The Ford Barn

31 Model A · 02-07-2017, 07:09 PM

Doubt if there is any comparison 'facts' but some may know more than others....

What would you say has a higher longevity percentage still on the road today...

Early Fords vs Early others of the same year? Example, 1931 Model A Ford vs 1931 Chevrolet or other manufactured 'American made cars'?

CarlG · 02-07-2017, 07:12 PM

Ford hands down. We have one token '30 Chevy and one '28 Chevy in our club, around 200 Fords (28-31)

Kevin in NJ · 02-07-2017, 07:20 PM

Simple the Fords.

The others cars just did not hold up. The bodies were all metal nailed to wood and the parts were not as robust.

Early 30 saw a big change as the other manufacturers adopted Fords metals and construction

Y-Blockhead · 02-07-2017, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin in NJ

The others cars just did not hold up. The bodies were all metal nailed to wood.

And some Fords weren't??

31 Model A · 02-07-2017, 09:13 PM

Taking into consideration just how many Model A Ford Clubs there are throughout the USA and abroad alone, I agree, now brings me to the next question..............Why doesn't the Ford Motor Company capitalize on that when it comes to advertising Ford cars and trucks today? Seems to me they are passing up some great advertising opportunities highlighting Model As rolling on down the roads and highways still today. How many here would love to be a part of a Ford commercial driving your As? No need to answer that, I'm sure I know the answer...........

Hoogah · 02-07-2017, 09:42 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 31 Model A

.........Why doesn't the Ford Motor Company capitalize on that when it comes to advertising Ford cars and trucks today? Seems to me they are passing up some great advertising opportunities highlighting Model As rolling on down the roads and highways still today.......

Unfortunately, even awesome performance from something built 87 years ago doesn't translate to a similar outcome from another product built using a raft of technologies that weren't even dreamt about in 1928, even if made by the same company. I bet we could all name some more recent Ford products that haven't stood the test of time. There goes your good will!

But I reckon you already knew that!

The use of a Model A in an advert could perhaps invoke a warm fuzzy reaction from those who remember driving them first time around, but not many of these centenarians are buying cars!

31 Model A · 02-07-2017, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoogah

Unfortunately, even awesome performance from something built 87 years ago doesn't translate to a similar outcome from another product built using a raft of technologies that weren't even dreamt about in 1928, even if made by the same company. I bet we could all name some more recent Ford products that haven't stood the test of time. There goes your good will!

But I reckon you already knew that!

The use of a Model A in an advert could perhaps invoke a warm fuzzy reaction from those who remember driving them first time around, but not many of these centenarians are buying cars!

The power of presentation is what sells anything if the product is presented in a positive way. Just the idea of a 85 year old Model A rolling on down the road would be a strong selling point for Ford.....I would think but....I'm not the CEO.

Tom Wesenberg · 02-08-2017, 12:42 AM

Seems most Americans don't care about the past. This is very much a tear down, throw away society. Waste is the name of the game. Just today I rode with my neighbor to the recycling yard where he wanted to throw out some cardboard boxes. In the large tires dumpster next to the cardboard dumpster were two brand new 8" tires mounted on 4 bolt rims. I grabbed them and threw them in Joe's van, even though I don't think they wanted anything to be removed. It's sure better to use them instead of see them get shredded and sent to China.

DougVieyra · 02-08-2017, 01:23 AM

Like the ubiquitous Model T the vast numbers of production (apx.15 million) and of quality construction, has allowed the ubiquitous VW air-cooled Volkswagen Beetle (Bug) to outlast all comers. With over 25 million units having been built in its 40 year run it is still driven by millions of drivers throughout the world. I bought my '69 Bug in 1970 and have driven it constantly from 1970 up to this very day. And I am only one of hundreds of thousands in this country alone !

Having been designed by Ferdinand Porsche (sp?) in 1936 and put into production in 1938, the lowly (like the Ford Model T) VW Beetle has spread over the entire world and is still a staple of basic transportation for millions of people.

Capt Quahog · 02-08-2017, 02:33 AM

The Model A Ford - Volkswagen Beetle comparison does not work. The scenario, historical context and most other aspects are totally different.

There is also no comparison for the high quality Model A Ford and Volkswagen beetle which was flimsy, weak and inherently defective. The VW was a post-war expediency, derived from the pre-war Porsche Nazi "People's Car". The 1936 era prototype for the recognizable 1938 VW was actually developed by the Ford Motor Car Company. On a visit by Doctor Porsche to Detroit, Henry Ford simply handed over the plans to his beetle shaped, air-cooled X-Car. The so-called X-Car project had been put on the shelf sometime before. There is no doubt that the later Volkswagen beetle was derived from the Ford X-Car.

From the 1960s - 1970s, the streets of America were filled with VW Bug automobiles. It was almost like a hysteria! By the 1980s, most VW bugs had disappeared from the scene. The cars were dangerous in an accident, bumpers were only symbolic deals and it's 40-hp engine couldn't get out of it's own way. Driven at sustained highway speeds over about 55 mph would kill the motor. Back in the 1970s, the former wife blew up the engines in two VW beetles driving at over 65 mph on Interstate 95 in Massachusetts. Body rot set in soon on those cars and they weren't worth fixing!

Have owned NINE (9) Model A Fords and about the same number Volkswagen cars.

Those VWs owned included . . . a 1944 type 82 "Kubelwagen" military recon car, (rare) 1951 USA imported sun-roof beetle. Other bugs included 1953, 1958, 1961, 1964 convertible bug and 1965. Yes . . . back in those days, for some misguided reason, I was "into" VW cars. Had just one 1971 VW bus which was only bought to fast flip for quick profit. The two NEW "air cooled" VWs were a 1973 type 181 "Thing" and a 1974 "Super Beetle". Both were gotten rid of within a short time of purchase. Remember on that 74 super beetle having the cable connection fixture under the gasoline peddle breaking on a regular basis. After getting stuck the first time, I carried a couple of spare cables. Got so handy at this, that in the dark, would remove old cable, attach new one to gas peddle lever and fish the thing through that channel to the back of the car into the engine compartment. There, the other fixture would hook into the carburetor.

Last year, a neighbor wanted to give me an old 1960s VW beetle that had been knocking around his family for awhile. The car ran and as soon as he started the thing, told him . . . No Thanks". Don't need any more trash around here.

As primitive and simple as it is, the high quality Model A Ford lives on and will for a long time to come.

