Float-A-Motor mounts

[stillwater]

I am putting a B engine/B trans in my 30 pickup. I have heard that the mount I need to use is a Float-A-Motor mount. However I have heard some concerns from a few folks that the Float-A-Motor mount is not believed to be a safe way to mount the drive train in my truck.

Does anyone have some advice for me, one way or the other on this subject?

If this is not a safe way to mount it all up, any ideas on what is?

[denis4x4]

F-A-M are the best things since sliced bread.

No, they will cause frame sag and your crank handle won't line up

There, I've condensed the F-A-M discussion into a single post!!!!

[Mike V. Florida]

Denis hit it on the head.

[Jim Brierley]

F-A-M also eliminate some of the rigidity of the A frame.

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by Jim Brierley

F-A-M also eliminate some of the rigidity of the A frame.

Soooooooo, is that a good thing? or not?

[Mitch//pa]

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Originally Posted by carlg

soooooooo, is that a good thing? Or not?

bad

[Bruce]

We've had FAM on our Roadster Pickup for 17,000 miles. Our Roadster has been more than 20,000 miles with FAM. The Station Wagon just hit the road in May with Model A original style engine mounts. It now has 2,600 miles.
I have to admit that I can tell no difference in the performance ... or rigidity ... of any of those 40,000 miles.
It is easier to install an engine with FAM's.

[Mitch//pa]

i notice a difference in frame flex when lifting an A on a two post that has FAM vs original

[2manycars]

I have had floaters on my tudor for many years, and have had no adverse effects. If the frame flexes, I dont notice nor do I care. The car has not fallen apart in that time.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by 2manycars

I have had floaters on my tudor for many years, and have had no adverse effects. If the frame flexes, I dont notice nor do I care. The car has not fallen apart in that time.

HEY....are you saying to ignore the 'evidence' !
NEWS FLASH:
1930 from Henry Ford....the Model A frame is the most flexible on the road....ever !!!

If you really want IT to be inflexible , weld in the V8 donut type motor mounts at the bell housing !

As far as reading the FAM are 'BAD'....an old saying comes to mind, i.e.- don't believe anything you read, some of what you see and none of what you read...or some such. You get the idea, use facts and your computer (between your ears).

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

HEY....are you saying to ignore the 'evidence' !
NEWS FLASH:
1930 from Henry Ford....the Model A frame is the most flexible on the road....ever !!!

If you really want IT to be inflexible , weld in the V8 donut type motor mounts at the bell housing !

As far as reading the FAM are 'BAD'....an old saying comes to mind, i.e.- don't believe anything you read, some of what you see and none of what you read...or some such. You get the idea, use facts and your computer (between your ears).

Haha, good one Hardtimes.

How about this one;

"Don't believe everthing you hear. There are always three sides to a story, Yours, Theirs and the TRUTH..."

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

HEY....are you saying to ignore the 'evidence' !
NEWS FLASH:
1930 from Henry Ford....the Model A frame is the most flexible on the road....ever !!!

If you really want IT to be inflexible , weld in the V8 donut type motor mounts at the bell housing !

As far as reading the FAM are 'BAD'....an old saying comes to mind, i.e.- don't believe anything you read, some of what you see and none of what you read...or some such. You get the idea, use facts and your computer (between your ears).

Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead

Haha, good one Hardtimes.

How about this one;

"Don't believe everthing you hear. There are always three sides to a story, Yours, Theirs and the TRUTH..."

right on fellows

[stillwater]

Okay, got it.

[jfreddie]

I have two A's, one with FAM, one orig.

Both ride the same.

The one with FAM I can watch the shifter/brake levers move slightly while the car is moving over bumpy road and feel no vibration.

The other original car shifter/brake levers don't move at all anytime, and I can feel vibration at some speeds.

I'd say the difference is the FAM.

[duke36]

Years ago, the FAM "instructions" called for allowing the rubber biscuits to be slightly moved by hand, i.e.,not over compressed. I've never figured out the correct thru- bolt/nut tightness. Any thoughts on this?

[Henry1953]

My FAM allowed the motor to shift far enough forward to prevent the removal of the front oil pan screws. I had to go back to the original. I don't feel any difference in the ride. I would not use a FAM if I were you.

[Indiana A. Lover]

I just installed my 31 A motor and trans this afternoon, had to drill 2 holes in front cross member. That is the hardest part of swap. Have not driven car so can not pass judgement yet. Can not wait. Don in Indiana.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by Indiana A. Lover

I just installed my 31 A motor and trans this afternoon, had to drill 2 holes in front cross member. That is the hardest part of swap. Have not driven car so can not pass judgement yet. Can not wait. Don in Indiana.

