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07-29-2020, 09:31 PM | #1 |
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Ratchet style starter drive retract
I got a new starter drive unit for my Mercury with the Merc-o-matic and I twisted it out not knowing it that I wasn't supposed to do that. Do you guys know a way to retract it? I saw a video using a wire wheel on a bench grinder to spin it up and rewind it, but I don't have a wire wheel for mine. Can I spin it with the starter out side of the car and force a retract?
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07-29-2020, 10:43 PM | #2 |
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Re: Ratchet style starter drive retract
the speed of the running engine is what retracts the drive so I assume with no load on the starter it should retract by jumping it with a battery, my guess! either it will or won't!
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07-30-2020, 05:49 AM | #3 |
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Re: Ratchet style starter drive retract
you can take it apart and reset the 3 spring loaded little dowels back into the slot of the
worm not easy but doable with extra set of hands. Lesson learned, don't fool with this style .... |
07-30-2020, 09:04 AM | #4 |
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Re: Ratchet style starter drive retract
big job:
Lesson learned, don't fool with this style .... QUESTION: What style do you recommend? The starter for the Merco-Matic is different than for the manual trans. Not interchangeable. |
07-30-2020, 09:07 AM | #5 |
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Re: Ratchet style starter drive retract
WABOOM: Try your idea outside the car and see what happens. I don't think it will hurt the starter. Fordor41 also has a good idea.
Here's a helpful thread. https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...-matic.622529/ and https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48011 If possible, PM folks with Mercomatic starter like yours, get their phone number and call them to discuss how they have installed this starter. IDEA: Clamp the starter in a BIG vise using the case as clamping point. Put on a leather glove and simultaneously twist and push in the starter drive (CW or CCW) to see if you can manually retract it. Last edited by 19Fordy; 07-30-2020 at 09:21 AM. |
07-30-2020, 09:44 AM | #6 |
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Re: Ratchet style starter drive retract
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07-30-2020, 10:05 AM | #7 | |
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Re: Ratchet style starter drive retract
Quote:
called a "flow thru" something like that back when. Before buying another nothing to loose - take it apart in a cardboard box so nothing flys away like springs do. Remove large snap ring on the barrel remove the barrel now you will see something like a star this is where those little springs and dowels go into. On the inside of this so called starr is where a spring then a dowel goes I think there are three springs & dowels. Somehow you gotta hold all dowels in while turning the whole assy. on the worm shaft. What happened is that it was turned 'wrong way' past the worm shaft and all the dowels popped out. Not complicated it works by centrifugal force. when engine starts remember ring gear is large and the bendex is small so that bendex is really whipping thus sucking those dowels "in" back in their little holes. Same principal as a governor. Hope I explained this understandable. then reassemble good to go....sam |
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07-30-2020, 12:05 PM | #8 |
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Re: Ratchet style starter drive retract
big job, Thank you for that excellent explanation. I am sure WABOOM can solve the problem as this can't be the first time this has ever happened.
Wish I had a starter like that to play with. Would be an interesting challenge. Kind of like assembling a mechanical part where you have to hold all the little balls in place with thick grease or a home made strap like a wire tie or radiator hose. |
07-30-2020, 02:20 PM | #9 |
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Re: Ratchet style starter drive retract
WABOOM, if it were mine and before I took it apart, I'd try the battery hook up trick. Failing that, I'd get a wire wheel for the grinder.....and you probably need one anyway!!!
I have a VERY bad record of success with taking things like this apart and then getting them back together without having a very frustrating afternoon!! |
07-30-2020, 10:23 PM | #10 |
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Re: Ratchet style starter drive retract
I took the starter out. Here's a good pic of a Merc-o-matic starter.
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07-30-2020, 10:30 PM | #11 |
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Re: Ratchet style starter drive retract
I tested installed the new drive unit onto the starter shaft and spun it up to full speed with jumper cables. I tried several times to nudge the starter gear into retract mode with a lever while spinnin, but I could not get it to retract.
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07-31-2020, 01:07 AM | #12 | |
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Re: Ratchet style starter drive retract
Quote:
I believe the term was "Follow Through". They were designed to avoid disengaging whenever the engine would fire once or twice but not catch and stay running. It used to be common to hear a Ford starter turn the engine briefly, then buzz up without turning the engine. So you had to release the starter button and wait for the starter to stop turning, then push the button again-sometimes repeatedly! This new style drive shown here was a vast improvement! If the engine just fired once or twice, the ratchet allowed the drive to over run, but stay engaged until the engine fired and revved fast enough to release those pins and thus disengage. |
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07-31-2020, 02:58 AM | #13 | |
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Re: Ratchet style starter drive retract
Quote:
If it will mount and can be bolted in place (with the gear teeth engaged), as soon as the engine starts, centrifugal force will be sufficient enough to allow normal operation.