Cornishman · 02-08-2017, 03:00 AM

Let's get things straight. The Model A Ford was a mass produced vehicle assembled to a price that would appeal to the emerging car buying public of the day. It was simple and robust but that was the way that that things were done back then. Stand one next to a prestige, hand built car of the day, a Rolls Royce, Bentley or even a Renault and the differences in quality are glowingly apparent. It is amazing that so many Model A's have remained on the road but a lot of that has to do with the fact that so many were around and that they were built before the throw way society existed.
VW Beetles were never my thing but their build quality was admirable. I always preferred the Citroën 2CV which were in production from the 1930s to the 1980s. It's interesting that the previous poster criticises the power output of the Beetle yet presumably drives a Model A with a lot lot less power and more weight. Tunnel vision?

Synchro909 · 02-08-2017, 03:12 AM

As I understand it, the VW beetle took the title of most cars produced from the Model T years ago but the Corollas of today are nothing like the utilitarian models of the 60's. The Beetle also changed during its lifetime but less than the Corolla while the T hardly changed. Maybe because of Henry's intransigence?

DougVieyra · 02-08-2017, 03:25 AM

Capt Quahog, post 10, makes some salient points. However, none of them touches the topic in question - The initial question in post #1, was what car has "a higher longevity percentage still on the road today". Nothing is asked about quality or any other issue. Just - which car has the highest percentage of manufactured cars still on the road today. My comments about the VW are quite sound.

Of all of the marques ever made, which has the highest percentage still on the road today. The air-cooled Volkswagen is at the top of the heap.

However I do recognize that the question does leave room for some puzzlement as to what exactly is being asked. "Higher longevity percentage" leaves room for confusion as to what is actually being asked. The word "longevity" does cloud the meaning. "Longevity" makes my think of the Ford Model T (1909). If we are asking what has the highest percentage of survivors still being driven today, I would say VW, as the Model T does have 'longevity' but lacks "higher percentage" of production still being driven today. The "still on the road today" (which I take to mean, cars being driven regularly) , to my mind puts the VW firmly in First Place. The Model T is a special occasion driver, whereas the VW Beetle is an everyday 'driver' - and the car that began production in 1938 (VW) is still being driven daily by the millions.

- Synchro, post 12: " the T hardly changed"
---------------
Not quite true. Ask a Model T man. The jump from a 1909 Model T and the 1927 Model T is quite huge. None of the body parts are interchangeable, and significant 'evolutionary' improvements continued throughout Model T production. The same thing can be said about the VW. The two cars are alike in many ways, as to their 'fit' into a market niche and time in history.

31 Model A · 02-08-2017, 07:59 AM

I know about the mass produced post-war VW Beetles and they became to represent a different time in 'world' History, that's why I put the Model A up against other American made cars and trucks:

"Early Fords vs Early others of the same year? Example, 1931 Model A Ford vs 1931 Chevrolet or other manufactured 'American made cars'? "

I had a VW Beetle myself, bought it off the showroom floor in 1970, fire engine red convertible. It was far better than the Beetles themselves....I hated the Beetles!!!!!

I just think it's a wasted opportunity for Ford today to pass up in advertising a product that turn eyes still today. In the 70s, Ford had a bad reputation, FORD, "Found on Road Daily", FORD, "Fix or Repair Daily". Not today..............so FORD!!!!!! For your suggestion box.....Take what you have today, put it up against what you made from 28-31 and go with it......
__________________

frank mcdaniels · 02-08-2017, 08:31 AM

My father (who is 90 now) and I used to have this conversation when I was younger.Why did the Model A outlast the other cars of the era? He always used the argument that the chevys had more wood and were flimsier. The Model A had lots of wood also I would tell him. But there was just something about the Model A that couldn't be explained. They had more character, They had soul.I remember as a child in the late 50s and early 60s ,I nerver got tired of just looking at photos of Model As. There was just a feeling that overcame me and I never got tired of just looking at them.I never got that feeling from looking at any other brand of car.Somehow Ford just got the perfect balance of practability and design, and people feel in love with the Model A. I think this is why so many lasted to this present day. Anyway that's my theory. Have a good day. Frank-in very cold today Minnesota.

Marshall V. Daut · 02-08-2017, 09:12 AM

Ford DID harken back to its Model A days in the 1970's advertising when it paired the Model A in print ads with - all of things! - the infamous Pinto! Look at magazines from that era that ran new car advertising pages and you'll see side-by-side photos of a Model A Coupe (usually) and a NEW Pinto. Talk about going from the sublime to the ridiculous! The Pinto in these ads hadn't blown up yet upon being tapped from behind.

Surviving Chevies might be the second highest survivors among "antique cars", not counting the VW Bug, which I have a hard time accepting as an antique. It's just an old "modern" car to me. Besides, their manufacturing run was longer than the Model T's. The Model T and Model A must be FAR ahead of the Bowtie, however. There was a slew of Chevies made and they were Ford's closest class and price competitor. But as we all know, they didn't make the grade in terms of survivability because of the cheap materials used in their construction until the mid-1930's. Planned obsolescence, ala Alfred Sloan's philosophy. Chevies in the 20's had two undeniable survival killers in the cone clutch that quickly wore out and the soft metal rear axles that constantly broke. Owners carried spare axles under their seats because it was so common for them to break. Unlike Ford, Chevy rear axles could be swapped beside the road fairly easily. Yes, Fisher made bodies with structural wood, but so did Ford. It's funny how you hear old timers talk about how Chevies rotted from the inside and the sheet metal simply fell off or caved in, yet we don't hear such horror stories about Model T's and A's until decades after they had been made. Rotting Chevy body stories popped up even during their prime years! 'Can't explain the difference, but it's clear that even the wooden structural Model A's and T's survived in proportionately greater numbers than their #1 competitor, Chevrolet.
As far as WHY FoMoCo and dealers don't actively promote the Model T and A, say you as a consumer have an extra $15,000+ of discretionary money to spend on a car. What would Ford dealers gain by trumpeting up the virtues of a car made 85 to 100 years ago for you to buy instead of spending that same money on one of their hundreds of new cars in stock sitting on the showroom floor and in their lots? There's zero profit in it for them. It's a money thing that gains them nothing. So, of course they will not want to draw attention away from their merchandise by glorifying cars they do not reap any profits from in private sales. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Marshall

SeaSlugs · 02-08-2017, 09:14 AM

One of those turning points in history that would be interesting to theorize about is what if the great depression never happened nor WW2 when car production stopped? How many auto makers would we have today if 2/3 of them didnt go bankrupt in 1930's? Would people have kept thier T &A's if they weren't forced to?

