Steering Damper

[Synchro909]

We were away for the weekend in our '28 Tudor and for the first time, it showed signs of wanting to wobble at low speed. I've gone trough the front end and all looks very good except maybe a bit of play in the steering box. There is about 1 - 11/2 inches at the rim of the steering wheel.This steering box was done up only about 5 years ago and had NO play in it then. It is such a @#$%^& of a job to take the column out and put it back that rebuilding it again doesn't appeal, besides, I'm not interested in doing it yet again any time soon.
I've heard all of the arguments about how dampers only disguise a problem and I don't really want to hear them all over again please.
I've looked in catalogues and can't see them listed. Are they still available? What have others done?
PS. I would have no objection to putting a 2 tooth column in if I could get one. They're as scarce as rocking horse $#!T. (RHD)

[Tom Wesenberg]

If you mean "the death wobble" where you hit a bump and the front tires shake rapidly back and forth, I'd first make sure the toe in is dead on.

[Synchro909]

Thanks Tom. There is no bump involved, it just appears at low (walking) speed, usually as I am coming to a stop.
The toe in appears to be OK. The wobbles just started with no change to the toe in or anything else since the last few thousand miles and the tyres look to have even wear.
Bill, Does the dog have any answers???

[daveymc29]

If it's in your mindset, you can use a 56 Ford pickup box that is modified. I did that after I had a 7 tooth rebuilt by an "expert" and it lasted about four years then I got the play back in the wheel. Well worth the cost to me as I can now turn with one finger if moving at all. That saves my foul back a lot of pain on long trips. The steering damper I had on my truck bent the tie rod, put a brand new one on and it got bent in no time, so I took that off. Just what has been my experience. Past performance is no guarantee of future gains...no, that's something different, isn't it?

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

Thanks Tom. There is no bump involved, it just appears at low (walking) speed, usually as I am coming to a stop.
The toe in appears to be OK. The wobbles just started with no change to the toe in or anything else since the last few thousand miles and the tyres look to have even wear.
Bill, Does the dog have any answers???

Dog here,
I only know about DOG trackin' & TOE IN/TOE OUT Be sure to check them NUTS that hold the steering arms to the spindles. Daves' "TUDOR FROM HELL," had a low speed side to side wobble, whin his nuts were loose Make them REAL TIGHT!!! And make SURE it's NOT tyre or wheel run out.
Buster T.

[Floats]

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Synchro,
Check the caster.
My rebuilt 7 tooth also have a little play which becomes quite scary at speed. I was just as dissapointed as you until I rechecked the toe and caster. Toe was fine, but the caster was out. In order to change the caster, I added another spring blade to raise the front end. The caster is now within spec and problem solved.
If you are satisfied with the spring setup, just add a 6 inch off cut piece on top iso an extra blade.
Tips,
1. load a free inclinometer app on your cell phone
2. use the one in sixty rule to calculate the thickness of the spacer required
3. the wishbone is about 800mm from ball to axle

[700rpm]

I put a damper on my '29 Tudor 30 years ago and have never taken it off. I have experienced NO adverse effects from that. Someday I'll replace my wishbone and rebuild the front end, but until then...

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by daveymc29

If it's in your mindset, you can use a 56 Ford pickup box that is modified. I did that after I had a 7 tooth rebuilt by an "expert" and it lasted about four years then I got the play back in the wheel. Well worth the cost to me as I can now turn with one finger if moving at all. That saves my foul back a lot of pain on long trips. The steering damper I had on my truck bent the tie rod, put a brand new one on and it got bent in no time, so I took that off. Just what has been my experience. Past performance is no guarantee of future gains...no, that's something different, isn't it?

Daveymc29, we are a RHD country. '56 Ford pickups are even rarer than rocking horse $#!T.
Looks like problem solved. Arizona Model A has come to the rescue AGAIN. Sammy is a very knowledgeable and helpful guy.
Thanks to all who responded

[quickchange]

Synchro909, RHD F100 box totally different to the LHD one , Coming soon from Flat Head TED new 30-31 s/box with F100 guts , I have a complete rebuilt RHD Gemmer here, Also steering Dampers in stock . sounds like you are fixed up.

[Mike V. Florida]

My guess is 99.9% of all Model A's on the road don't have the low speed wobble. The best thing is to find the true problem and fix it. But it is your cr to do with as you want. How about a Mustang front end? All the future problems of the A front end would be gone.

[Chuck Sea/Tac]

Sometimes loose ball joints especially on the tie rods will do it. Also check wheel bearings and King pins.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

My guess is 99.9% of all Model A's on the road don't have the low speed wobble. The best thing is to find the true problem and fix it. But it is your cr to do with as you want. How about a Mustang front end? All the future problems of the A front end would be gone.

