The Ford Barn

Tiny · 09-10-2013, 11:34 AM

This summer I purchased a huge pile of rusty metal that was the part of an A estate that no one else wanted. I sold, scrapped, and found new homes for a lot of it. I have kept a few treasures for my self. One of these treasures is an F3 "B" head. I havent examined it real close for cracks and such,just put it on the shelf for "Someday".

Today I did a little research and didn't find much. What I did find is that it is assumed to be a later Ford replacement head that has a heavier casting than the "C" head. Someone had said it gave their AA more pep, in an old post on here.

So can we beat this dead horse a little more? What is the F3 head? Does anyone know its compression ratio? Will it give more "pep"? Anyone running one? Some feedback would be greatly appreciated.
As always
Thanks for your input

Purdy Swoft · 09-10-2013, 12:40 PM

It has the more efficient heart shaped combustion chamber. Go to http--dynosheets.htmmodelaparts.net This is the Piranio's dyno tests. scroll don to stock model A with C head. The F3 head has been claimed to only be 4.6 compression ratio, if this is true the F3 head is the same as the C head. The test shows 46.77 horsepower at 2200 RPM . this is nearly seven horse power, add an .080 overbore and it will be seven or more horsepower. add a B cam, carb and manifold and it should put out as much horsepower as a stock B at 50 hp. I could feel a good difference with this setup on uncle Albert, a double A that I had. I've still got the engine sitting in the back corner of my shop

Tiny · 09-10-2013, 12:53 PM

Thanks Purdy
Thats the info I was searching for.
Almost 7hp look out!!

Is there a source for B water pumps?

Purdy Swoft · 09-10-2013, 01:13 PM

Try Berts 800-321-1931 . They've probably got them in used or rebuilt cond. The model B pumps are just as easy to rebuild as the model A pumps. They both use the same parts, the only difference is the length of the model A pump shaft. I shorten the model A pump shaft and use it. There are two different length B style pump housings. The 1932 style lines up with the model A pulleys. The 33-34 pumps are a little shorter so as to allow for the laid back radiator and grill on the later models. The longer length 32 shaft will work in the 33-34 style pumps and won't be noticed with the fan in place. Its just a matter of shortening the model A water pump shaft to the length of the 32 B length. You use the B impeller

Tiny · 09-10-2013, 01:26 PM

Good idea. I never would have thought of Berts for 32 parts but i guess B parts would still be inline (HAHA I made a funny)with their business. Before I buy a pump I should probably give the head a close inspection and a derusting.

Purdy Swoft · 09-10-2013, 02:19 PM

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I would also check for cracks. Most heads need a little trueing up after removal. I use to have them milled a little for this reason and to leave a good surface for the gasket to seal. I used a copper clad B gasket with mine, I can't remember the parts number. I have found leaving only .030 height in the counter bore gives an improvement to most heads. I didn't do this to mine but will if I ever need to remove it again. Some shave the counterbore completely away. I don't recommend this with a C head because they are so thin. The F3 heads do have a thicker better casting than the C heads.

Tiny · 09-10-2013, 02:24 PM

Purdy
What do you think of using the V8 water pumps? Is there a way to mount a fan?

ursus · 09-10-2013, 02:49 PM

At one time I had three of the F3 heads that had been removed from Model-B engines that were used in industrial applications. The engines were all late 1930's Diamond blocks that magnafluxed out with so many cracks that I scrapped them. The F3 heads were all sound, well made, and crack free. The compression chambers looked exactly like that of the C heads and when I CC'd each of them they were identical to the 4.6 to 1 compression of a C head.

columbiA · 09-10-2013, 02:57 PM

The 32 WP,s are available new.If you need a new impeller,don't buy a repro as they are not machined properly & will not allow the pump to go far enough into the head.I ended up using the impeller from a spare pump & Installing a 1/8" roll pin,which is a good idea with a new impeller as well.

Mike V. Florida · 09-10-2013, 03:26 PM

This may help;

http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/head...ssionratio.htm

Tiny · 09-10-2013, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

This may help;

http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/head...ssionratio.htm

Love that site
Thanks Mike

Purdy Swoft · 09-10-2013, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiny

Purdy
What do you think of using the V8 water pumps? Is there a way to mount a fan?