People clung to what they had because they couldn't afford/get anything newer. Maybe it was the "hey this thing just keeps on running" or its easy to fix yet robust mentality/reality that was forced upon people. Once the depression started picking back up and ww2 ended sure people traded them in or junked them but alot just quietly tucked them away for the "what if it happens again" moment. Alot of people from the depression era hoarded anything that still had some kind of value left in it or could be used to do another job (how many homemade tools/generators/grain elevators etc have we seen made out of model A parts?)
.

As to modern day fords and their advertising I dont have alot of hope with modern day cars...Whole aluminum truck thing is gonna get interesting in 10 years.

Marshall V. Daut · 02-08-2017, 09:38 AM

"SeaSlugs" brings up some interesting "what if?" points to ponder and speculate on. A previous poster also mentioned how people became attached to their Model A's and especially their Model T "Tin Lizzies". These cars became almost a member of the family. Who ever heard anyone talk about Chevies like that back then? They were simply transportation, not a family member. The Model A's and T's had a personality somehow lacking in Chevies that endeared them to their owners. Of course their were lovers of Chevies even then - and now! How else would the company have survived? Perhaps the Great Depression and the ration-filled WWII years did force people to hang onto their cars longer than they would have otherwise done in good times, but I would still bet a sizeable proportion of owners would have kept their old Fords more than Chevies. Look how many continue to be found in old barns and forgotten storage places even to this day, loving placed their by their owners, even though the cars may no longer have been in running order! People just couldn't bring themselves to junk their old friend, so they stored them away. One rarely hears about a cache of old Chevies being discovered. Chevies back then were made with the expressed intent of being consumables, while Fords were built for the long haul. A comparison of survival rates between the two marques proves this beyond question.
Marshall

Keith True · 02-08-2017, 10:15 AM

In the 70's I was told by the older garage guys that the A survived because of the fuel mileage.They were only 15 years old or so at the time of war,and they just got the best.I have an A that my family obtained just for that reason.They gave their Chryslers and Plymouths to the scrap drives,and bought the A.At least around here an A was THE car to have during the war.Right after the war scrap had zero value,so there was no point in scrapping them after that.Where I am the wood did play a huge factor,a good wood framed Fordor is a hard thing to find here.

JohnLaVoy · 02-08-2017, 10:40 AM

Ford does pay attention to the Model A. here is a picture of my 1931 roadster pick up displayed in the Ford booth at the Specialty Equipment Marketing Association show in Las Vegas in 2012. This car was built at the request of Ford Motor Company. I did catch Dennis Gage looking at it too!

Dick Steinkamp · 02-08-2017, 10:54 AM

Dodge did a series of ads a couple of years ago that featured their history. Here are a few...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en0hElJ6PfY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4OpmiT24lw

Chevy did a bunch at their 100th anniversary. Here's one...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wK8nHn095I8

Terry, NJ · 02-08-2017, 11:29 AM

Oh Yeah? Our local dealer in Doylestown and Bethlehem have large pictures, posters with model A s on them on the sales floor! Who says they aren't using the Model A as a sales tool. True, they didn't roll one onto the floor (As I would have) But they did the next best thing, a poster. in 2003, I felt Ford was missing the boat by not coming up with a commemorative model. Say a 32 roadster with a modern V8, much like our rifle companies are doing almost endlessly. A big seller? No. A great wish list item? Yes! All those wonderful looks coupled with a modern engine. And from the factory, not some hot rodders backyard. I don't have the figures, but I understand that at some point, Essex was catching up to Chevy for the low priced market. I knew someone who acquired a 1920 Essex touring car, of which 12 were known to exist, 1978, his being the thirteenth. So if there were all these Essex' around where are they today? I think in the late twenties, people had had it with Ford T's. I know my father's cousin had at least two and wanted something else so he bought a chevy, a 29 and it broke axles regularly. At some point, he had a something he called a "Square wheel Dodge". That one must have rode hard to get that name. And he had a Willys Knight with a sleeve valve engine. Where is that today?
Terry

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshall V. Daut

Ford DID harken back to its Model A days in the 1970's advertising when it paired the Model A in print ads with - all of things! - the infamous Pinto! Look at magazines from that era that ran new car advertising pages and you'll see side-by-side photos of a Model A Coupe (usually) and a NEW Pinto. Talk about going from the sublime to the ridiculous! The Pinto in these ads hadn't blown up yet upon being tapped from behind.

Surviving Chevies might be the second highest survivors among "antique cars", not counting the VW Bug, which I have a hard time accepting as an antique. It's just an old "modern" car to me. Besides, their manufacturing run was longer than the Model T's. The Model T and Model A must be FAR ahead of the Bowtie, however. There was a slew of Chevies made and they were Ford's closest class and price competitor. But as we all know, they didn't make the grade in terms of survivability because of the cheap materials used in their construction until the mid-1930's. Planned obsolescence, ala Alfred Sloan's philosophy. Chevies in the 20's had two undeniable survival killers in the cone clutch that quickly wore out and the soft metal rear axles that constantly broke. Owners carried spare axles under their seats because it was so common for them to break. Unlike Ford, Chevy rear axles could be swapped beside the road fairly easily. Yes, Fisher made bodies with structural wood, but so did Ford. It's funny how you hear old timers talk about how Chevies rotted from the inside and the sheet metal simply fell off or caved in, yet we don't hear such horror stories about Model T's and A's until decades after they had been made. Rotting Chevy body stories popped up even during their prime years! 'Can't explain the difference, but it's clear that even the wooden structural Model A's and T's survived in proportionately greater numbers than their #1 competitor, Chevrolet.
As far as WHY FoMoCo and dealers don't actively promote the Model T and A, say you as a consumer have an extra $15,000+ of discretionary money to spend on a car. What would Ford dealers gain by trumpeting up the virtues of a car made 85 to 100 years ago for you to buy instead of spending that same money on one of their hundreds of new cars in stock sitting on the showroom floor and in their lots? There's zero profit in it for them. It's a money thing that gains them nothing. So, of course they will not want to draw attention away from their merchandise by glorifying cars they do not reap any profits from in private sales. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Marshall

31 Model A · 02-08-2017, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dick Steinkamp

Dodge did a series of ads a couple of years ago that featured their history. Here are a few...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en0hElJ6PfY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4OpmiT24lw

Chevy did a bunch at their 100th anniversary. Here's one...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wK8nHn095I8

Exactly!!!! Where da Model A Ford??????????????? Ken Burns could make documentary just on the Model A (maybe Model B or two) and Ford would love it!!!!! But Ken Burns would rake in the money...not Ford.

