The Ford Barn

BUBBAS IGNITION · 12-06-2012, 03:51 PM

After doing vintage ignition at the Newport Hillclimb for 30 plus years i got to say i still learn something every day or so in regards to the correct and kinda correct way of doing stuff.
At our shop there are actually 5 of us doing distributors.in one respect or another and we have been pretty busy for a month or two.
Four are part time employees with approx one day a week etc...
Terry and Shelly ( we call her the bean) are our teardown and clean up crew doing the cleaning, polishing and painting of all the parts. Walt and Doug each do a day building the units ( after being cleaned etc). Walt and Doug are mechanics and work beside me at the bench. Just yesterday Walt and i had a conversation on the early Ford distributors and we decided we thought we knew a lot about them and really didnt know hardly any thing!! This board and its members feed us tons of information that we can apply to our builds every day. So for that we thank each and every one of you !!!

That brings up a couple points : ( no pun intended )

I took a call yesterday from a customer that had just recieved his two bolt crab unit. He was very happy with the look etc of the unit and he complemented me on the work man ship. Then he told me he had to send it back ( or at the very least readjust it) based on what him and his neighbor had decided after a visual inspection !! It appeared to them that the contact spacing was different per set of contacts and they could adjust to even them out !!! I asked if they had ran the unit and he said not yet. I then asked if they had adjusted the points and he said no. WOW thats great , DONT ! Just install and run the unit as if was calibrated on a test machine and was as perfect as could posibly be to which he agreed ! Whew glad he called . Thats what prompted this post on the Ford barn...
I am referencing the actual Ford service bulliten from the manual in regards to setting up the dual points in the early Fords on a test machine versus using feeler gauges.
I will use this two bolt crab as a reference point and quote the Ford papers as we go to explain the logic..

Looking at the distributor we have a right and left side of contacts. Right being the pass side and left being the drivers side as installed in the car.
The left side is adjusted first ( with the right side being blocked off) and the left side controls the actual spark timing. This adjustment is done running with a dwell meter at a spec of 27 degrees ( or 60 %). Thats 60%
of a possible 45 degree distributor cam angle. The most correct adjustment that could be done !!!
Once this left side is locked down then the other side is adjusted to a total ( both sets working ) of 36 degrees. ( again the most correct adjustment that can be done).
This assures the distributor is correct as a whole regardless of spacing . The left side correct and arcing will occur mainly on left side and no danger of incorrect left side point gap!!

Just for grins i checked four of these today before wrapping for shipment with a feeler gauge . They checked very close to .011 on each set of contacts ! Using my Motor manual with a spec of .014 to .016 using a feeler gauge on the bench the timing would be ok to run but still be off quite a bit..

So when you get one of our units , drive it and let me know how she runs , but dont change the settings no matter how it looks !!!

OK...

Brendan · 12-06-2012, 08:13 PM

it looks nice to me! I have a question, could a Ford run on one set of points? I was just wondering....Brendan

BUBBAS IGNITION · 12-06-2012, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brendan

it looks nice to me! I have a question, could a Ford run on one set of points? I was just wondering....Brendan

Yes , especially with the later model ignition coils etc.....we have done this a few times on the helmet 1936 unit by removing the right set of points and adjusting the other set to 32 degrees etc.......seems to work ok....

Harylufa · 12-07-2012, 07:31 AM

Bubba!
Distributor looks great and what you mentioned above is very interesting, please keep explaining more more important tips, I want to learn.

Thank for sharing

Hary

Frank Miller · 12-07-2012, 07:45 AM

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe dual points increase the dwell time or the time the points are closed and decrease the time it takes them to close after firing the plug. So as long as the primary are set correct and the dwell time is met then the distributor is set upproperly. I think the timing of the second set of points determines the final gap.

BUBBAS IGNITION · 12-07-2012, 08:26 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Miller

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe dual points increase the dwell time or the time the points are closed and decrease the time it takes them to close after firing the plug. So as long as the primary are set correct and the dwell time is met then the distributor is set upproperly. I think the timing of the second set of points determines the final gap.

