is no longer in contact with the rotating rod. Looks like a very good solution to what must be a common problem.



NO gasket was between the endplate and steering box so pretty sure that did not help the situation...



New tube endplate and gasket are on the way and we should be good to go once the install is complete assuming I will be able to get the "Jesus clip" installed...

[Conaway2]

To remove the play in the steering in my car, I completely disassembled the steering box, and replaced the upper and lower bearings, lower plate with welded tube, lower race, upper race, new sector gear, used new sector housing with needle bearings and modern seal, all new gaskets and shorter pitman arm. The only thing I didn’t replace was the worm gear, as I’m not sure about the quality of the repro parts. Bottom line - huge improvement in steering - much tighter and almost feels like power steering. Jim

[DNLs1930]

Originally Posted by Conaway2

To remove the play in the steering in my car, I completely disassembled the steering box, and replaced the upper and lower bearings, lower plate with welded tube, lower race, upper race, new sector gear, used new sector housing with needle bearings and modern seal, all new gaskets and shorter pitman arm. The only thing I didn’t replace was the worm gear, as I’m not sure about the quality of the repro parts. Bottom line - huge improvement in steering - much tighter and almost feels like power steering. Jim

YIKES that's a lot of work and sounds like you did an EXCELLENT job!!!

My Model A expertise is severely lacking at this point so I will take the little victory once I get it put back together and see how it feels. I will try the "adjustments" I have read about if needed and go from there. WHEN I get to the rebuild point I know who I will be pointing all the questions I can come up with to...

[Chuck Sea/Tac]

Originally Posted by M2M

Nice product but why pay big money?

This Penrite "lube" is really a NLGI 00 grease with a cool picture on the bottle.

Buy at Tractor Supply for under $6

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pr...ndle-grease-00

You're Welcome.

How did you come to this conclusion? I tried to figure out what it was, but got nowhere.

[M2M]

Originally Posted by Chuck Sea/Tac

How did you come to this conclusion? I tried to figure out what it was, but got nowhere.

Visit the Penrite website, it's all there.
https://www.penriteoil.com.au/assets...BOX%20LUBE.pdf

[old31]

deleted.

[old31]

Originally Posted by DNLs1930

I hope you didn't replace the wife also..

[Chuck Sea/Tac]

Originally Posted by M2M

Visit the Penrite website, it's all there.
https://www.penriteoil.com.au/assets...BOX%20LUBE.pdf

Some of the info doesn’t exactly match, so it’s possible penrite has added to the mix.? Probably close enough. I still have some penrite and I’ll pick up some “00” from tractor supply, although I doubt I’ll see any difference. The tractor supply two miles away, is the only one in my area that doesn’t have it in stock! Go figure!

[alexiskai]

Some of the (good!) reviews on TSC's website for the 00 spindle grease explicitly refer to using it in vintage auto steering boxes. I'm game, I'll go pick some up and see how it does. I've been having leaks as well.

[David R.]

Originally Posted by Conaway2

To remove the play in the steering in my car, I completely disassembled the steering box, and replaced the upper and lower bearings, lower plate with welded tube, lower race, upper race, new sector gear, used new sector housing with needle bearings and modern seal, all new gaskets and shorter pitman arm. The only thing I didn’t replace was the worm gear, as I’m not sure about the quality of the repro parts. Bottom line - huge improvement in steering - much tighter and almost feels like power steering. Jim

I basically went through the same thing only I used original sector housing with new sector and bushing and added the o ring. I had to replace worm because the box had been allowed to go dry and bearing races on worm were rusted. Wow! What a job it was getting that old worm off and new one on without bending shaft.

[M2M]

Originally Posted by Chuck Sea/Tac

Some of the info doesn’t exactly match, so it’s possible penrite has added to the mix.? Probably close enough. I still have some penrite and I’ll pick up some “00” from tractor supply, although I doubt I’ll see any difference. The tractor supply two miles away, is the only one in my area that doesn’t have it in stock! Go figure!

Originally Posted by alexiskai

Some of the (good!) reviews on TSC's website for the 00 spindle grease explicitly refer to using it in vintage auto steering boxes. I'm game, I'll go pick some up and see how it does. I've been having leaks as well.

Guys do me a favour, when you visit Tractor Supply Co. check out if they sell "Tractor Supply Co." brand t-shirts and baseball caps with a big "Tractor Supply Co." logo/sign on them. Love what the brand stands for...it best reflects the inner me . Many guys on this forum seem to be more Armani, Calvin Klein, Dolce Gabbana, Gucci type of guys, especially the ones running both Mitchell overdrives and Mitchell syncros with nickel plated cup holders for their $10 soy decaf frappuccino.

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by M2M

Guys do me a favour, when you visit Tractor Supply Co. check out if they sell "Tractor Supply Co." brand t-shirts and baseball caps with a big "Tractor Supply Co." logo/sign on them. Love what the brand stands for...it best reflects the inner me . Many guys on this forum seem to be more Armani, Calvin Klein, Dolce Gabbana, Gucci type of guys, especially the ones running both Mitchell overdrives and Mitchell syncros with nickel plated cup holders for their $10 soy decaf frappuccino.