31 Model A · 02-08-2017, 02:08 PM

BTW!!!! I've read that some Ford dealerships are starting to get in on Model A Day by having a display on their lots, moving today's models off to the side.

CarlG · 02-08-2017, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 31 Model A

BTW!!!! I've read that some Ford dealerships are starting to get in on Model A Day by having a display on their lots, moving today's models off to the side.

We tried that a couple years ago, but the (then) local Ford dealer didn't want the bother, and didn't want to give up their precious show room space. Maybe time to re-visit the situation since the dealership is under new ownership.

H. L. Chauvin · 02-08-2017, 03:25 PM

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Hi 31,

Many different reasons A's are still among us. Here are just a few I always "heard" about.

Model A's from 1929 until 1931 had many simple reasons to be so very popular in their day; for example:

1. The low asking price of A's was important at a depression time when there were massive soup lines, people going to bed with no food, and high unemployment rates.

2. In a short period, with so many A's on the road, non-ford inexpensive parts companies sprung up everywhere, where non-ford inexpensive A parts were affordable for the inexpensive A's.

3. Later, when WWI broke out, and cars were no longer manufactured, "Barn Finds" were a very popular life saver for family transportation, and could be made fully operational with lots of inexpensive non-ford A parts at all parts store.

4. Some citizens were so poor when WWII broke out, later, they bought inexpensive junk cars from junk yards where America witnessed a partial A resurrection.

5. Then, after WWII, with so many Depression Minded conservative citizens, many A's became the middle income family's second car, again easily maintained with non-ford inexpensive parts; and many used A's became poor family's first car.

6. Then total A Restoration using Judging Standards started to become popular. "Barn Finds" were handled differently.

Not nearly all of the reasons, but just a few "heard" reasons.

DougVieyra · 02-08-2017, 03:49 PM

The reason that the Ford Model A has outlived its 1920's & '30's competitors is easy to explain. Henry Ford.

Unlike all the other car manufacturers, Henry Ford owned the Ford Motor Company all by himself (well, he did spin off a small amount of stock to his wife and son). As such he could build an 'automobile for the masses'. Beside Henry Ford being a billionaire capitalist, he was first and foremost a socialist. He believed in the dignity of man and built a car for the common man. As such he was counter to the mainline philosophy of the day - $ $ $ - making money was the bottom line for all the other manufacturers. For Henry Ford, it was making the very best car at the lowest possible cost. He wanted a car of the highest quality, that could be maintained by the owner himself.

As such, every part of the 5,000 or so parts that made up the Ford Model A, was thoroughly 'vetted' for maximum value and longevity of life. One example of Henry's zealot-like fanaticism in building long-lived quality and ease of maintenance was the designing and manufacturing of the Zenith Carburetor. Anyone who has read about Henry's devotion to just this one component will quickly see why the Ford Model A has survived in such numbers and to such lasting 'drivability', that we see today.

When you own the manufacturing facility - lock, stock and barrel - entirely by yourself alone, you can (as Frank Sinatra would say) do it your way. Henry had no Board of Directors to account to. Henry had no Stock Holders to account to. Henry had only his own conscience and belief in his 'car for the masses'. He built the Model A for the people, not for the stock holders.

Dale G. · 02-08-2017, 07:00 PM

I researched this subject in the past about comparing chevys' to Model A's during production. Chevrolets out sold Model A's in 30,31, and 32. My father was a Chevrolet man during this period and liked them, only because the closest Ford dealer was sixty miles away from where he lived but the Chevrolet dealer was in his town. Anyway, I found that the wood in the bodies of Chevrolets was pine vs. oak and ash from Iron Mountain. Pine rots fast in the elements. So in my estimation, that is the reason there are a lot less Chevrolets around.

Peyton · 02-08-2017, 08:59 PM

My records indicate that Ford outsold Chevy in 1930!

Dick Steinkamp · 02-08-2017, 09:57 PM

"The Great Depression began, but Ford sold 4.5 million thrifty Model A's before production ceased in 1931. While other businesses disintegrated and failed, Ford was still selling a lot of cars. Ford outsold Chevy in 1929 and 1930, although Chevy was back on top from 1931 through 1933."

https://axleaddict.com/auto-industry...ury-of-Rivalry

"Then came eight ping-pong years. The lead flipped back and forth -- Chevy in 1928, Ford in 1929 and 1930, Chevy again in 1931-34 and Ford in 1935."

http://www.autonews.com/article/2011...-for-a-century

DougVieyra · 02-08-2017, 09:57 PM

Dale G, post 28 - "the wood in the bodies of Chevrolets was pine".
---------------------------------------------

That may very well be true. However, not-with-standing that, every one of the 8 wood-framed bodies I have owned, including a 1928 Chevrolet and a 1932 Chevrolet, had Oak in their framing - NOT pine. I have found no instance where pine was used in the making of wood framing for bodies of cars made in the 1920's and 1930's.

As making wood-framed bodies was a carry-over from the earlier days of carriage making, only hard woods were used - both in the carriages and the automobiles. Of course, as the years went by, I suspect that many a 'shade-tree mechanic' would repair the rotting and damaged oak wood with what ever wood was handy and during the hard years of the Depression, cheap. Pine is about the cheapest wood there is. And too, Pine is the easiest wood to work with.

None-the-less, even hard Oak wood can not stand up to the rigors of both weather and the twists and turns of a constantly flexing body. As cars of the '20s and '30's became obsolete they were treated with little deference, often sitting outside like the orphans they were. And for wood-bodied cars, it was a death knell.

René W · 02-12-2017, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capt Quahog

The Model A Ford - Volkswagen Beetle comparison does not work. The scenario, historical context and most other aspects are totally different.

There is also no comparison for the high quality Model A Ford and Volkswagen beetle which was flimsy, weak and inherently defective. The VW was a post-war expediency, derived from the pre-war Porsche Nazi "People's Car". The 1936 era prototype for the recognizable 1938 VW was actually developed by the Ford Motor Car Company. On a visit by Doctor Porsche to Detroit, Henry Ford simply handed over the plans to his beetle shaped, air-cooled X-Car. The so-called X-Car project had been put on the shelf sometime before. There is no doubt that the later Volkswagen beetle was derived from the Ford X-Car.