Don,
Remember to enlarge the holes in the crossmember, so the bolt doesn't transmit vibrations from the engine. I used a "UNI-BIT", from below. If someone criticizes you, tellim' to stick it in their LEFT EAR!-- P.M. me if you have any other questions.
Bill W.

[VFRhugh]

I had to pull my engine for a little main brearing work. I put it back in today. I don't know about anything structural or vibration but I'm working by myself and the motor mounts were a non-issue.
Hugh

[Tom Wesenberg]

If the engine can move forward or rearward a little, then the rear axle moves by the same amount. If the rear axle moves, then the rear brakes will also be affected by the movement, if you are stepping on the brake pedal.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

If the engine can move forward or rearward a little, then the rear axle moves by the same amount. If the rear axle moves, then the rear brakes will also be affected by the movement, if you are stepping on the brake pedal.

Tom,
TRUST ME, the motor & power train DOES NOT move back & forth with Float-A-Motors. They only suppress the engine noises from getting into the frame/body. The name of them is mis-leading, they should have been called, "QUIET-A-MOTOR" Old tales abound & KEEP on being REPEATED! Some may confuse them with early Chrysler mounting systems, called, "FLOATING POWER." I've heard NIEVE persons that even think your fan could go into the radiator during a sudden stop----------------HOGWASH!!
Front & rear FAMS were the GREATEST thing I ever did to Minerva, I'd put them on Vermin, except, I'M TOO TIRED! At 60-65, Minerva just went HMMMMMN, so smooth & quiet, you wouldn't believe it. With stock mounting, she sounded like you were TEARING up the engine, after 45MPH! You're familiar with those sounds & that's why many don't drive over that speed.
Bill W.

[RandyinUtah]

I agree with Bill Williamson. The first post was a question on the safety of FM and Bill answered the question. I have used FM for 30 thousand miles with no problems and it sure make installing the engine easier than with original mounts. Why do you think they sell after market frame spreaders for help in engine replacement with original type mounts.

[Mitch//pa]

never had to use a frame spreader on OSM's

[Miles in MN]

To the OP:

What no one is telling you is that in order to install the B transmission with the B engine you must use a Model B flywheel housing. There is no provision on the B flywheel housing for attachment to Model A rear motor mounts, so the stock rear engine mounting is out of the question for that combination. The Model B flywheel housings were made in two configurations; one with a demountable ear on each side for connecting the steady rods used to control fore and aft movement on the later model Fords with the "improved" four cylinder and V8's. That flywheel housing is used to install the B engine and transmission in a Model A frame using a special version of the Float-a-Motor mounts. The FAM's for installing a B in an A are not the same as the ones used for the Model A engine installation. Your only choice will be the special FAM's or a home-made mount if you have the ability to fabricate it using the B flywheel housing. I made a set using large steel angle and V8 motor mount biscuits; it can be done!

[CYB4]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

Tom,
TRUST ME, the motor & power train DOES NOT move back & forth with Float-A-Motors. They only suppress the engine noises from getting into the frame/body. The name of them is mis-leading, they should have been called, "QUIET-A-MOTOR" Old tales abound & KEEP on being REPEATED! Some may confuse them with early Chrysler mounting systems, called, "FLOATING POWER." I've heard NIEVE persons that even think your fan could go into the radiator during a sudden stop----------------HOGWASH!!
Front & rear FAMS were the GREATEST thing I ever did to Minerva, I'd put them on Vermin, except, I'M TOO TIRED! At 60-65, Minerva just went HMMMMMN, so smooth & quiet, you wouldn't believe it. With stock mounting, she sounded like you were TEARING up the engine, after 45MPH! You're familiar with those sounds & that's why many don't drive over that speed.
Bill W.

Thanks Bill, so I will put some FAM in my Tudor also, looking forward to a much smoother ride

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

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Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

TRUST ME, the motor & power train DOES NOT move back & forth with Float-A-Motors.

Old tales abound & KEEP on being REPEATED!

To be 'politically correct', I am just going to say that based on my experiences with Float-a-Motor mounts, by design they DO allow the engine & transmission assembly to move back & forth. In addition, it has been my experience that this movement DOES affect the braking efficiency of a stock braking system. If anyone chooses to disagree, that is OK too. As they say, experience is generally something you get after you need it. I just know what I have experienced on multiple occasions!