The V8 pumps had seals that lasted a long time so I've been told. I've never used one. Its been done many times but I don't know about the fan. The model B pump is a big improvement over the model A setup. The larger impeller design pumps slower. the impeller is contained inside the housing and doesn't pump water out the filler neck like the model A pump ofted does. The B pump and fan are much easier to remove and replace without moveing the radiator If you rebuild the pump yourself you can install the same sealed rear bushing that can be used with the A pump The sealed brass packing nut from Brattons can also be used . I wont call names but I would avoid the sealed packing nut that has the seal visable in the front. I use the modern front bearing and sleeve on mine and it stabalizes the front of the shaft and removes end play. If its not a show car it can help make an improved driver car.

Tiny · 09-10-2013, 05:12 PM

Not a show car at all. Just a driver that I like to tinker with and "improve" with upgrades like this. It seems as though the A motor with B parts is the hot set up. I have a B carb this head and I'm on the hunt for a distributor.

Charlie Stephens · 09-10-2013, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiny

Not a show car at all. Just a driver that I like to tinker with and "improve" with upgrades like this. It seems as though the A motor with B parts is the hot set up. I have a B carb this head and I'm on the hunt for a distributor.

Try Renner's for the distributer, rennerscorner.com, (734) 428-8424. Remember if you use a B distributer you need a B timing cover if you intend to time it by the book.

Charlie Stephens

Tiny · 09-10-2013, 06:18 PM

Thanks Charlie

Tiny · 09-12-2013, 11:54 AM

Hes some pics of the head, they say it never happened if you don't have pics!LOL

And heres the start of my "poor boys" hop up kit

Tiny · 09-12-2013, 11:55 AM

So what do you guys think? Mollasses bath for a couple weeks?

Tom Wesenberg · 09-12-2013, 12:15 PM

Yes, that should do it. I've found that keeping the molasses in a dark container in the hot sun helps a lot. When the temps dropped my molasses seemed to quit working.

I bought a couple 10 foot pieces of rebar the other day to use the electroysis rust removal on my mower deck.

Tiny · 09-12-2013, 12:21 PM

Thats a great idea Tom. Its going to be in the low 100' and mid 90's for at least another week here. Hopefully it will work faster. Just the Sulphered Molasses cut with water? Right? Ive read 5 to 1 Hows that sound to you?

ursus · 09-12-2013, 07:02 PM

I think a 4 to1 or 3 to 1 mixture will work better. I wouldn't use sulphured molasses because the sulphur is added to inhibit microbial growth and it is the microbes that actually make this work. I used a animal grade molasses from a feed store. The key is hot weather, ideally 90 degrees or higher, but it will work down to around 70 degrees albeit slower and less effectively.

09-10-2013, 11:34 AM	#1
Tiny Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Redding Cal Posts: 1,388	The F3 Head This summer I purchased a huge pile of rusty metal that was the part of an A estate that no one else wanted. I sold, scrapped, and found new homes for a lot of it. I have kept a few treasures for my self. One of these treasures is an F3 "B" head. I havent examined it real close for cracks and such,just put it on the shelf for "Someday". Today I did a little research and didn't find much. What I did find is that it is assumed to be a later Ford replacement head that has a heavier casting than the "C" head. Someone had said it gave their AA more pep, in an old post on here. So can we beat this dead horse a little more? What is the F3 head? Does anyone know its compression ratio? Will it give more "pep"? Anyone running one? Some feedback would be greatly appreciated. As always Thanks for your input

09-10-2013, 12:40 PM	#2
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: The F3 Head It has the more efficient heart shaped combustion chamber. Go to http--dynosheets.htmmodelaparts.net This is the Piranio's dyno tests. scroll don to stock model A with C head. The F3 head has been claimed to only be 4.6 compression ratio, if this is true the F3 head is the same as the C head. The test shows 46.77 horsepower at 2200 RPM . this is nearly seven horse power, add an .080 overbore and it will be seven or more horsepower. add a B cam, carb and manifold and it should put out as much horsepower as a stock B at 50 hp. I could feel a good difference with this setup on uncle Albert, a double A that I had. I've still got the engine sitting in the back corner of my shop

09-10-2013, 12:53 PM	#3
Tiny Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Redding Cal Posts: 1,388	Re: The F3 Head Thanks Purdy Thats the info I was searching for. Almost 7hp look out!! Is there a source for B water pumps?