A friend of mine is a huge beetle fan,when i told him this he almost exploded,can you proof this with pictures or documents please?
Now he is talking about "fake news"
René

Synchro909 · 02-12-2017, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by René W

A friend of mine is a huge beetle fan,when i told him this he almost exploded,can you proof this with pictures or documents please?
Now he is talking about "fake news"
René

I think this is the part that caused your friend's near explosion:
"On a visit by Doctor Porsche to Detroit, Henry Ford simply handed over the plans to his beetle shaped, air-cooled X-Car. The so-called X-Car project had been put on the shelf sometime before. There is no doubt that the later Volkswagen beetle was derived from the Ford X-Car."
When I read that, I was disbelieving to say the least. Fake news? Maybe "Alternative facts"

mhsprecher · 02-12-2017, 06:06 PM

There are a couple of letters and articles in the most recent issue of the Lincoln Zephyr Club mag about Porsche seeing the John Tjaarda/Briggs LZ prototype with a rear engine at the Briggs studios. This information came from Tjaarda's daughter plus some information from his son from an article written in 2002. No direct attribution, but a lot of circumstantial evidence that the prototype LZ influenced the Beetle.

René W · 02-12-2017, 06:15 PM

Are there pictures of the LZ prototype?

denis4x4 · 02-12-2017, 06:21 PM

I used to buy all of my Fords at Drew Motors in La Mesa and always enjoyed looking at the photo of Henry Ford presenting Joe Drew the franchise papers. Usually an A and T truck in the show room. Now part of the Penske Group. Posted a photo of Drew's A here several years ago and there were a dozen or more posts pointing out all of the things wrong with it! The "round house of values" building was a clone of the Ford rotunda in Detroit.

As an ad guy in the automotive aftermarket industry for 40 years, I wouldn't waste the money or space in a current Ford print or tv ad to include an A! Memories and nostalgia don't sell like some here might think.

René W · 02-12-2017, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by René W

Are there pictures of the LZ prototype?

Found it

Y-Blockhead · 02-12-2017, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by René W

Found it

Looks similar to a Tatra. I had read that Dr. Porsche borrowed designs from Tatra, ie rear mounted air cooled flat 4 engines.

From Wikipedia... Tatra and the conception of the Volkswagen Beetle
Both Hitler and Porsche were influenced by the Tatras. Hitler was a keen automotive enthusiast, and had ridden in Tatras during political tours of Czechoslovakia. He had also dined numerous times with Ledwinka. After one of these dinners Hitler remarked to Porsche, "This is the car for my roads". From 1933 onwards, Ledwinka and Porsche met regularly to discuss their designs, and Porsche admitted "Well, sometimes I looked over his shoulder and sometimes he looked over mine" while designing the Volkswagen. There is no doubt that the Beetle bore a striking resemblance to the Tatras, particularly the Tatra V570. The Tatra T97 of 1936 had a rear-located, rear-wheel drive, air-cooled four-cylinder boxer engine accommodating four passengers and providing luggage storage under the front bonnet and behind the rear seat. Another similarity between this Tatra and the Beetle is the central structural tunnel. Tatra launched a lawsuit, but this was stopped when Germany invaded Czechoslovakia. At the same time, Tatra was forced to stop producing the T97. The matter was re-opened after World War II and in 1965 Volkswagen paid Ringhoffer-Tatra 1,000,000 Deutsche Marks in an out of court settlement.

Synchro909 · 02-12-2017, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by René W

Found it

Could just as well say that the beetle was influenced by the Chrysler Airflow!

mhsprecher · 02-12-2017, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synchro909

Could just as well say that the beetle was influenced by the Chrysler Airflow!

True, but the Airflow was not rear-engined, like the prototype LZ was.

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...40&oe=5936A708

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...48&oe=59024703

02-07-2017, 07:12 PM	#2
CarlG Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 9,115	Re: Model A Ford Longivity Question Ford hands down. We have one token '30 Chevy and one '28 Chevy in our club, around 200 Fords (28-31) __________________ Alaskan A's Antique Auto Mushers of Alaska Model A Ford Club of America Model A Restorers Club Antique Automobile Club of America Mullins Owner's Club

02-07-2017, 07:20 PM	#3
Kevin in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South East NJ Posts: 3,398	Re: Model A Ford Longivity Question Simple the Fords. The others cars just did not hold up. The bodies were all metal nailed to wood and the parts were not as robust. Early 30 saw a big change as the other manufacturers adopted Fords metals and construction

02-07-2017, 09:13 PM	#5
31 Model A Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Here I am in front of Todd's Grocery in 1931 selling Grit newspapers Posts: 2,548	Re: Model A Ford Longivity Question Taking into consideration just how many Model A Ford Clubs there are throughout the USA and abroad alone, I agree, now brings me to the next question..............Why doesn't the Ford Motor Company capitalize on that when it comes to advertising Ford cars and trucks today? Seems to me they are passing up some great advertising opportunities highlighting Model As rolling on down the roads and highways still today. How many here would love to be a part of a Ford commercial driving your As? No need to answer that, I'm sure I know the answer........... __________________ "Bullshit and Brilliance Comes with Age and Experience" "Hey Lady, ya wanna buy a Grit?" "If you don't learn to laugh at trouble, you won't have anything to laugh at when you're old" Will Rogers

02-08-2017, 12:42 AM	#8
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Model A Ford Longivity Question Seems most Americans don't care about the past. This is very much a tear down, throw away society. Waste is the name of the game. Just today I rode with my neighbor to the recycling yard where he wanted to throw out some cardboard boxes. In the large tires dumpster next to the cardboard dumpster were two brand new 8" tires mounted on 4 bolt rims. I grabbed them and threw them in Joe's van, even though I don't think they wanted anything to be removed. It's sure better to use them instead of see them get shredded and sent to China.

02-08-2017, 01:23 AM	#9
DougVieyra Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Eureka, California Posts: 1,716	Re: Model A Ford Longivity Question Like the ubiquitous Model T the vast numbers of production (apx.15 million) and of quality construction, has allowed the ubiquitous VW air-cooled Volkswagen Beetle (Bug) to outlast all comers. With over 25 million units having been built in its 40 year run it is still driven by millions of drivers throughout the world. I bought my '69 Bug in 1970 and have driven it constantly from 1970 up to this very day. And I am only one of hundreds of thousands in this country alone ! Having been designed by Ferdinand Porsche (sp?) in 1936 and put into production in 1938, the lowly (like the Ford Model T) VW Beetle has spread over the entire world and is still a staple of basic transportation for millions of people.