Franks,

Thats correct. Dual points allow additional dwell or coil build up time.
The timing of the second set determines the final dwell.....

coolcoupe · 12-08-2012, 01:21 AM

Looking at the distributor laying on the bench the point used for timing would be on the right, correct ?

hardtimes · 12-08-2012, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolcoupe

Looking at the distributor laying on the bench the point used for timing would be on the right, correct ?

I believe that that's the case...and that same 'point' would be on the left when installed on the engine and viewed from the driver seat

!

Bubba,
I've installed a '36 helmet using your information. It runs great , for being assembled by a neophite! I do NOT have a vacuum line hooked up..yet. When I run the engine rpm up and let off the throttle... between shifts...I get a bit of 'backfire'. Is this because I don't have the vacuum line installed or something else...in your opinion

BUBBAS IGNITION · 12-08-2012, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolcoupe

Looking at the distributor laying on the bench the point used for timing would be on the right, correct ?

Yep thats the left ( drivers side ) on the car and thats the timing control...

BUBBAS IGNITION · 12-08-2012, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardtimes

I believe that that's the case...and that same 'point' would be on the left when installed on the engine and viewed from the driver seat

!

Bubba,
I've installed a '36 helmet using your information. It runs great , for being assembled by a neophite! I do NOT have a vacuum line hooked up..yet. When I run the engine rpm up and let off the throttle... between shifts...I get a bit of 'backfire'. Is this because I don't have the vacuum line installed or something else...in your opinion

Not having a vac line may not be the problem as much as some tension on the vac brake etc.....

ken ct · 12-08-2012, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BUBBAS IGNITION

After doing vintage ignition at the Newport Hillclimb for 30 plus years i got to say i still learn something every day or so in regards to the correct and kinda correct way of doing stuff.
At our shop there are actually 5 of us doing distributors.in one respect or another and we have been pretty busy for a month or two.
Four are part time employees with approx one day a week etc...
Terry and Shelly ( we call her the bean) are our teardown and clean up crew doing the cleaning, polishing and painting of all the parts. Walt and Doug each do a day building the units ( after being cleaned etc). Walt and Doug are mechanics and work beside me at the bench. Just yesterday Walt and i had a conversation on the early Ford distributors and we decided we thought we knew a lot about them and really didnt know hardly any thing!! This board and its members feed us tons of information that we can apply to our builds every day. So for that we thank each and every one of you !!!

That brings up a couple points : ( no pun intended )

I took a call yesterday from a customer that had just recieved his two bolt crab unit. He was very happy with the look etc of the unit and he complemented me on the work man ship. Then he told me he had to send it back ( or at the very least readjust it) based on what him and his neighbor had decided after a visual inspection !! It appeared to them that the contact spacing was different per set of contacts and they could adjust to even them out !!! I asked if they had ran the unit and he said not yet. I then asked if they had adjusted the points and he said no. WOW thats great , DONT ! Just install and run the unit as if was calibrated on a test machine and was as perfect as could posibly be to which he agreed ! Whew glad he called . Thats what prompted this post on the Ford barn...
I am referencing the actual Ford service bulliten from the manual in regards to setting up the dual points in the early Fords on a test machine versus using feeler gauges.
I will use this two bolt crab as a reference point and quote the Ford papers as we go to explain the logic..

Looking at the distributor we have a right and left side of contacts. Right being the pass side and left being the drivers side as installed in the car.
The left side is adjusted first ( with the right side being blocked off) and the left side controls the actual spark timing. This adjustment is done running with a dwell meter at a spec of 27 degrees ( or 60 %). Thats 60%
of a possible 45 degree distributor cam angle. The most correct adjustment that could be done !!!
Once this left side is locked down then the other side is adjusted to a total ( both sets working ) of 36 degrees. ( again the most correct adjustment that can be done).
This assures the distributor is correct as a whole regardless of spacing . The left side correct and arcing will occur mainly on left side and no danger of incorrect left side point gap!!

