Timing gear cover removal questions

[Synchro909]

Getting to those screws across the front of the sump can be a hassle. While they are out, I cut a screw driver slot in them. A screw driver gets in there easily and makes fitting and removal easier. You may like to try it.

[TerryH]

Fred....if you replace the timing gear, I would sure recommend one of the newer laminated type instead of the typical all fiber gear. I had a new one installed this past year and all is fine.

[700rpm]

Fred, I sent you an email.

[CarlG]

I would suggest one of Mr Dan's bronze camshaft gears with the matching crank gear.

[heneste]

Sometimes in a tight fit you can reset the bolts in place by using the tape method on a socket as you mentioned or use a small enough piece of rubber hose to grab the bolt at the head. Once seated in a few turns, pull off the hose and screw in fully with a flexible socket.

[Fred K-OR]

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Originally Posted by 1955cj5

You can take the side cover off if all you want to do is look at the teeth..there is one pan bolt underneath but is easy to get to......the front cover will have to come of if you need to change the gear though..

Well I got to this point. I have ordered new gaskets, taken out (I think) all of the bolts that hold the side cover on, but I can't get the thing to come off. Yes I did take the pan bolt out. Do I have to take the right front motor mount bolt out also just to get the side cover off? Are there any other "secrets" to get this side cover off besides pounding on it?

Need some ideas how to get the side cover off now that, I think, all the bolts are out? I think I put to much gasket cement on the gaskets when I put the front cover and side cover on back a few years.

[Fred K-OR]

Sorry to bother you guys. I got it off! The harder banging on it did the job. Now to go to the next step.

[1955cj5]

Well, there you go...just needed the right sized hammer.....do you have a picture of the gear?

[Fred K-OR]

Originally Posted by 1955cj5

Well, there you go...just needed the right sized hammer.....do you have a picture of the gear?

I turned the engine over with the crank, and the gear did not show any problems as far as bad teeth, etc. It rotated true and did not wobble.

I started the engine and the gear ran true, no wobble, no banging against the body of the engine or the cover.

I tried to post some pictures. You will note some curd in the teeth. This is from when I cleaned the gasket off the side of the cover. I also took a movie of it running but don't know if it will post. Could not get the movie to post but could email if someone wants it.

Where do I go from here? Any good ideas?

[1955cj5]

What led you to suspect the timing gear in the first place? Was there a noise of some sort?


.

[Fred K-OR]

Originally Posted by 1955cj5

What led you to suspect the timing gear in the first place? Was there a noise of some sort?


.

Yes, I do have a "clicking" sound knock. I am not an expert with this type of thing, but it just did not seem like a bearing knock.

I did check the valve settings because I thought it may be a value that needed to be adjusted. I did find the #6 valve with was at .026 instead of .013. I did adjust it to .014. It did not seem to stop the noise. But I may have messed it up and did not get it adjusted the way it should have been or it became un-adjusted again.

Receive a number of comments on this site and from other Model Aers that said that it may be a bad timing gear. So that is why I checked the timing gear. But it looks like the gear is OK and not messed up.

So now don't know which way to go from here. Any good ideas?

[1955cj5]

Well, I re-read some of your "knock knock" thread......you mentioned that you shorted each cylinder individually...did you short both #2 and #3 together and see if the knock goes away?

I also have a small noise, it happens at road speed only and responds to the spark lever. It wasn't there before, and I was hoping to take the side cover off and find excessive valve clearance as you did......

Already did the timing gear inspection...that's how I got the picture posted earlier!

Randy

[denniskliesen]

Have you tried running it with the fan belt off? I had a noise like you describe and it was the fan belt.

[Marshall V. Daut]

When you had the timing gear covers off, did you check the backlash between the fiber timing gear and the steel crankshaft gear? It should only be .003 - .005" or so. Tolerable is up to .006" or .007", as I recall. More than that and you'll get a "click" between the gear teeth that translates to a slight knock. I just went through this with a friend's Model A engine. The gears had about 0.011" to 0.012" backlash between them, which definitely produced a clicking sound when I rotated them against each other. Feeler gauges confirmed that too much backlash was present and yes, there was a faint knock up front when the engine ran. The fiber gear had been replaced only a few hundred miles before three decades ago, even though the car had not been driven much in the intervening 30+ years. So, the fiber gear was not worn.
Because the Babbitt in the block was so woefully worn, I suspect the crankshaft now sits a little higher inside the block, which would increase the backlash between timing gears. I installed the largest oversized fiber timing gear available because the friend didn't want to spend the money to have the main bearings re-poured. The .005" oversized timing gear reduced the backlash to around .006", which is not ideal, but most certainly softened the clicking/knocking to barely perceptible.
If you didn't check this area, that may be the cause of the elusive knock.
Marshall

[Fred K-OR]

Originally Posted by 1955cj5

Well, I re-read some of your "knock knock" thread......you mentioned that you shorted each cylinder individually...did you short both #2 and #3 together and see if the knock goes away?

I also have a small noise, it happens at road speed only and responds to the spark lever. It wasn't there before, and I was hoping to take the side cover off and find excessive valve clearance as you did......

Already did the timing gear inspection...that's how I got the picture posted earlier!

Randy

Randy,

I did get to doing what you suggested above, that is short both #2 and #3 together. Knock was still there. If it went away, what would that indicate?

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by Marshall V. Daut

Because the Babbitt in the block was so woefully worn, I suspect the crankshaft now sits a little higher inside the block, which would increase the backlash between timing gears. I installed the largest oversized fiber timing gear available because the friend didn't want to spend the money to have the main bearings re-poured. The .005" oversized timing gear reduced the backlash to around .006", which is not ideal, but most certainly softened the clicking/knocking to barely perceptible.
If you didn't check this area, that may be the cause of the elusive knock.
Marshall

I must be missing something but what? I would have thought that would reduce the backlash because the camshaft is higher in the block than the crankshaft. Your posts are usually considered and accurate so I must be missing something. I hate that!