Ha, should I mail you a T-shirt? Around here, the status brands are all agricultural. The guys who put thousands into upgrading their 4x4 or classic Camaro are also the guys wearing Tractor Supply hats.

[katy]

Originally Posted by M2M

Guys do me a favour, when you visit Tractor Supply Co. check out if they sell "Tractor Supply Co." brand t-shirts and baseball caps with a big "Tractor Supply Co." logo/sign on them. Love what the brand stands for...it best reflects the inner me . Many guys on this forum seem to be more Armani, Calvin Klein, Dolce Gabbana, Gucci type of guys, especially the ones running both Mitchell overdrives and Mitchell syncros with nickel plated cup holders for their $10 soy decaf frappuccino.

Here ya go:

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pr...ly%20T%20shirt

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/se...20supply%20cap

[30 Closed Cab PU]

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/ca...e:&pageSize:20&


https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/ca...:&pageSize:100&

[M2M]

Thanks guys.

[alexiskai]

Follow-up post, I picked up the Tractor Supply spindle grease yesterday. Attached pictures of the bottle and a sample of the oil. This was freshly squeezed at room temperature. Will post an update later today to see how viscous it is.

[M2M]

If 00 is too thick then there's always NGLI 000 grease but it's normally only sold in 5 gallon pail size.

I managed to find one seller who offers in 14 oz. size:
https://www.super-lube.com/multi-pur...-ptfe-41150000

[alexiskai]

Follow-up: 24 hours later, the TS 00 grease holds its shape, but you can see that some part of it is separating and wicking out across the metal surface. I think whatever this is would still leak out of the steering box, but OTOH there might be enough high-viscosity substance left over to function adequately for lubrication.

[DNLs1930]

Ok everyone I hate to keep asking questions but it seems every time I touch this car another one or three questions come up...


Just so you know: YES I tried the search function and YES I read my Les Andrews book and found nothing to answer the question.



My question is about the 2 tooth steering box and what should be inside it and how it goes together with the after market tube steering end plate.


With the "oil tube" end plate Bratton's says to not use the "oil seal retainer" which I can understand because the tube is now the oil retainer but what about the cork seal that was installed? Do I "seal" the horn shaft (which would be inside the tube) with the new cork seal or do I leave it out because the "Tube takes care oil leaks?



I plan to dry fit the parts tomorrow by omitting the "oil seal retainer" as noted but install the cork "seal" then the tube end plate with gasket. My thought is the seal will be tight around the horn shaft and the tube will be "capped off" by the cork seal as the bolts are tightened.



The reason I ask is the cork oil seal is not discussed at least not in any of the reference materials I have read.



I have the thicker "00 oil" to fill up the steering box with and will put a bit of RTV on the gasket surfaces. Hope this works!!!


As always THANKS for all the knowledge and willingness to share!!

[katy]

I suspect the cork oil seal is a home made effort, so suggest that you just use the "oil tube end plate" w/gasket.

[DNLs1930]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Originally Posted by katy

I suspect the cork oil seal is a home made effort, so suggest that you just use the "oil tube end plate" w/gasket.

Thanks Katy!!
I tried to dry fit the old cork seal and the tube and it was OBVIOUS they were not going to occupy the same space at the same time.



SO I went looking for more info and only after reading all the different vendor replacement part descriptions and comments did I find the cork seal is for use with the original style end plate.


Off to install the not original style end plate without cork seal and hope it doesn't leak...

[DNLs1930]

Installed the new end plate with oil tube just waiting for the RTV to set so I can refill the steering box.



THANKS everyone for sharing knowledge and experiences to help me and hopefully others in our quest to keep these amazing cars running and driving.



LOTS of lessons learned doing this simple maintenance task; I will post them after the successful leak check...

[DNLs1930]

600w IS NOT leaking out of steering box!!!
The RTV has set and the 00 Cottonpicker grease/oil is full. Checked the level after 24 hours to see if it settled and added a little more as the air gaps get filled in. Will check again tomorrow before we go out test cruzin for the new Alternator, all lights and the steering box leak.


Thanks everyone for so many helpful responses to get me through my first real maintenance projects. Steering box leak, Generator changeover to Alternator and headlight reflectors... Hope to return the favor sooner than later!

[M2M]

Originally Posted by DNLs1930

600w IS NOT leaking out of steering box!!!
The RTV has set and the 00 Cottonpicker grease/oil is full. Checked the level after 24 hours to see if it settled and added a little more as the air gaps get filled in. Will check again tomorrow before we go out test cruzin for the new Alternator, all lights and the steering box leak.


Thanks everyone for so many helpful responses to get me through my first real maintenance projects. Steering box leak, Generator changeover to Alternator and headlight reflectors... Hope to return the favor sooner than later!

[J Franklin]

But what really is in that glass? Yes, keep up the fixes!

[M2M]

Originally Posted by J Franklin

But what really is in that glass? Yes, keep up the fixes!

Dom Pérignon ?