[1929]

Always confusing, It seems all conversations are 50/50, I guess there will never be a 100% agreement on the mechanics of the Model A.

[mshmodela]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

Tom,
TRUST ME, the motor & power train DOES NOT move back & forth with Float-A-Motors. They only suppress the engine noises from getting into the frame/body. The name of them is mis-leading, they should have been called, "QUIET-A-MOTOR" Old tales abound & KEEP on being REPEATED! Some may confuse them with early Chrysler mounting systems, called, "FLOATING POWER." I've heard NIEVE persons that even think your fan could go into the radiator during a sudden stop----------------HOGWASH!!
Front & rear FAMS were the GREATEST thing I ever did to Minerva, I'd put them on Vermin, except, I'M TOO TIRED! At 60-65, Minerva just went HMMMMMN, so smooth & quiet, you wouldn't believe it. With stock mounting, she sounded like you were TEARING up the engine, after 45MPH! You're familiar with those sounds & that's why many don't drive over that speed.
Bill W.

Bill, thank you for the above details; I now know more about my car with your sharing of years of experience.. Ms Daisy really does not dig 45mph or more and I now likely have the reason why.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by mshmodela

Bill, thank you for the above details; I now know more about my car with your sharing of years of experience.. Ms Daisy really does not dig 45mph or more and I now likely have the reason why.

"............

[stillwater]

Quote:
To the OP:

What no one is telling you is that in order to install the B transmission with the B engine you must use a Model B flywheel housing. There is no provision on the B flywheel housing for attachment to Model A rear motor mounts, so the stock rear engine mounting is out of the question for that combination. The Model B flywheel housings were made in two configurations; one with a demountable ear on each side for connecting the steady rods used to control fore and aft movement on the later model Fords with the "improved" four cylinder and V8's. That flywheel housing is used to install the B engine and transmission in a Model A frame using a special version of the Float-a-Motor mounts. The FAM's for installing a B in an A are not the same as the ones used for the Model A engine installation. Your only choice will be the special FAM's or a home-made mount if you have the ability to fabricate it using the B flywheel housing. I made a set using large steel angle and V8 motor mount biscuits; it can be done!



I do have the B flywheel housing, oil pan, etc. I have everything I need. I already decided to adapt some kind of modern motor mounts and do it myself, as this is certainly not out of my skillset. I'm 50yo, have worked as a bodyman, as a production welder among other things. So I am just going to make my own mounts.

Quite interesting responses here for sure. Lol

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

With FRONT FAM's, be SURE to enlarge the crossmember holes, from below, with a UNI-BIT, otherwise, the engine vibrations will transmit from the mounting bar to the crossmember, through the bolt & it would vibrate WORSE than stock! The sellers should mention this, in their installation instructions.
I had to install 2 heavy flat washers under the engine bar, to align the crank bearing, to the crank nut. The Dog calls me a "CRANK NUT"---Whut duz he mean??????--I'm nice to him??
Bill W.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by 1929

Always confusing, It seems all conversations are 50/50, I guess there will never be a 100% agreement on the mechanics of the Model A.

1929,
TOO MANY bored old Dudes, with nothing else to do, except RATTLE about stuff & see their NAME in PRINT! Why are so many folks INSECURE?--YES, I'm insecure, also & slightly paranoid, at times. Am I NORMAL? At least, I can make a Model A run & operate properly & right now, I'm baking Cranberry Yeast Bread. Next, I have to wash my BOTTLES
Bill W.

[old victoria]

the drive train will move a little with the F.A.M that's ok. but they do sag allowing your motor to drop in the rear (crank hole will not line up) also never use with t5 open driveshaft or any other open drive shaft conversions.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by old victoria

the drive train will move a little with the F.A.M that's ok. but they do sag allowing your motor to drop in the rear (crank hole will not line up) also never use with t5 open driveshaft or any other open drive shaft conversions.

There are MILLIONS of cars out there, running RUBBER mounts & OPEN drive shafts, of all sorts---------------- SORRY !
Bill W.

[denis4x4]

Originally Posted by old victoria

the drive train will move a little with the F.A.M that's ok. but they do sag allowing your motor to drop in the rear (crank hole will not line up) also never use with t5 open driveshaft or any other open drive shaft conversions.