Just for grins i checked four of these today before wrapping for shipment with a feeler gauge . They checked very close to .011 on each set of contacts ! Using my Motor manual with a spec of .014 to .016 using a feeler gauge on the bench the timing would be ok to run but still be off quite a bit..

So when you get one of our units , drive it and let me know how she runs , but dont change the settings no matter how it looks !!!

OK...

Jim i see we both use the allen screws on the points.Been using them for like 10 yrs now,lol much easier than slot screws. Ken ct.

hardtimes · 12-08-2012, 01:31 PM

Hey Jim,
Thanks for sharing that info! Hm, soon as I get the next carcass helmet, it's coming to you , unless I score one that you've already done finished !

Hoop · 12-08-2012, 02:32 PM

I'm having a hard time finding the 27 degree spec on distributors after 1935. What I'm finding is 22 1/2. Are there later changes that I have not seen?

Per Ford Bulletins:
http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attach...8&d=1343915481

Per Mac Van Pelt's site:
1932 18 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2 4° BTDC 400 .012-.014"
1933 40 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2 4° BTDC 400 .012-.014"
1934 40 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2 4° BTDC 400 .012-.014"
1935 48 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2 4° BTDC 400 .012-.014"
1936 68 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2 4° BTDC 400 .012-.014"
1937 77 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2 4° BTDC 400 .014-.016"
1938 81A 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2 4° BTDC 400 .014-.016"
1939 91A 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2 4° BTDC 400 .014-.016"
1940 01A 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2 4° BTDC 400 .014-.016"
1941 11A 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2 4° BTDC 400 .014-.016"
1942 21A 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2 4° BTDC 400 .014-.016"
1946 69A 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2 4° BTDC 400 .014-.016"
1947 79A 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2 4° BTDC 400 .014-.016"
1948 89A 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2 4° BTDC 400 .014-.016"

BUBBAS IGNITION · 12-08-2012, 02:44 PM

Hoop,

I think you are correct that the gaps and dwell changed with the crabs etc.
Using my motor manual the final setting was still 36 as a total.
Thats pretty much where we leave them as a total.
The intial left side setting may need to be a little lower.
However we have had very good performance out them using the 26-27 left side settings.

Still very difficult to adjust with a feeler gauge....

Hoop · 12-08-2012, 03:23 PM

Jim,

Agree, of course. I suspect that initial performance would not be an issue, but that "creeping" point gap due to rubbing block wear MIGHT be more of a reason for the change. Possibly several years of experience in the early 30's might have shown a slight increase in intervals between tune-ups could be gained by increasing the gap.

The original 27 degree spec had to have been well-tested prior to introduction.

... but that's a guess. (Alan usually knows the history of this stuff.)

BUBBAS IGNITION · 12-08-2012, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ken ct

Jim i see we both use the allen screws on the points.Been using them for like 10 yrs now,lol much easier than slot screws. Ken ct.

Love them and they are stainless. I used to spend a lot of time cleaning up the old take out screws.
The allens lets us "old guys" hold on to the screw better as well..

ken ct · 12-08-2012, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BUBBAS IGNITION

Love them and they are stainless. I used to spend a lot of time cleaning up the old take out screws.
The allens lets us "old guys" hold on to the screw better as well..

Yea mine are also SS as are all the other screws in and on the carbs. I use "Apple Valley Stainless" for them,buy them by the 100's. Hes got good prices and great guy to deal with.In Ind. or Ill. cant find a bill from him right now. More info if you want? ken ct. Stocks all correct heads for me. Mostly fillister slots on carbs. But can get anything you want.

BUBBAS IGNITION · 12-08-2012, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ken ct

Yea mine are also SS as are all the other screws in and on the carbs. I use "Apple Valley Stainless" for them,buy them by the 100's. Hes got good prices and great guy to deal with.In Ind. or Ill. cant find a bill from him right now. More info if you want? ken ct. Stocks all correct heads for me. Mostly fillister slots on carbs. But can get anything you want.

