Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Early V8 (1932-53)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-27-2014, 12:52 AM   #1
Bassman/NZ
Senior Member
 
Bassman/NZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Napier, New Zealand
Posts: 2,001
Default Results of milling iron heads.

After consulting Ol' Ron's and JWL's books, I measured my combustion chambers with the tin foil balls. I had 50thou taken off the heads, and realised that the dome shape in the chamber no longer matches the top of the piston. Some judicious use of a flap wheel produced a shape fairly close to that of the piston top, with a 45thou clearance. A pair of new Best gaskets and torque 'er down. Woah! they are right. This is the best bang for the buck to be done to a flattie. With an otherwise stock C59A engine, the result is amazing. The torque rocks the car considerably when the throttle is blipped, and out on the road the little AV8 goes like a raped ape. It actually goes much better than when I had the Weiand heads on it. Just thought this result may be of interest to anyone contemplating some basic mods.
Bassman/NZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2014, 03:43 AM   #2
scooder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,593
Default Re: Results of milling iron heads.

Damn good stuff right there. Always good to here actual seat of the pants results.
Increased flow as we know helps up top, and cutting heads drops the breathing ability, again we know that. But cutting heads also ups the compression ratio, which helps down the bottom, and this is where you feel it in real world driving on the road.
Like what you did with the flap wheel, it removes a sort of sharp edge left over from the cutting.
Are the heads also C59A? Are these already slightly higher compression ratio than the US 59A heads? I don't have my head chart with me. Did you CC the heads pre and post cut? Be good to know the numbers ( for me )
last thing the Weiand heads, I think these were actually quite low compression when compared to Offy 400's and down, and Edelbrock heads. I've heard reports in the past from folk who put them on stock size engines and we're disappointed with the result, replaced them with offy 400's and loved them. To clarify I'm talking stock size street driven flatheads with stock or mild cam, two carbs and No porting. Not high winding large cube silly cam race engines.
"raped ape" I like that a lot, sounds fast.
Martin.
scooder is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 04-27-2014, 04:36 AM   #3
Bassman/NZ
Senior Member
 
Bassman/NZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Napier, New Zealand
Posts: 2,001
Default Re: Results of milling iron heads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scooder View Post
Damn good stuff right there. Always good to here actual seat of the pants results.
Increased flow as we know helps up top, and cutting heads drops the breathing ability, again we know that. But cutting heads also ups the compression ratio, which helps down the bottom, and this is where you feel it in real world driving on the road.
Like what you did with the flap wheel, it removes a sort of sharp edge left over from the cutting.
Are the heads also C59A? Are these already slightly higher compression ratio than the US 59A heads? I don't have my head chart with me. Did you CC the heads pre and post cut? Be good to know the numbers ( for me )
last thing the Weiand heads, I think these were actually quite low compression when compared to Offy 400's and down, and Edelbrock heads. I've heard reports in the past from folk who put them on stock size engines and we're disappointed with the result, replaced them with offy 400's and loved them. To clarify I'm talking stock size street driven flatheads with stock or mild cam, two carbs and No porting. Not high winding large cube silly cam race engines.
"raped ape" I like that a lot, sounds fast.
Martin.
The heads are C7RA-A which seem to be what comes on the Canadian 59As. I did not cc them first unfortunately. The edge of the chamber after cutting was about 5/16" in from the gasket line, and when I tried them like that, the edge kissed the piston, so I shaped the dome back out to the gasket line.
Bassman/NZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2014, 10:46 AM   #4
keith oh
Senior Member
 
keith oh's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Millersport, central ohio
Posts: 668
Default Re: Results of milling iron heads.

A while back there was a lot of talk about "great results"grooving heads of other than Ford Flatheads. Has anybody had experience grooving Ford heads?
keith oh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2014, 11:07 AM   #5
Kahuna
Senior Member
 
Kahuna's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NorCal
Posts: 2,617
Default Re: Results of milling iron heads.

I am also a big believer in the C7RA heads. The combustion chamber seems to be much better shaped than the aftermarket hi-compression stuff available.
Just my opinion
Kahuna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2014, 11:16 AM   #6
T Scott
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: East Boothbay, Maine
Posts: 272
Default Re: Results of milling iron heads.

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Quote:
Originally Posted by keith oh View Post
A while back there was a lot of talk about "great results"grooving heads of other than Ford Flatheads. Has anybody had experience grooving Ford heads?
Charlie Yapp had an article in Secrets of Speed about a year and a half ago about a guy in India who was grooving head combustion chambers with supposedly positive results. These were later model overhead valve heads but as I remember some of the feedback was that a lot of guys were itchy to try it on their early Fords, both bangers and V8's. Maybe a call to Charlie would be worthwhile to see where that whole thing went.
T Scott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2014, 06:43 PM   #7
Talkwrench
Senior Member
 
Talkwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 2,687
Default Re: Results of milling iron heads.

Good to hear. I suppose it would be the same for my little 37 21 stud? chamber size similar?
__________________
"Came too close to dying to stop living now!"
Talkwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2014, 10:33 PM   #8
Ol' Ron
Senior Member
 
Ol' Ron's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chester Vt
Posts: 8,842
Default Re: Results of milling iron heads.

>050" is quite a bit, I just took .040" off a set of EAB heads and had to do the sane thing with the edge. I really don't think it raises the CR all that muck, mabe 1/2 point at most. What it does is create a very high turbulent AF mixture slamed right into the spark plug at just the right time. This will also improve fuel economy in cruise. Now get you AF right, and timing right and you'll understand what John, Richard and I have been talking about for the past few years. It's called Tuning.
Ol' Ron is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2014, 02:47 AM   #9
scooder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,593
Default Re: Results of milling iron heads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talkwrench View Post
Good to hear. I suppose it would be the same for my little 37 21 stud? chamber size similar?
Yep! Cutting heads a decent amount (.040-.050 or as much as you dare) will give you higher compression ratio and a tighter combustion chamber, all good.
Just make sure nothing touches.
Martin.
scooder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2014, 06:12 PM   #10
49fordv8f4
Senior Member
 
49fordv8f4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Yellville,AR
Posts: 222
Default Re: Results of milling iron heads.

