The Ford Barn

mach0415 · 12-09-2023, 02:57 AM

When I bought my ‘28 Tudor 3 years ago, I installed new harnesses, replaced the 6v bulbs, replaced the 6v battery and observed 10A charging at all times with accessories off. When applying the brake (single tuna can light) or turn on the dash light the ammeter drops to 5A charge. However when I turn on the headlights/taillight (fluted lens, single bulb, bright as they can possibly be, lol), the ammeter shows a discharge of 10A. I have not measured voltage, as of yet, but am perplexed as to why such a discharge, when the genny seems to charge well without loads. Has anyone else experienced this?
All the posts I have read indicate that their genny regulates just fine, no matter what loads are on. Thanks in advance!

nkaminar · 12-09-2023, 07:29 AM

Check the voltage. Also check the ground cable for the battery. Is it connected to the frame and to the transmission (two cables)?

Are you observing the amperage when the engine is running at a fast idle or when driving the car down the road? The generator does not provide full power when at an idle.

It is normal for the generator to not put out enough amperage to run the head lights when it is adjusted for running without the lights on. But this seems like an unusual case. What wattage bulbs are you using in the head lights? If you are running the car at night you may have to turn up the amperage by moving the movable brush.

I learned about the movable brush when a teenager. I drove my car at night one time and the engine quit because the battery voltage went low. In the morning it started up and drove fine, without the lights on.

Kurt in NJ · 12-09-2023, 08:15 AM

The owners instruction book states that the ammeter will show discharge with the headlights on.
what wattage bulb do you have in the dash light, it should be a small wattage bulb like the tail light, not the higher wattage of stop light bulb.
as long as the generator puts more into the battery than is taken out the discharge with the headlights on doesn’t matter, the owners instruction book says to check the state of charge in the battery, if it goes down increase charging rate, if it uses too much water decrease charging rate

Fullraceflathead · 12-09-2023, 08:50 AM

With the headlights on 10 amps is about a normal draw that's what I have in my pickup

CT Jack · 12-09-2023, 10:01 AM

I agree with suggestions made regarding a good ground to both the frame and engine casting. With the battery fully charged and lights off adjust the 3rd brush until ammeter indicates 0 at idle. I would replace all the lamps with 6v LED's then the maximum load would only occur when using the starter or the horn.

rotorwrench · 12-09-2023, 12:49 PM

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This has always been a drawback of the 3-brush type generators. If set primarily for lights ON opertion, the amperage will be high enough to overcharge the battery when running with lights OFF. A person can run the headlamps all the time or the new alternative is to change the bulbs to LED types. It takes much less amperage to operate the LEDs but they are expensive.

Back in the day, folks would run the headlights a while with the generator set for daytime operation and the lights would slowly dim out as the battery was pulling the load. Most folks didn't know how to adjust the generator but some folks did. The powerhouse generators were easier to adjust but folks still didn't want to mess with them. Later in the 30s. Ford started offering the two stage generator controller as an option. They had a cut out and a bypass relay in an oval shaped can on the generator. When the headlights were turned on a relay would open and allow full amperage to the system. I think it used a dropping resistor when the lights were off and bypassed the resistor when lights were on. These were offered right up through 1939 when the two brush generators came out. They had some reliability problems so they likely were not all that popular. I still see them on flea-pay now and then but most folks don't know what they are.

If a person runs the halogen type head lamp bulbs then they should convert to an alternator in order to have the current capability to pull the load on them. An old 3-brush type or a 5-brush powerhouse can just barely pull halogen type bulbs. It would slowly lose battery capacity while running for long periods at night.

Bob C · 12-09-2023, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mach0415

When I bought my ‘28 Tudor 3 years ago, I installed new harnesses, replaced the 6v bulbs, replaced the 6v battery and observed 10A charging at all times with accessories off. When applying the brake (single tuna can light) or turn on the dash light the ammeter drops to 5A charge. However when I turn on the headlights/taillight (fluted lens, single bulb, bright as they can possibly be, lol), the ammeter shows a discharge of 10A. I have not measured voltage, as of yet, but am perplexed as to why such a discharge, when the genny seems to charge well without loads. Has anyone else experienced this?
All the posts I have read indicate that their genny regulates just fine, no matter what loads are on. Thanks in advance!

Unless some one has added and aftermarket regulator the
stock generator does not have a regulator.

mach0415 · 12-09-2023, 01:45 PM

Thanks all! I am going to look into bulb wattage and perform some electrical measurements. I’ll be out of town for a week, so it may be a bit.

ndnchf · 12-09-2023, 03:06 PM

I have focused beam LED headlights and LED tailights in my '31 pickup. I run the stock 6v generator's 3rd brush at its lowest output setting. This provides 4-5 amps above idle when the cutout points close. Even at its lowest output with the lights on, I still get a slight positive charge. It really is a great combination.