02-07-2017, 07:09 PM	#1
31 Model A Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Here I am in front of Todd's Grocery in 1931 selling Grit newspapers Posts: 2,548	Model A Ford Longivity Question Doubt if there is any comparison 'facts' but some may know more than others.... What would you say has a higher longevity percentage still on the road today... Early Fords vs Early others of the same year? Example, 1931 Model A Ford vs 1931 Chevrolet or other manufactured 'American made cars'? __________________ "Bullshit and Brilliance Comes with Age and Experience" "Hey Lady, ya wanna buy a Grit?" "If you don't learn to laugh at trouble, you won't have anything to laugh at when you're old" Will Rogers

02-08-2017, 02:33 AM	#10
Capt Quahog Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Barren windswept mountain somewhere in bleak Northeastern Pennsylvania Posts: 294	Re: Model A Ford Longivity Question The Model A Ford - Volkswagen Beetle comparison does not work. The scenario, historical context and most other aspects are totally different. There is also no comparison for the high quality Model A Ford and Volkswagen beetle which was flimsy, weak and inherently defective. The VW was a post-war expediency, derived from the pre-war Porsche Nazi "People's Car". The 1936 era prototype for the recognizable 1938 VW was actually developed by the Ford Motor Car Company. On a visit by Doctor Porsche to Detroit, Henry Ford simply handed over the plans to his beetle shaped, air-cooled X-Car. The so-called X-Car project had been put on the shelf sometime before. There is no doubt that the later Volkswagen beetle was derived from the Ford X-Car. From the 1960s - 1970s, the streets of America were filled with VW Bug automobiles. It was almost like a hysteria! By the 1980s, most VW bugs had disappeared from the scene. The cars were dangerous in an accident, bumpers were only symbolic deals and it's 40-hp engine couldn't get out of it's own way. Driven at sustained highway speeds over about 55 mph would kill the motor. Back in the 1970s, the former wife blew up the engines in two VW beetles driving at over 65 mph on Interstate 95 in Massachusetts. Body rot set in soon on those cars and they weren't worth fixing! Have owned NINE (9) Model A Fords and about the same number Volkswagen cars. Those VWs owned included . . . a 1944 type 82 "Kubelwagen" military recon car, (rare) 1951 USA imported sun-roof beetle. Other bugs included 1953, 1958, 1961, 1964 convertible bug and 1965. Yes . . . back in those days, for some misguided reason, I was "into" VW cars. Had just one 1971 VW bus which was only bought to fast flip for quick profit. The two NEW "air cooled" VWs were a 1973 type 181 "Thing" and a 1974 "Super Beetle". Both were gotten rid of within a short time of purchase. Remember on that 74 super beetle having the cable connection fixture under the gasoline peddle breaking on a regular basis. After getting stuck the first time, I carried a couple of spare cables. Got so handy at this, that in the dark, would remove old cable, attach new one to gas peddle lever and fish the thing through that channel to the back of the car into the engine compartment. There, the other fixture would hook into the carburetor. Last year, a neighbor wanted to give me an old 1960s VW beetle that had been knocking around his family for awhile. The car ran and as soon as he started the thing, told him . . . No Thanks". Don't need any more trash around here. As primitive and simple as it is, the high quality Model A Ford lives on and will for a long time to come. __________________ I wouldn't be so paranoid if people weren't plotting against me all the time

02-08-2017, 03:00 AM	#11
Cornishman Senior Member Join Date: May 2016 Location: Le Ravary, France Posts: 241	Re: Model A Ford Longivity Question Let's get things straight. The Model A Ford was a mass produced vehicle assembled to a price that would appeal to the emerging car buying public of the day. It was simple and robust but that was the way that that things were done back then. Stand one next to a prestige, hand built car of the day, a Rolls Royce, Bentley or even a Renault and the differences in quality are glowingly apparent. It is amazing that so many Model A's have remained on the road but a lot of that has to do with the fact that so many were around and that they were built before the throw way society existed. VW Beetles were never my thing but their build quality was admirable. I always preferred the Citroën 2CV which were in production from the 1930s to the 1980s. It's interesting that the previous poster criticises the power output of the Beetle yet presumably drives a Model A with a lot lot less power and more weight. Tunnel vision? Last edited by Cornishman; 02-08-2017 at 03:06 AM.

02-08-2017, 03:12 AM	#12
Synchro909 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 7,496	Re: Model A Ford Longivity Question As I understand it, the VW beetle took the title of most cars produced from the Model T years ago but the Corollas of today are nothing like the utilitarian models of the 60's. The Beetle also changed during its lifetime but less than the Corolla while the T hardly changed. Maybe because of Henry's intransigence? __________________ I'm part of the only ever generation with an analogue childhood and a digital adulthood.

02-08-2017, 03:25 AM	#13
DougVieyra Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Eureka, California Posts: 1,716	Re: Model A Ford Longivity Question Capt Quahog, post 10, makes some salient points. However, none of them touches the topic in question - The initial question in post #1, was what car has "a higher longevity percentage still on the road today". Nothing is asked about quality or any other issue. Just - which car has the highest percentage of manufactured cars still on the road today. My comments about the VW are quite sound. Of all of the marques ever made, which has the highest percentage still on the road today. The air-cooled Volkswagen is at the top of the heap. However I do recognize that the question does leave room for some puzzlement as to what exactly is being asked. "Higher longevity percentage" leaves room for confusion as to what is actually being asked. The word "longevity" does cloud the meaning. "Longevity" makes my think of the Ford Model T (1909). If we are asking what has the highest percentage of survivors still being driven today, I would say VW, as the Model T does have 'longevity' but lacks "higher percentage" of production still being driven today. The "still on the road today" (which I take to mean, cars being driven regularly) , to my mind puts the VW firmly in First Place. The Model T is a special occasion driver, whereas the VW Beetle is an everyday 'driver' - and the car that began production in 1938 (VW) is still being driven daily by the millions. - Synchro, post 12: " the T hardly changed" --------------- Not quite true. Ask a Model T man. The jump from a 1909 Model T and the 1927 Model T is quite huge. None of the body parts are interchangeable, and significant 'evolutionary' improvements continued throughout Model T production. The same thing can be said about the VW. The two cars are alike in many ways, as to their 'fit' into a market niche and time in history. Last edited by DougVieyra; 02-08-2017 at 03:31 AM.