I do know that if you mill .100 off '49-'53 Merc heads and run them on an 8BA with a '52-'53 Ford cam you will have to use two gaskets on each spark plug to keep it running . But, that engine would also run 60 mph easy in a '47 COE with a 16' bed and a two speed axle. I don't really know if milling the heads made much difference other than causing the valves to mash the spark plugs closed, but the engine did run good. I modified the late model cam so I could use a '42 crab distributor. The engine was bored .040 but otherwise stock. I always felt the cam probably helped as much as anything.
Mark

Last edited by 49fordv8f4; 04-28-2014 at 06:18 PM.
49fordv8f4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2014, 07:05 PM   #11
Walt Dupont--Me.
Senior Member
 
Walt Dupont--Me.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Gardiner Me.
Posts: 4,200
Default Re: Results of milling iron heads.

The 52-53 EAB cam is a good cam.
Walt Dupont--Me. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2014, 12:04 AM   #12
Talkwrench
Senior Member
 
Talkwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 2,687
Default Re: Results of milling iron heads.

Thanks Scooder. Is it wise to work off the chamber size? Meaning can it be taken that if it CC's at what a stock head should be it would then be safe to mill OR can there be other variables?
__________________
"Came too close to dying to stop living now!"
Talkwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2014, 02:31 AM   #13
Bassman/NZ
Senior Member
 
Bassman/NZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Napier, New Zealand
Posts: 2,001
Default Re: Results of milling iron heads.

I arrived at the 50thou by using the tinfoil ball system. The tinfoil spec'd out at 95thou. Ol Ron and JWL recommended a 45thou quench space, so there's the 50thou. There was heaps of space above the valve heads, so that did not enter into the equation.
Bassman/NZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2014, 02:48 AM   #14
scooder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,593
Default Re: Results of milling iron heads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talkwrench View Post
Thanks Scooder. Is it wise to work off the chamber size? Meaning can it be taken that if it CC's at what a stock head should be it would then be safe to mill OR can there be other variables?
I don't fully understand your question. But I feel you may be over thinking this. Stock engine with stock heads, a 0.050" cut won't get you in to trouble. Just make sure of your clearances. I feel an more than 0.055"-0.060" the head sealing face may be gettin to thin, if you look at them the castings arnt very thick.
I would be cool if you did cc them before and after, and let us know the figures and type of head. I do like good reference numbers.
Martin.
scooder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2014, 10:20 AM   #15
blucar
Senior Member
 
blucar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ventura, CA
Posts: 2,464
Default Re: Results of milling iron heads.

It was over fifty years ago the last time that the 59 AB engine in my '36 was rebuilt. We discarded the Offy heads that had been on the engine since '54 because they were badly eroded. The machinist that did the work was very heavy into building engines for the stock car racer's, therefore he wanted longevity..
I don't recall how much the 59AB heads were shaved, I do recall that the heads were modified, being "domed and flycut".. I do know that the object was to get the compression ratio up to about 9. to 1.. The engine is over-bored .060, four ring pistons, Weber F-1 cam. The carbs are two 97's on a Offy Super manifold..
The engine runs very nicely on 89 octane fuel..
__________________
Bill.... 36 5 win cpe
blucar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2014, 12:16 PM   #16
scooder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,593
Default Re: Results of milling iron heads.

Still going strong after fifty years, I'd say he got the longevity right. Sounds like a nice little engine.
Martin.
scooder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2014, 03:06 PM   #17
Ol' Ron
Senior Member
 
Ol' Ron's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chester Vt
Posts: 8,842
Default Re: Results of milling iron heads.

don't think you can get any where near 9:1 CR with stock 59 a heads with that small an engine. The transfer area is much too big. The best heads for that engine would be the 81A heads, but 8;1 would still be difficult. However, a tight piston to heaad clearance can do wonders.
Ol' Ron is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2014, 12:15 AM   #18
34s4ever
Senior Member
 
34s4ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 530
Default Re: Results of milling iron heads.

Glad I saw this thread!..I was just thinking about doing this to the 21 stud motor in my car rather than buying a set of repop Eddie Myer heads..After discussing it with my machinist we decided to start with a 35 thou cut but I'll try the tin foil measurement first to see what clearance I have..CCing the chamber too!
34s4ever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2014, 01:41 AM   #19
scooder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,593
Default Re: Results of milling iron heads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 34s4ever View Post
Glad I saw this thread!..I was just thinking about doing this to the 21 stud motor in my car rather than buying a set of repop Eddie Myer heads..After discussing it with my machinist we decided to start with a 35 thou cut but I'll try the tin foil measurement first to see what clearance I have..CCing the chamber too!
Is yours using flat top pistons or dome? Got an early 50's hotrod yearbook here with an article on cutting heads in this it states, for dome top 0.050" cut. With no need to dome or flycut for valve clearance, but on flat top type you can cut 0.080-0.090" and get 8:1. I can double check if you want.
Martin.
scooder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2014, 02:12 AM   #20
Brian
Senior Member
 
Brian's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Masterton, New Zealand
Posts: 3,816
Default Re: Results of milling iron heads.

34s4ever, Those repop Eddie Meyers perform far better than any stock Ford head; cast iron or aluminum. They have a different shaped combustion chamber and relocated spark plugs.
__________________
Unfortunately, two half wits don't make a whole wit!
Brian is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:59 PM.