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07-31-2020, 05:37 AM | #14 |
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Re: Ratchet style starter drive retract
I will try to install it tonight.
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07-31-2020, 09:41 AM | #15 |
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Re: Ratchet style starter drive retract
I'm gonna spin it with a 12 volt battery tonight and see if I can bump it back in with more rpms.
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07-31-2020, 10:02 AM | #16 |
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Re: Ratchet style starter drive retract
I don't think spinning the starter will retract it as that's what engages it. You
need to spin the drive like the engine would when it starts. Last edited by Bob C; 07-31-2020 at 01:31 PM. |
07-31-2020, 10:12 AM | #17 |
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Re: Ratchet style starter drive retract
Is there a pictorial drawing of that starter available that will show how it mechanically fits together?
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07-31-2020, 10:33 AM | #18 |
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Re: Ratchet style starter drive retract
Just a thought, should using a 12 volt battery not spin it fasi enough, using another 12 volt battery, hook it up for 24 volts to make it spin faster.
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07-31-2020, 11:03 AM | #19 |
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Re: Ratchet style starter drive retract
When the starter drive engages flywheel and spins, does the inertia and much faster rotation of the flywheel, upon starting, cause the starter gear to withdraw it's contact with the flywheel after the engine starts?
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07-31-2020, 11:48 AM | #20 |
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Re: Ratchet style starter drive retract
As I see it... the teeth of the ratchets twist the gear head up the helix, and then ratchets keep the gear engaged until the engine starts. Then the flywheel spins it so fast the drive unit unlocks and rewind down the helix.
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07-31-2020, 12:00 PM | #21 |
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Re: Ratchet style starter drive retract
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07-31-2020, 12:06 PM | #22 |
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Re: Ratchet style starter drive retract
There are two or three (depends on manufacturer) spring loaded pins that engage with an annular groove. This is what keeps the gear forward until the engine starts and spins the starter gear fast enough to centrifugally force the pins out of the groove to allow the gear to move reward.
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07-31-2020, 12:17 PM | #23 | |
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Re: Ratchet style starter drive retract
Quote:
If you feel uncomfortable doing it, by all means don't . Would be best to see if it will install as is.
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07-31-2020, 01:38 PM | #24 |
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Re: Ratchet style starter drive retract
This video shows how to get them to retract with the wire wheel on a bench grinder.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTmxlDXL8hc |
07-31-2020, 03:05 PM | #25 |
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Re: Ratchet style starter drive retract
Bob C: Thank you very much for posting that video. Amazing how simple that really is.
Here's another interesting ratchet drive starter video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn7d-KZsIxs |
07-31-2020, 05:49 PM | #26 |
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Re: Ratchet style starter drive retract
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08-01-2020, 05:00 AM | #27 |
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Re: Ratchet style starter drive retract
Glad you got it fixed!! I certainly learned a lot along the way about these types of starters! Those were very interesting videos that were posted above.
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08-01-2020, 10:38 AM | #28 |
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Re: Ratchet style starter drive retract
Goody gum drop. It's nice to win one. Well done WABOOM. You should take photos of the install for benefit of others. JIM
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08-05-2020, 09:50 PM | #29 |
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Re: Ratchet style starter drive retract
Update: these starters CAN be installed with the drive unit extended in the starting position.
I disassembled the starter and cleaned up everything with electrical cleaner and resurfaced the commutator a bit. Reassembled it, painted the case and while handling it... I wound the drive unit up the helix... this time I said "F' it I wanna know if it'll go in like this". It went in easy as pie. Started right up and I heard it release and unwind. I started it 4-5 more times just for kicks. I can definitely hear a difference with this style bendix. It's noisier, sounds more mechanical. Last edited by WABOOM; 08-05-2020 at 09:57 PM. |
08-07-2020, 03:36 PM | #30 |
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Re: Ratchet style starter drive retract
There is a way to do this by hand, using a very sharp pencil.
The trick is to put the tip of the pencil into the end of the spiral, in three places- sharpen the pencil for each one. Break off the tip of pencil. I haven't done this in years, would have to go get a drive from my parts to make this more clear. Let me know if you're interested. Karl |
08-07-2020, 05:14 PM | #31 |
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Re: Ratchet style starter drive retract
Karl, If possible, post your pencil procedure with photos. Tell us what happens to the pencils.
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08-07-2020, 06:03 PM | #32 |
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Re: Ratchet style starter drive retract
Very interested.
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