02-08-2017, 07:59 AM	#14
31 Model A Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Here I am in front of Todd's Grocery in 1931 selling Grit newspapers Posts: 2,548	Re: Model A Ford Longivity Question I know about the mass produced post-war VW Beetles and they became to represent a different time in 'world' History, that's why I put the Model A up against other American made cars and trucks: "Early Fords vs Early others of the same year? Example, 1931 Model A Ford vs 1931 Chevrolet or other manufactured 'American made cars'? " I had a VW Beetle myself, bought it off the showroom floor in 1970, fire engine red convertible. It was far better than the Beetles themselves....I hated the Beetles!!!!! I just think it's a wasted opportunity for Ford today to pass up in advertising a product that turn eyes still today. In the 70s, Ford had a bad reputation, FORD, "Found on Road Daily", FORD, "Fix or Repair Daily". Not today..............so FORD!!!!!! For your suggestion box.....Take what you have today, put it up against what you made from 28-31 and go with it...... __________________ __________________ "Bullshit and Brilliance Comes with Age and Experience" "Hey Lady, ya wanna buy a Grit?" "If you don't learn to laugh at trouble, you won't have anything to laugh at when you're old" Will Rogers

02-08-2017, 08:31 AM	#15
frank mcdaniels Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: moorhead minnesota Posts: 166	Re: Model A Ford Longivity Question My father (who is 90 now) and I used to have this conversation when I was younger.Why did the Model A outlast the other cars of the era? He always used the argument that the chevys had more wood and were flimsier. The Model A had lots of wood also I would tell him. But there was just something about the Model A that couldn't be explained. They had more character, They had soul.I remember as a child in the late 50s and early 60s ,I nerver got tired of just looking at photos of Model As. There was just a feeling that overcame me and I never got tired of just looking at them.I never got that feeling from looking at any other brand of car.Somehow Ford just got the perfect balance of practability and design, and people feel in love with the Model A. I think this is why so many lasted to this present day. Anyway that's my theory. Have a good day. Frank-in very cold today Minnesota.

02-08-2017, 09:12 AM	#16
Marshall V. Daut Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Davenport, Iowa Posts: 2,109	Re: Model A Ford Longivity Question Ford DID harken back to its Model A days in the 1970's advertising when it paired the Model A in print ads with - all of things! - the infamous Pinto! Look at magazines from that era that ran new car advertising pages and you'll see side-by-side photos of a Model A Coupe (usually) and a NEW Pinto. Talk about going from the sublime to the ridiculous! The Pinto in these ads hadn't blown up yet upon being tapped from behind. Surviving Chevies might be the second highest survivors among "antique cars", not counting the VW Bug, which I have a hard time accepting as an antique. It's just an old "modern" car to me. Besides, their manufacturing run was longer than the Model T's. The Model T and Model A must be FAR ahead of the Bowtie, however. There was a slew of Chevies made and they were Ford's closest class and price competitor. But as we all know, they didn't make the grade in terms of survivability because of the cheap materials used in their construction until the mid-1930's. Planned obsolescence, ala Alfred Sloan's philosophy. Chevies in the 20's had two undeniable survival killers in the cone clutch that quickly wore out and the soft metal rear axles that constantly broke. Owners carried spare axles under their seats because it was so common for them to break. Unlike Ford, Chevy rear axles could be swapped beside the road fairly easily. Yes, Fisher made bodies with structural wood, but so did Ford. It's funny how you hear old timers talk about how Chevies rotted from the inside and the sheet metal simply fell off or caved in, yet we don't hear such horror stories about Model T's and A's until decades after they had been made. Rotting Chevy body stories popped up even during their prime years! 'Can't explain the difference, but it's clear that even the wooden structural Model A's and T's survived in proportionately greater numbers than their #1 competitor, Chevrolet. As far as WHY FoMoCo and dealers don't actively promote the Model T and A, say you as a consumer have an extra $15,000+ of discretionary money to spend on a car. What would Ford dealers gain by trumpeting up the virtues of a car made 85 to 100 years ago for you to buy instead of spending that same money on one of their hundreds of new cars in stock sitting on the showroom floor and in their lots? There's zero profit in it for them. It's a money thing that gains them nothing. So, of course they will not want to draw attention away from their merchandise by glorifying cars they do not reap any profits from in private sales. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Marshall

02-08-2017, 09:14 AM	#17
SeaSlugs Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Central, IL Posts: 3,968	Re: Model A Ford Longivity Question One of those turning points in history that would be interesting to theorize about is what if the great depression never happened nor WW2 when car production stopped? How many auto makers would we have today if 2/3 of them didnt go bankrupt in 1930's? Would people have kept thier T &A's if they weren't forced to? People clung to what they had because they couldn't afford/get anything newer. Maybe it was the "hey this thing just keeps on running" or its easy to fix yet robust mentality/reality that was forced upon people. Once the depression started picking back up and ww2 ended sure people traded them in or junked them but alot just quietly tucked them away for the "what if it happens again" moment. Alot of people from the depression era hoarded anything that still had some kind of value left in it or could be used to do another job (how many homemade tools/generators/grain elevators etc have we seen made out of model A parts?) . As to modern day fords and their advertising I dont have alot of hope with modern day cars...Whole aluminum truck thing is gonna get interesting in 10 years. __________________ 1929 Model AA - Need long splash aprons!

02-08-2017, 09:38 AM	#18
Marshall V. Daut Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Davenport, Iowa Posts: 2,109	Re: Model A Ford Longivity Question "SeaSlugs" brings up some interesting "what if?" points to ponder and speculate on. A previous poster also mentioned how people became attached to their Model A's and especially their Model T "Tin Lizzies". These cars became almost a member of the family. Who ever heard anyone talk about Chevies like that back then? They were simply transportation, not a family member. The Model A's and T's had a personality somehow lacking in Chevies that endeared them to their owners. Of course their were lovers of Chevies even then - and now! How else would the company have survived? Perhaps the Great Depression and the ration-filled WWII years did force people to hang onto their cars longer than they would have otherwise done in good times, but I would still bet a sizeable proportion of owners would have kept their old Fords more than Chevies. Look how many continue to be found in old barns and forgotten storage places even to this day, loving placed their by their owners, even though the cars may no longer have been in running order! People just couldn't bring themselves to junk their old friend, so they stored them away. One rarely hears about a cache of old Chevies being discovered. Chevies back then were made with the expressed intent of being consumables, while Fords were built for the long haul. A comparison of survival rates between the two marques proves this beyond question. Marshall

02-08-2017, 10:15 AM	#19
Keith True Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Epping N.H. Posts: 2,985	Re: Model A Ford Longivity Question In the 70's I was told by the older garage guys that the A survived because of the fuel mileage.They were only 15 years old or so at the time of war,and they just got the best.I have an A that my family obtained just for that reason.They gave their Chryslers and Plymouths to the scrap drives,and bought the A.At least around here an A was THE car to have during the war.Right after the war scrap had zero value,so there was no point in scrapping them after that.Where I am the wood did play a huge factor,a good wood framed Fordor is a hard thing to find here.