I also have a '29 Phaeton which also has this problem but I know one of the king pins is bad on it. I'll fix that first. That makes 2 out of 3 with the problem!
Ford has only started selling Mustangs again here in the past couple of months after a break of decades. Second hand front end? Not likely.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

I also have a '29 Phaeton which also has this problem but I know one of the king pins is bad on it. I'll fix that first. That makes 2 out of 3 with the problem!
Ford has only started selling Mustangs again here in the past couple of months after a break of decades. Second hand front end? Not likely.

My point is they can be fixed without adding additional hardware. I will admit it is so much easier and faster to put in a damper that I'm sure it is the number one reason for doing so, ease.

[Mitch//pa]

Do a tire rotation and retest. It's quick .. Air them up also

[Barry B./ Ma.]

I would check those steering arm nuts for tightness as Bill W. suggested. The right steering arm on my coupe had loosened I don't know how as these are large nuts with cotter pins. The shaft diameter or the hole in the axle behind the nut can wear and allow the shaft to wobble slightly which gets exaggerated at the wheel.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by Barry B./ Ma.

I would check those steering arm nuts for tightness as Bill W. suggested. The right steering arm on my coupe had loosened I don't know how as these are large nuts with cotter pins. The shaft diameter or the hole in the axle behind the nut can wear and allow the shaft to wobble slightly which gets exaggerated at the wheel.

You're EXACTLY right, Barry,
That's why the Dog posted that. Those nuts are OFTEN overlooked & have to be REALLY TIGHT, like Dicks' HATBAND!
The Dogs' Man

[Rex_A_Lott]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

Daveymc29, we are a RHD country. '56 Ford pickups are even rarer than rocking horse $#!T.
Looks like problem solved. Arizona Model A has come to the rescue AGAIN. Sammy is a very knowledgeable and helpful guy.
Thanks to all who responded

So what was the problem, and how did you fix it?

[JohnLaVoy]

Make sure the A frame bolts are tight where it attaches to the bell housing. If you placed a rubber ball in there when you redid stuff years ago it might be worn out.

[Al 29Tudor]

Synchro909,
One of our members suddenly developed a low speed wobble and it turned out that his front drums were out of round. He had the drums trued up and the problem was fixed.
Al

[tbirdtbird]

be sure the kingpin lock pins are tight

[MikeK]

I agree with Floats in post #6. Check the caster.

The question with "death wobble" is do you want to fix the symptom or do you want to fix the root problem? Ever wonder why one Model A with everything worn and loose in the front end does not wobble, yet another A with one little thing slightly loose shimmys like crazy?

To fix the symptom just make sure everything in the front end is a tight as possible. Then keep your fingers crossed. You are only holding tight a wheel that wants to shimmy.

To fix the actual problem so the wheels do not want to shimmy in the first place there is really no mystery. If it shimmys something is usually BENT affecting caster. Tightening everything up to new spec certainly improves steering and tracking but does not address geometry errors that induce resonance like shimmy. If you have a bent axle, bent forgings at either end of the wishbone, engine misalignment (the wishbone bolts to the fly cover casting at the back) or frame twist and bend you do not have the factory spec 2 degrees caster. Simple visual inspection likely will not reveal a bend of only a degree or two. You need to carefully measure.

Think of a shopping cart. When the front wheels get slightly bent back from slamming curbs and parking lot divots, you get a cart with a front wheel that goes into the dreaded "death wobble".

80 years of pounding pot holes and RR tracks bends both the axle, shackles, and wishbone in the negative direction. Reducing caster just one degree from the factory spec'ed 2 degrees will make wheels want to shimmy.

There is a lot of info out there about how to straighten an A axle, but not much about the wishbone. The front forgings that hold the kingpin actually bend rather easily compared to the axle. Perhaps someone has the Ford print for the wishbone and can throw in a few angles and dimensions?

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by Rex_A_Lott

So what was the problem, and how did you fix it?

My biggest problem is I couldn't find anything specific. My cure? A damper on the tie rod.
When these tyres are worn out I intend putting radials on it. (Maybe that should read UNDER it!!) I will then recheck and reassess everything.

[Art Newland]

My coupe has done this a couple times, but at the same two places! What I noticed was it only did it when first driving it. If the tire pressure had gotten a little low, going around a big right hand corner, the flatspots on the tires would end up 180 degrees out of sync. It would start the back and forth rocking that started the wobble. A little more speed and it quit. If there is 35 psi in the tires, it doesn't do it. Now maybe if the front end was in better shape it wouldn't do it at all?

[SSsssteamer]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

I've looked in catalogues and can't see them listed. Are they still available? What have others done?
PS. I would have no objection to putting a 2 tooth column in if I could get one. They're as scarce as rocking horse $#!T. (RHD)

Steering Dampers are still available. After years of trying to sort out a wobble, I recently put one on our 1911 Stanley. Find a damper at: http://www.macsautoparts.com/ford_mo...tabilizer.html