09-10-2013, 01:13 PM	#4
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: The F3 Head Try Berts 800-321-1931 . They've probably got them in used or rebuilt cond. The model B pumps are just as easy to rebuild as the model A pumps. They both use the same parts, the only difference is the length of the model A pump shaft. I shorten the model A pump shaft and use it. There are two different length B style pump housings. The 1932 style lines up with the model A pulleys. The 33-34 pumps are a little shorter so as to allow for the laid back radiator and grill on the later models. The longer length 32 shaft will work in the 33-34 style pumps and won't be noticed with the fan in place. Its just a matter of shortening the model A water pump shaft to the length of the 32 B length. You use the B impeller Last edited by Purdy Swoft; 09-10-2013 at 01:33 PM.

09-10-2013, 01:26 PM	#5
Tiny Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Redding Cal Posts: 1,388	Re: The F3 Head Good idea. I never would have thought of Berts for 32 parts but i guess B parts would still be inline (HAHA I made a funny)with their business. Before I buy a pump I should probably give the head a close inspection and a derusting.

09-10-2013, 02:19 PM	#6
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: The F3 Head Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I would also check for cracks. Most heads need a little trueing up after removal. I use to have them milled a little for this reason and to leave a good surface for the gasket to seal. I used a copper clad B gasket with mine, I can't remember the parts number. I have found leaving only .030 height in the counter bore gives an improvement to most heads. I didn't do this to mine but will if I ever need to remove it again. Some shave the counterbore completely away. I don't recommend this with a C head because they are so thin. The F3 heads do have a thicker better casting than the C heads.

09-10-2013, 02:24 PM	#7
Tiny Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Redding Cal Posts: 1,388	Re: The F3 Head Purdy What do you think of using the V8 water pumps? Is there a way to mount a fan?

09-10-2013, 02:49 PM	#8
ursus Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,374	Re: The F3 Head At one time I had three of the F3 heads that had been removed from Model-B engines that were used in industrial applications. The engines were all late 1930's Diamond blocks that magnafluxed out with so many cracks that I scrapped them. The F3 heads were all sound, well made, and crack free. The compression chambers looked exactly like that of the C heads and when I CC'd each of them they were identical to the 4.6 to 1 compression of a C head.

09-10-2013, 02:57 PM	#9
columbiA Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 1,746	Re: The F3 Head The 32 WP,s are available new.If you need a new impeller,don't buy a repro as they are not machined properly & will not allow the pump to go far enough into the head.I ended up using the impeller from a spare pump & Installing a 1/8" roll pin,which is a good idea with a new impeller as well.

09-10-2013, 03:26 PM	#10
Mike V. Florida Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South Florida Posts: 14,054	Re: The F3 Head This may help; http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/head...ssionratio.htm __________________ What's right about America is that although we have a mess of problems, we have great capacity - intellect and resources - to do some thing about them. - Henry Ford II

09-10-2013, 05:12 PM	#13
Tiny Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Redding Cal Posts: 1,388	Re: The F3 Head Not a show car at all. Just a driver that I like to tinker with and "improve" with upgrades like this. It seems as though the A motor with B parts is the hot set up. I have a B carb this head and I'm on the hunt for a distributor.

09-10-2013, 06:18 PM	#15
Tiny Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Redding Cal Posts: 1,388	Re: The F3 Head Thanks Charlie

09-12-2013, 11:54 AM	#16
Tiny Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Redding Cal Posts: 1,388	Re: The F3 Head Hes some pics of the head, they say it never happened if you don't have pics!LOL And heres the start of my "poor boys" hop up kit

09-12-2013, 11:55 AM	#17
Tiny Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Redding Cal Posts: 1,388	Re: The F3 Head So what do you guys think? Mollasses bath for a couple weeks?

09-12-2013, 12:15 PM	#18
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: The F3 Head Yes, that should do it. I've found that keeping the molasses in a dark container in the hot sun helps a lot. When the temps dropped my molasses seemed to quit working. I bought a couple 10 foot pieces of rebar the other day to use the electroysis rust removal on my mower deck.

09-12-2013, 12:21 PM	#19
Tiny Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Redding Cal Posts: 1,388	Re: The F3 Head Thats a great idea Tom. Its going to be in the low 100' and mid 90's for at least another week here. Hopefully it will work faster. Just the Sulphered Molasses cut with water? Right? Ive read 5 to 1 Hows that sound to you?

09-12-2013, 07:02 PM	#20
ursus Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,374	Re: The F3 Head I think a 4 to1 or 3 to 1 mixture will work better. I wouldn't use sulphured molasses because the sulphur is added to inhibit microbial growth and it is the microbes that actually make this work. I used a animal grade molasses from a feed store. The key is hot weather, ideally 90 degrees or higher, but it will work down to around 70 degrees albeit slower and less effectively.