02-08-2017, 10:54 AM	#21
Dick Steinkamp Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 1,163	Re: Model A Ford Longivity Question Dodge did a series of ads a couple of years ago that featured their history. Here are a few... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en0hElJ6PfY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4OpmiT24lw Chevy did a bunch at their 100th anniversary. Here's one... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wK8nHn095I8 __________________ All steel from pedal to wheel Last edited by Dick Steinkamp; 02-08-2017 at 11:38 AM.

02-08-2017, 02:08 PM	#24
31 Model A Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Here I am in front of Todd's Grocery in 1931 selling Grit newspapers Posts: 2,548	Re: Model A Ford Longivity Question BTW!!!! I've read that some Ford dealerships are starting to get in on Model A Day by having a display on their lots, moving today's models off to the side. __________________ "Bullshit and Brilliance Comes with Age and Experience" "Hey Lady, ya wanna buy a Grit?" "If you don't learn to laugh at trouble, you won't have anything to laugh at when you're old" Will Rogers

02-08-2017, 03:25 PM	#26
H. L. Chauvin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,179	Re: Model A Ford Longivity Question Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Hi 31, Many different reasons A's are still among us. Here are just a few I always "heard" about. Model A's from 1929 until 1931 had many simple reasons to be so very popular in their day; for example: 1. The low asking price of A's was important at a depression time when there were massive soup lines, people going to bed with no food, and high unemployment rates. 2. In a short period, with so many A's on the road, non-ford inexpensive parts companies sprung up everywhere, where non-ford inexpensive A parts were affordable for the inexpensive A's. 3. Later, when WWI broke out, and cars were no longer manufactured, "Barn Finds" were a very popular life saver for family transportation, and could be made fully operational with lots of inexpensive non-ford A parts at all parts store. 4. Some citizens were so poor when WWII broke out, later, they bought inexpensive junk cars from junk yards where America witnessed a partial A resurrection. 5. Then, after WWII, with so many Depression Minded conservative citizens, many A's became the middle income family's second car, again easily maintained with non-ford inexpensive parts; and many used A's became poor family's first car. 6. Then total A Restoration using Judging Standards started to become popular. "Barn Finds" were handled differently. Not nearly all of the reasons, but just a few "heard" reasons.

02-08-2017, 03:49 PM	#27
DougVieyra Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Eureka, California Posts: 1,716	Re: Model A Ford Longivity Question The reason that the Ford Model A has outlived its 1920's & '30's competitors is easy to explain. Henry Ford. Unlike all the other car manufacturers, Henry Ford owned the Ford Motor Company all by himself (well, he did spin off a small amount of stock to his wife and son). As such he could build an 'automobile for the masses'. Beside Henry Ford being a billionaire capitalist, he was first and foremost a socialist. He believed in the dignity of man and built a car for the common man. As such he was counter to the mainline philosophy of the day - $ $ $ - making money was the bottom line for all the other manufacturers. For Henry Ford, it was making the very best car at the lowest possible cost. He wanted a car of the highest quality, that could be maintained by the owner himself. As such, every part of the 5,000 or so parts that made up the Ford Model A, was thoroughly 'vetted' for maximum value and longevity of life. One example of Henry's zealot-like fanaticism in building long-lived quality and ease of maintenance was the designing and manufacturing of the Zenith Carburetor. Anyone who has read about Henry's devotion to just this one component will quickly see why the Ford Model A has survived in such numbers and to such lasting 'drivability', that we see today. When you own the manufacturing facility - lock, stock and barrel - entirely by yourself alone, you can (as Frank Sinatra would say) do it your way. Henry had no Board of Directors to account to. Henry had no Stock Holders to account to. Henry had only his own conscience and belief in his 'car for the masses'. He built the Model A for the people, not for the stock holders.

02-08-2017, 07:00 PM	#28
Dale G. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 292	Re: Model A Ford Longivity Question I researched this subject in the past about comparing chevys' to Model A's during production. Chevrolets out sold Model A's in 30,31, and 32. My father was a Chevrolet man during this period and liked them, only because the closest Ford dealer was sixty miles away from where he lived but the Chevrolet dealer was in his town. Anyway, I found that the wood in the bodies of Chevrolets was pine vs. oak and ash from Iron Mountain. Pine rots fast in the elements. So in my estimation, that is the reason there are a lot less Chevrolets around.

02-08-2017, 08:59 PM	#29
Peyton Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Jacksonville Fl Posts: 142	Re: Model A Ford Longivity Question My records indicate that Ford outsold Chevy in 1930!

02-08-2017, 09:57 PM	#30
Dick Steinkamp Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 1,163	Re: Model A Ford Longivity Question "The Great Depression began, but Ford sold 4.5 million thrifty Model A's before production ceased in 1931. While other businesses disintegrated and failed, Ford was still selling a lot of cars. Ford outsold Chevy in 1929 and 1930, although Chevy was back on top from 1931 through 1933." https://axleaddict.com/auto-industry...ury-of-Rivalry "Then came eight ping-pong years. The lead flipped back and forth -- Chevy in 1928, Ford in 1929 and 1930, Chevy again in 1931-34 and Ford in 1935." http://www.autonews.com/article/2011...-for-a-century __________________ All steel from pedal to wheel

02-12-2017, 06:06 PM	#34
mhsprecher Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Takoma Park, MD Posts: 2,817	Re: Model A Ford Longivity Question There are a couple of letters and articles in the most recent issue of the Lincoln Zephyr Club mag about Porsche seeing the John Tjaarda/Briggs LZ prototype with a rear engine at the Briggs studios. This information came from Tjaarda's daughter plus some information from his son from an article written in 2002. No direct attribution, but a lot of circumstantial evidence that the prototype LZ influenced the Beetle.

02-12-2017, 06:15 PM	#35
René W Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Amsterdam Netherlands Posts: 179	Re: Model A Ford Longivity Question Are there pictures of the LZ prototype? __________________ It is a pile of shit bit it's my pile of shit

02-12-2017, 06:21 PM	#36
denis4x4 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Durango CO Posts: 1,309	Re: Model A Ford Longivity Question I used to buy all of my Fords at Drew Motors in La Mesa and always enjoyed looking at the photo of Henry Ford presenting Joe Drew the franchise papers. Usually an A and T truck in the show room. Now part of the Penske Group. Posted a photo of Drew's A here several years ago and there were a dozen or more posts pointing out all of the things wrong with it! The "round house of values" building was a clone of the Ford rotunda in Detroit. As an ad guy in the automotive aftermarket industry for 40 years, I wouldn't waste the money or space in a current Ford print or tv ad to include an A! Memories and nostalgia don't sell like some here might think. __________________ No restorable Model A's were harmed in the building of this truck!