The extended cab 29 CCPU in my avatar has FAM's, open drive shaft and a T-5! Never had any issues in almost 10 years. Also has a B engine, original CRAGAR head and F-100 steering. The frame is straight and there's zero sag. Absolutely great touring car. There's even enough room in the bobbed flatbed to carry four cases of beer!

[stillwater]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

1929,
TOO MANY bored old Dudes, with nothing else to do, except RATTLE about stuff & see their NAME in PRINT! Why are so many folks INSECURE?--YES, I'm insecure, also & slightly paranoid, at times. Am I NORMAL? At least, I can make a Model A run & operate properly & right now, I'm baking Cranberry Yeast Bread. Next, I have to wash my BOTTLES
Bill W.

I understand. I haven't been here much so I will get that...
btw, I used to subscribe to F.A.S.T. and Secrets, so I understand lol.

[PepeLoco]

I have noticed since installing FAM that I have become Lactose Intolerant.

[Indiana A. Lover]

Thank you for the tip on enlarging the 2 holes in the front crossmember. I preformed this very delicate operation this morning, assisting was my able body wife and boxer Sara. Boat tail Speedster is coming along nice. I want to go to T R O G in the worst way! Thanks again Bill. Don

[Indiana A. Lover]

I really enjoy this Ford Barn At least here we can be funny and learn some thing. And thats all I got to say about that! Don

[Mitch//pa]

i'm lucky to have Bill as my POP.. when he see's something works he tries to pass that on to others with a joke included...
i caught him last night trying to install FAM's on both my cars..

[Mitch//pa]

I have seen FAM's used with the stock front mount... The front mount does more of a balancing act then support of the motor...I bet many didn't want to drill out the frt crossmember and make a permanent disfigurement..

[Lee Mitch]

Pepeloco, that was hilarious! Thanks for making me laugh out loud!

[RandyinUtah]

I have been running FM with the stock front mount for years with no problems. I didn't know of any other way.

[30Tudor]

Just make sure you properly install the rear transmission mount. I think this is key to stopping the engine movement issues Brent refers to above.

[racer32]

Originally Posted by 30Tudor

Just make sure you properly install the rear transmission mount. I think this is key to stopping the engine movement issues Brent refers to above.

I think my car may be missing this part. It has FAM mount at bellhousing and stock front mount.

[CarlG]

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Offer a compromise: Floats in front, Stock in the rear. Should satisfy everybody

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by RandyinUtah

I have been running FM with the stock front mount for years with no problems. I didn't know of any other way.

Originally Posted by racer32

I think my car may be missing this part. It has FAM mount at bellhousing and stock front mount.

I'm a bit confused (doesn't take much sometimes). My car had the 'rear FOM kit' when I bought it with the front stock mount.

Does the front FOM come as a separate kit or does it all come as one kit (Front and Rear)? I'm not planning on changing anything, just curious because so many have mentioned they only have the rear.

Oops sorry, should be FAM not FOM. A Ford O Matic is a ford Automajic trans from the 50's, usually hung on the back of a Y-Block...

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead

I'm a bit confused (doesn't take much sometimes). My car had the 'rear FOM kit' when I bought it with the front stock mount.

Does the front FOM come as a separate kit or does it all come as one kit (Front and Rear)? I'm not planning on changing anything, just curious because so many have mentioned they only have the rear.

The FAM 'kit' that I've familiar with and have installed, consists of the TWO rear engine mounts to replace the TWO stock rear mounts. There is no front such FAM, that I'm aware of and so I successfully for many years, have used the stock Ford A/B front mount with the rear mentioned mounts.

Now, what a lot of A/B owners, who use rear engine FAM mounts....are not aware of, is that you should / must install the mount (FAM ?) that goes under cross member and attaches to the rear of transmission/u joint cover (top two bolts,etc). There is a RUBBER snubber/bumper that keeps the engine more in alignment when using FAM system. Otherwise, engine WILL move /shift more than it should under torque.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Hardtimes,
There IS an available FRONT FAM set up. It's much like the '32 Model B.
Bill W.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

Hardtimes,
There IS an available FRONT FAM set up. It's much like the '32 Model B.
Bill W.

but you have to drill holes....and is it still a balancing act as if your using the stock rear mounts? or does the FAM create so much flex that the motor needs to rest on the ffront

[CarlG]

Front Mount:

[J Witt]

Can someone describe/picture this snubber and mount that goes on the crossmember at the u-joint?

I just put new rubber in the FAM on my car, but didn't see any way to use the rubber block that came in the kit.

