Help with 215 OHV I6 2x1 set up

[51PanelMan]

I got my truck back on the road after a full engine rebuild, but am now having problems with it running lean/rich and still backfiring slightly. The engine is a Ford 215 OHV 6 There's also blue/black smoke coming out of the tailpipe. I took it into a mechanic that's familiar with multiple set ups, but on V8s. He told me that the linkage that I have isn't progressive (linkage came with the kit) and that one carb is running more fuel than the other. Another thing he told me is that my set up doesn't have a hard stop to control the idle speed. He's unable to ajust/sync them, as well as set the timing.



I've seen a few other I6 dual carb set ups that had progressive linkage. Appears that I may need that type of linkage that I need. I had both carbs rebuilt, but still think they weren't done correctly. I don't think that they're jetted right to work together. Mine may be jetted too high.



This is my set up now.









I'm wondering if any one knows of someone who is more knowledgeable with multi-carb set ups that can take a look and tell me what's wrong. I'm in the Bay Area (California) and don't mind a little travel. Perhaps someone knows who can build me a progressive linkage or know where I can buy one? Also, where to obtain a hard stopper for the carbs? Lastly, maybe someone who's familiar with Holley 1904s and can go through my carbs again and get them done right to work as a pair.


I really want to keep the dual intake set up, so any help/guidance would be greatly appreciated. I'm anxious to get some answers because I need to get back to my mechanic on Monday or pull the truck until I get more answers. Thanks for the help.

[41ford1]

I have the same set up on my 53 courier. And yes, it is a bit of a pain to get it right. You are right it's not progressive. With the carbs so far apart it may not run well progressively. The system uses the throttle stop on both carbs. The carbs should be matched in venturi size to get decent results. It is preferred to have matching list numbers. That way you are sure they are matched. The easiest way to sync them is to disconnect the linkage then set the idle with a unit-syn or stethescope. If you use a stethescope, adjust until the hiss sounds the same in each carb.

The Load-O-Matic distributor does not like dual carbs. Vacuum signals are changed when the second carb is added. Leave the vac line disconnected and set the timing. I have decent results at 12BTC. I'm looking to adapt late '70 ford six dizzy to my 215. Those have centrifugal and vacuum advance system.

[51PanelMan]

I believe that the carbs are matching in venturi size. I'm not understanding the "matching list numbers". Are those written on the carbs somewhere?

Is this a good Uni-Syn tool to use? http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Edelbr...-Tool,267.html

I'm curious in seeing your set up, especially the linkage, to see if mine is close to normal. Would it be possible for you to post, PM or email me a picture?

[41ford1]

The list # is stamped on the inlet boss.
The speedway unit is what I was referring to.
Your linkage is identical to mine. Right now the car is in a rented garage. I'll send you a picture next time I have it.

[ken ct]

First thing i would do is get rid of all that teflon tape you got on ALL those gas connections.I would not use progressive linkage on this or a V8 dual setup,they dont work correctly.These carbs seem to be jetted wrong and need to be setup correctly and run straight linkage to them. OMO. Also that type of Chineese air cleaners are very restrictive filters in them, try running with out them,you might be surprized. ken ct.Depending how many miles you have on this setup you may already have pieces of teflon in the carbs already. ken ct.

[41ford1]

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I did find this picture. Not much linkage detail. It is identical to yours. FYI the air cleaners are K&N 6" diameter.

[Ol' Ron]

What kind of distributor are you running? Is it a Load a matic?

[41ford1]

Ron, It is a Load-O-Matic. It runs crappy with the vacuum hooked up. I was able to get it to run decently at 12°BTC with the vacuum disconnected. It makes 17.5MPG this way. I have a Malloy Dual-Life that is centrifugal only. It needs to be modified for the tang drive oil pump. The later Ford six units have both centrifugal and vacuum. They also need the modification. I think from all the work that you and Richard did have convinced me that one of those be the best type to use.

[Ol' Ron]

Yes, that might help with the carburetor problems. I think just straight linkage would be the best for your project. At 17 mpg you're not far off. Good luck

[51PanelMan]

Great help so far, guys. So, should I not run the vacuum to the distributor at all or just for one carb? Would this Load-O-Matic be ok to use or should I really try to locate a Mallory Dual Point? They're no longer made and finding one used can be tough. I also agree that the air filters I have now are too restrictive.