I made a short video showing this.

https://youtu.be/aAF18KGnH1k?si=1_9Dq51mxz0BH84G

12-09-2023, 02:57 AM	#1
mach0415 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Chester, SC Posts: 162	Powerhouse Genny Charge/Discharge When I bought my ‘28 Tudor 3 years ago, I installed new harnesses, replaced the 6v bulbs, replaced the 6v battery and observed 10A charging at all times with accessories off. When applying the brake (single tuna can light) or turn on the dash light the ammeter drops to 5A charge. However when I turn on the headlights/taillight (fluted lens, single bulb, bright as they can possibly be, lol), the ammeter shows a discharge of 10A. I have not measured voltage, as of yet, but am perplexed as to why such a discharge, when the genny seems to charge well without loads. Has anyone else experienced this? All the posts I have read indicate that their genny regulates just fine, no matter what loads are on. Thanks in advance! __________________ Thanks, Mark in SC "We the unwilling, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful." -- By society, who is still arguing over who said it.

12-09-2023, 07:29 AM	#2
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 3,900	Re: Powerhouse Genny Charge/Discharge Check the voltage. Also check the ground cable for the battery. Is it connected to the frame and to the transmission (two cables)? Are you observing the amperage when the engine is running at a fast idle or when driving the car down the road? The generator does not provide full power when at an idle. It is normal for the generator to not put out enough amperage to run the head lights when it is adjusted for running without the lights on. But this seems like an unusual case. What wattage bulbs are you using in the head lights? If you are running the car at night you may have to turn up the amperage by moving the movable brush. I learned about the movable brush when a teenager. I drove my car at night one time and the engine quit because the battery voltage went low. In the morning it started up and drove fine, without the lights on. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

12-09-2023, 08:15 AM	#3
Kurt in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: on the Littlefield Posts: 6,159	Re: Powerhouse Genny Charge/Discharge The owners instruction book states that the ammeter will show discharge with the headlights on. what wattage bulb do you have in the dash light, it should be a small wattage bulb like the tail light, not the higher wattage of stop light bulb. as long as the generator puts more into the battery than is taken out the discharge with the headlights on doesn’t matter, the owners instruction book says to check the state of charge in the battery, if it goes down increase charging rate, if it uses too much water decrease charging rate

12-09-2023, 08:50 AM	#4
Fullraceflathead Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Chillicothe, Missouri Posts: 1,176	Re: Powerhouse Genny Charge/Discharge With the headlights on 10 amps is about a normal draw that's what I have in my pickup __________________ "If I asked people what they wanted they would have said faster horses." -Henry Ford "Primitive technology is not a design flaw" 1928 Ford Model A Roadster Pickup 1930 Gordon Smith Air Compressor 1941 Willy's Pickup 1960 Thunderbird-For Sale 1964 Buick Riviera 2x4 425 1965 Pontiac GTO, 455 Super Duty 2004 Dodge Ram SRT-10, V-10 Viper 1977 Charger Jet Boat,460 Ford,Jacuzzi Jet Front Engine Nostalgia Dragster,Supercharged 296 "Fullrace Flathead" Ford Engine Build up on DVD ask

12-09-2023, 10:01 AM	#5
CT Jack Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Hebron, CT Posts: 432	Re: Powerhouse Genny Charge/Discharge I agree with suggestions made regarding a good ground to both the frame and engine casting. With the battery fully charged and lights off adjust the 3rd brush until ammeter indicates 0 at idle. I would replace all the lamps with 6v LED's then the maximum load would only occur when using the starter or the horn.

12-09-2023, 12:49 PM	#6
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,440	Re: Powerhouse Genny Charge/Discharge Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) This has always been a drawback of the 3-brush type generators. If set primarily for lights ON opertion, the amperage will be high enough to overcharge the battery when running with lights OFF. A person can run the headlamps all the time or the new alternative is to change the bulbs to LED types. It takes much less amperage to operate the LEDs but they are expensive. Back in the day, folks would run the headlights a while with the generator set for daytime operation and the lights would slowly dim out as the battery was pulling the load. Most folks didn't know how to adjust the generator but some folks did. The powerhouse generators were easier to adjust but folks still didn't want to mess with them. Later in the 30s. Ford started offering the two stage generator controller as an option. They had a cut out and a bypass relay in an oval shaped can on the generator. When the headlights were turned on a relay would open and allow full amperage to the system. I think it used a dropping resistor when the lights were off and bypassed the resistor when lights were on. These were offered right up through 1939 when the two brush generators came out. They had some reliability problems so they likely were not all that popular. I still see them on flea-pay now and then but most folks don't know what they are. If a person runs the halogen type head lamp bulbs then they should convert to an alternator in order to have the current capability to pull the load on them. An old 3-brush type or a 5-brush powerhouse can just barely pull halogen type bulbs. It would slowly lose battery capacity while running for long periods at night. Last edited by rotorwrench; 12-10-2023 at 02:23 PM.

12-09-2023, 01:45 PM	#8
mach0415 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Chester, SC Posts: 162	Re: Powerhouse Genny Charge/Discharge Thanks all! I am going to look into bulb wattage and perform some electrical measurements. I’ll be out of town for a week, so it may be a bit. __________________ Thanks, Mark in SC "We the unwilling, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful." -- By society, who is still arguing over who said it.