We use McMaster Carrr in Chicago Ill, amazing huge catlog and one day delivery to us......also on line as well.....

ken ct · 12-08-2012, 04:35 PM

Yea ive gone into there catalogs often.I like to keep the little guys in business.As he vends a lot of the same shows i do so hes easy to do business with. In person or over the phone. ken ct.

Ian NZ · 12-08-2012, 06:52 PM

When you order these allen screws what do you ask for regarding the thread size as I could do with a few. Ken you supplied me with 4 when I bought some points of you some time ago and they are great.

12-06-2012, 03:51 PM	#1
BUBBAS IGNITION Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: SPEEDWAY INDIANA Posts: 4,148	Distributor talk..... After doing vintage ignition at the Newport Hillclimb for 30 plus years i got to say i still learn something every day or so in regards to the correct and kinda correct way of doing stuff. At our shop there are actually 5 of us doing distributors.in one respect or another and we have been pretty busy for a month or two. Four are part time employees with approx one day a week etc... Terry and Shelly ( we call her the bean) are our teardown and clean up crew doing the cleaning, polishing and painting of all the parts. Walt and Doug each do a day building the units ( after being cleaned etc). Walt and Doug are mechanics and work beside me at the bench. Just yesterday Walt and i had a conversation on the early Ford distributors and we decided we thought we knew a lot about them and really didnt know hardly any thing!! This board and its members feed us tons of information that we can apply to our builds every day. So for that we thank each and every one of you !!! That brings up a couple points : ( no pun intended ) I took a call yesterday from a customer that had just recieved his two bolt crab unit. He was very happy with the look etc of the unit and he complemented me on the work man ship. Then he told me he had to send it back ( or at the very least readjust it) based on what him and his neighbor had decided after a visual inspection !! It appeared to them that the contact spacing was different per set of contacts and they could adjust to even them out !!! I asked if they had ran the unit and he said not yet. I then asked if they had adjusted the points and he said no. WOW thats great , DONT ! Just install and run the unit as if was calibrated on a test machine and was as perfect as could posibly be to which he agreed ! Whew glad he called . Thats what prompted this post on the Ford barn... I am referencing the actual Ford service bulliten from the manual in regards to setting up the dual points in the early Fords on a test machine versus using feeler gauges. I will use this two bolt crab as a reference point and quote the Ford papers as we go to explain the logic.. Looking at the distributor we have a right and left side of contacts. Right being the pass side and left being the drivers side as installed in the car. The left side is adjusted first ( with the right side being blocked off) and the left side controls the actual spark timing. This adjustment is done running with a dwell meter at a spec of 27 degrees ( or 60 %). Thats 60% of a possible 45 degree distributor cam angle. The most correct adjustment that could be done !!! Once this left side is locked down then the other side is adjusted to a total ( both sets working ) of 36 degrees. ( again the most correct adjustment that can be done). This assures the distributor is correct as a whole regardless of spacing . The left side correct and arcing will occur mainly on left side and no danger of incorrect left side point gap!! Just for grins i checked four of these today before wrapping for shipment with a feeler gauge . They checked very close to .011 on each set of contacts ! Using my Motor manual with a spec of .014 to .016 using a feeler gauge on the bench the timing would be ok to run but still be off quite a bit.. So when you get one of our units , drive it and let me know how she runs , but dont change the settings no matter how it looks !!! OK... __________________ If it Makes Spark, we do it !!!! www.bubbasignition.com [email protected]

12-06-2012, 08:13 PM	#2
Brendan Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: At my kitchen table in Santa Rosa, Ca Posts: 2,903	Re: Distributor talk..... it looks nice to me! I have a question, could a Ford run on one set of points? I was just wondering....Brendan __________________ If it would have been a snake it would have bit ya! i can't spell my way out of a paper bag!

12-07-2012, 07:31 AM	#4
Harylufa Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina! Posts: 356	Re: Distributor talk..... Bubba! Distributor looks great and what you mentioned above is very interesting, please keep explaining more more important tips, I want to learn. Thank for sharing Hary __________________ I love my Ford V8 1946! Harylufa!