The car has an original front mount with new springs and the FAM rear mount. This combo drives very nicely and is as quiet as one might expect an A to be.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

With the rubber insulation that FAM's provide, your Model A won't vibrate like a THRESHING MACHINE !
IF you're running stock mounts, for an extra "THRILL", wear TIGHT SHORTS!
Bill W.

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

Tom,
TRUST ME, the motor & power train DOES NOT move back & forth with Float-A-Motors. They only suppress the engine noises from getting into the frame/body. The name of them is mis-leading, they should have been called, "QUIET-A-MOTOR" Old tales abound & KEEP on being REPEATED! Some may confuse them with early Chrysler mounting systems, called, "FLOATING POWER." I've heard NIEVE persons that even think your fan could go into the radiator during a sudden stop----------------HOGWASH!!
Front & rear FAMS were the GREATEST thing I ever did to Minerva, I'd put them on Vermin, except, I'M TOO TIRED! At 60-65, Minerva just went HMMMMMN, so smooth & quiet, you wouldn't believe it. With stock mounting, she sounded like you were TEARING up the engine, after 45MPH! You're familiar with those sounds & that's why many don't drive over that speed.
Bill W.

Bill, with the F-A M's that we used here, found everything as you said.

If I had an A now, it would F-A-M's in.

But there is adjustment that has to be done.

I would say if you have a drive train moving, something needs to be fixed.

If one does that, they all should. It could just be the ones sold to some people.

Herm.

[PC/SR]

I have and like the FAM, but found like Henry1953, they did allow forward movement a little after some hard acceleration on hillclimbs and blocked access to the front pan bolts under the front cross member. I fabricated some "traction bars" for the speedster to secure the rear axle (and the rest of the drive train) in place and no more problem. FAM was not a problem with stock engine and "normal" A driving.
However, with the B trans you should fabricate some mounts for the rear of the trans to the center cross member for support. This can be done and use rubber donuts from the FAM replacement kits sold by the usual suppliers. (I did this for the '39 trans on the speedster, the 32 trans has a different rear retainer but the issue is the same.) But Hardtimes, Jim Brierely and others know much more about B mounting than I do.
For the front, I used CarlG's mount, comment #51, but cut it in two in the center and trimmed it for two separate mounts.

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

I have B engine and trans in my 31 A coupe, used the B front mount that spreads out, drill the cross member and used rubber donuts, used the aluminum FM mount that bolts to the frame for the bell housing with the big donuts but had the make the bracket that bolts to the bell housing that sets on the donuts because the housing bolt holes set back about 3/4in. out of 1/4in. stock. Used 41-48 trans gears in B trans, 3:54 rear gears, 40 Ford brakes, Put many miles on in the last 14years. Of course it don't drive like an A, shifts smooth and stops smooth and goes fast. Walt

[Timsalways]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

With FRONT FAM's, be SURE to enlarge the crossmember holes, from below, with a UNI-BIT, otherwise, the engine vibrations will transmit from the mounting bar to the crossmember, through the bolt & it would vibrate WORSE than stock! The sellers should mention this, in their installation instructions.
I had to install 2 heavy flat washers under the engine bar, to align the crank bearing, to the crank nut. The Dog calls me a "CRANK NUT"---Whut duz he mean??????--I'm nice to him??
Bill W.

Thanks Bill, my old ride needs some of these. The great deal I got on my A reassures me that anything I do now can only do good. Until the crank falls out from the side or the rear end locks up, I will be driving it like a bucket of bolts, but not on the interstate! There are few Roads between you and I but I will drive this A across the USA one day. Just got to get rid of that vibration. I was thinking of disconnecting my 4 blade fan, I wonder how many vibrations come from there?

[duke36]

So is there any way to gauge how tight the FAM doughnuts should be? I can feel the engine vibrate or pulse within the mount. Should the mount just be tight enough to stop the "pulsing" and still not compress the new rubber doughnuts? Also, the bolts that come with the mounts are smaller diameter than the doughnut holes. Would it make sense to upsize the bolts to fit the holes snugly to give a firmer fit and minimize engine fore & aft movement?

[Ted Duke]

Okay, I am totally confused. I am going to invite Bill Williamson and his son Mitch to my shop for a work session, LOT's of beer and maybe some pretzels and get them to an agreement on this issue.

Ted

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

IF you want your car SMOOTH & QUIET, install front & rear FAMs & a flexible exhaust hanger.
IF you don't CARE, DON'T READ ALL THIS STUFF!
Bill Quiet