Not sure if this matters, but I'm also running a Pertronix Ignitor in the distributor and a Pertronix coil. I'm still 6v pos ground.

Ken, would you happen to know what size jets should be in each carb?

41ford1, thank you for the picture. Do you have a K&N filter number for your set up? I like the look of them and would like to order them online or buy locally if I could.

[41ford1]

The two on my setup have #59 main jets. I am not running any vacuum advance at all. Runs well enough that I took it to Florida and back home. I too am running 6V + ground. No Pertronics though. I looked for a K&N number. Its either worn off or never marked.

[Ol' Ron]

I'd discuss this with Bubba, he might have a dist he can recomend.The load a matic is junk.

[51PanelMan]

Ron,

I'm not familiar with who Bubba is. Is he a member here or do you have any contact info for him?

I'll try to locate the filter through K&N website.

Thanks.

[Ol' Ron]

Bubba posts a dozen post a day. He runs an ignition service.

[51PanelMan]

I found Bubba and the post that I need about the distributor. Looks like I might have to get one made up. Just need to find a spare distributor to send to him. http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85865

[41ford1]

The issue with fitting a later distributor or the Mallory is the slot and tang drive on the stock oil pump. I found information that the pump from a '55 to '59 223" will fit the 215". That pump has a 1/4" hex drive. Pictures of both pumps look like it will work. The Mallory dual point for those years is a match for that pump. From what Ron and Richard in FL have posted. A distributor distributor with both mech and vac advance will give the best performance and economy. Ford realised that in the '70s. A points or a Dura-Spark could the easily be adapted since they have a hex drive. I am not sure if the drive on them is 1/4" or 5/15". Right now I am having hard time deciding to dive in to a decent runner.

[51PanelMan]

I'd prefer not to change the oil pump or anything else internally of the engine since I just got the engine rebuilt. I'd prefer to keep the correct oil pump. Bubba states that he can adapt one for a 223, so I'm assuming he can do the same for a 215. I'd prefer to have a Mallory over the stock Ford, but at this point, I'll take whatever as long as it'll work. It would be nice if I could use the Pertronix Ignitor in the "new" distributor so I don't feel like I wasted my money on buying the kit.

I think that once I get the carbs looked at again by someone who knows them intimitely and getting a new proper distributor, I should be on the road to success.

[41ford1]

Here are pictures of the linkage as mine is set up. These should help.

[51PanelMan]

Thank you for the pictures. I see that you have two small springs, one attached to the linkage and one at the carb. If it's not too much trouble, would it be possible for you to photograph those areas, including the other carb and post? I don't have those springs and would like to see if they'll add a benefit to my set up.

[BUBBAS IGNITION]

As per our phone conversation i can handle your ifgnition problem.

The carb sync tool that i use is found here

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Weber-Dellor...17058?pt=Motor

and is much easier to use and more accurate that the speedway sync tool mentioned above.

I have a six cylinder chevy engine on a test stand that i use to sync multiple carbs with this tool. Adjust each throttle opening to a set number so they are matched and then dont change the throttle setting unles both are changed .
I like some of the others dont think you can run those carbs progressive....

Glad to help

Jim at Bubbas

[41ford1]

These are pics of both carbs. Pardon the ugliness. I was more intent on getting this to run right instead of making it look pretty. You will notice the front choke is locked open. It cold starts well with only the rear choke. There is a throttle spring on each carb and two on the linkage. This set up tends to stick if the short one between the connector bar and the stock link is not there.

Now my question. Who in San Jose is setting these up? The Courier I have comes from there.

[51PanelMan]

Thanks, Jim. The UPS driver just dropped off the package from Speedway with the Uni-Syn's. I'll try them first since I already have them.

[41ford1]

Bringing this back up and going technical. I decided to replace the LOM distributor with a unit for a '72 Ford 240"/300" six. The drive end of these is very similar to the '53 LOM. The benefit I was looking for is centifugal and vacuum advance systems. The '72 240"/300" units have them. If you are at a rebuild on a 215" replace the tang and slot oil pump with a 1/4" hex drive oil pump for the '55 thru '59 223" The conversion is much easier, only requires 1/4" to 5/16" hex shaft adaptor. If you are dealing with a built 215" that you don't want to open up, this is how it can be done.