12-07-2012, 07:45 AM	#5
Frank Miller Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Auburn, MA Posts: 2,106	Re: Distributor talk..... Correct me if I am wrong but I believe dual points increase the dwell time or the time the points are closed and decrease the time it takes them to close after firing the plug. So as long as the primary are set correct and the dwell time is met then the distributor is set upproperly. I think the timing of the second set of points determines the final gap. __________________ “The technique of infamy is to start two lies at once and get people arguing heatedly over which is true.” ~ Ezra Pound

12-08-2012, 01:21 AM	#7
coolcoupe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: ontario,Canada Posts: 451	Re: Distributor talk..... Looking at the distributor laying on the bench the point used for timing would be on the right, correct ?

12-08-2012, 01:31 PM	#12
hardtimes Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South California Posts: 6,188	Re: Distributor talk..... Hey Jim, Thanks for sharing that info! Hm, soon as I get the next carcass helmet, it's coming to you , unless I score one that you've already done finished !

12-08-2012, 02:32 PM	#13
Hoop Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Jacksonville FL Posts: 1,137	Re: Distributor talk..... I'm having a hard time finding the 27 degree spec on distributors after 1935. What I'm finding is 22 1/2. Are there later changes that I have not seen? Per Ford Bulletins: http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attach...8&d=1343915481 Per Mac Van Pelt's site: 1932 18 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2 4° BTDC 400 .012-.014" 1933 40 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2 4° BTDC 400 .012-.014" 1934 40 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2 4° BTDC 400 .012-.014" 1935 48 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2 4° BTDC 400 .012-.014" 1936 68 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2 4° BTDC 400 .012-.014" 1937 77 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2 4° BTDC 400 .014-.016" 1938 81A 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2 4° BTDC 400 .014-.016" 1939 91A 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2 4° BTDC 400 .014-.016" 1940 01A 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2 4° BTDC 400 .014-.016" 1941 11A 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2 4° BTDC 400 .014-.016" 1942 21A 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2 4° BTDC 400 .014-.016" 1946 69A 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2 4° BTDC 400 .014-.016" 1947 79A 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2 4° BTDC 400 .014-.016" 1948 89A 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2 4° BTDC 400 .014-.016" __________________ "Remember that when it comes to intelligence, half of all of us are below average."

12-08-2012, 02:44 PM	#14
BUBBAS IGNITION Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: SPEEDWAY INDIANA Posts: 4,148	Re: Distributor talk..... Hoop, I think you are correct that the gaps and dwell changed with the crabs etc. Using my motor manual the final setting was still 36 as a total. Thats pretty much where we leave them as a total. The intial left side setting may need to be a little lower. However we have had very good performance out them using the 26-27 left side settings. Still very difficult to adjust with a feeler gauge.... __________________ If it Makes Spark, we do it !!!! www.bubbasignition.com [email protected]

12-08-2012, 03:23 PM	#15
Hoop Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Jacksonville FL Posts: 1,137	Re: Distributor talk..... Jim, Agree, of course. I suspect that initial performance would not be an issue, but that "creeping" point gap due to rubbing block wear MIGHT be more of a reason for the change. Possibly several years of experience in the early 30's might have shown a slight increase in intervals between tune-ups could be gained by increasing the gap. The original 27 degree spec had to have been well-tested prior to introduction. ... but that's a guess. (Alan usually knows the history of this stuff.) __________________ "Remember that when it comes to intelligence, half of all of us are below average."

12-08-2012, 04:35 PM	#19
ken ct BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: stratford,ct Posts: 5,971	Re: Distributor talk..... Yea ive gone into there catalogs often.I like to keep the little guys in business.As he vends a lot of the same shows i do so hes easy to do business with. In person or over the phone. ken ct.

12-08-2012, 06:52 PM	#20
Ian NZ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Taranaki, New Zealand Posts: 922	Re: Distributor talk..... When you order these allen screws what do you ask for regarding the thread size as I could do with a few. Ken you supplied me with 4 when I bought some points of you some time ago and they are great.