Here are both units in stock configuration
LOM

240"/300"

Both gears are removed.
LOM

240"/300"

The next step is to cut the shaft of the 240"/300" unit to the same length as the LOM unit. Since I don't have milling machine an abrasive cut off wheel on a grinder did the job. I also used the same wheel to cut he slot in the end of the shortened shaft.

The bore on the drive gear must then be drilled out to 17/32". The drive gear was installed on reworked shaft. Drill a new 1/8" retainer pin hole for the gear lock. Job done.


Installed it today. Runs very good, much smoother. Huge difference under load and in cruise.

[51PanelMan]

Thank you for the photos with the springs. The shop that did the work is Campbell Ford Performance in Campbell, CA (San Jose). Bob is a great guy that was patient with me while we worked through the issues. He was also fair in his labor.

Thanks for the instructions. My motor is already built and has the oil pump correct for the 215 motor. Did you buy the 72 distributor new or used? From where? Still thinking about sending a spare distributor that I have to Bubba for the conversion.

I got my Panel back from the mechanic last Friday. He was able to adjust the carbs, after he added the hard stops. He also adjusted the linkage. He found that both carbs leak a little fuel and air from the rear (at the linkage connectors), but not too much. Eventually, both carbs will need attention. He disconnected the vacuum line at the LOM and was able to sync the carbs to run better. It now doesn't run at high RPMs as it did before. However, now the carbs stumble and hesitate when I push on the pedal lightly and slow.

Another thing is that the truck will start fine when cold, but after running and being warm/hot, when I go to start it again, it barely cranks over. It gets to the point of stopped cranking. The battery is fine and at or over 6.4 volts. Not sure if this has to do with the starter or starter solenoids going out, or with the timing related to the LOM. Perhaps it's the Pertronix ignitor that's inside the LOM???

[41ford1]

The distibutor is a rebuilt unit Cardone/OEM part #30-2610. The application I searched for was '72 F100 300". This unit looks to be for 68-72 240" & 300" sixes.
It was easier to do the conversion than I originally thought.

I agree that these carbs will give you a run.

Your hot start issue sounds like there is a bad connection to the starter. Double check all electrical connections, cables to the starterand all the grounds.

[51PanelMan]

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Found the distributor at AutoZone and Advance Auto Parts (cheapest - $60 w/o core).

I didn't have this hot start issue before. I have 1/0 welding cables made into all battery/starter/ground cables. The starter was removed when I had the engine rebuilt. I'll re-check all of the connections.

[51PanelMan]

Also, forgot to ask, will this later distributor work with my engine since it's still 6v positive ground? Does it matter to the internals (points, condenser, rotor, etc) what voltage and polarity the vehicle is? Are the points, condenser, rotor, and cap interchangeable between the LOM and the later distributor?

[41ford1]

Points ignition doesn't care whether 6 or 12 volt or pos or neg ground. Points, condenser and the cap are interchangeable. Only the rotor is different. You will need one for the later distributor.

[51PanelMan]

Seems the hot-start problem was found. It was a faulty starter solenoid. Started the truck today and let it run for about 10 minutes. Then tried starting it again and it wouldn't turn over or very, very slow turn. Touched the starter solenoid and the cables going to it and they were HOT! I had a metal case starter solenoid. Grabbed a plastic case starter solenoid (same as metal case) and installed it. The truck actually started better and faster. Ran it for about the same amount of time. Started it again after it warmed up and no problems. Solenoid and cables are also not as hot with the new replacement.

[Damifiknow]

How is it running with the dizzy modification? I want to put same set up on my 1960 223?

[41ford1]

Mine runs very well with the mod. The mod for yours wil be easier. I think the hex drive is the same size for 60 up. You might be able to drop the new one it with no changes.

[Damifiknow]

Originally Posted by 41ford1

Mine runs very well with the mod. The mod for yours wil be easier. I think the hex drive is the same size for 60 up. You might be able to drop the new one it with no changes.

This might sound stupid but what else did you need besides the Cardone dizzy?

[41ford1]

Nothing. Just make sure you get a unit that has the cap and rotor.

[Damifiknow]

68-72 f100 with a 240/300 right?

[41ford1]

That worked for me.

[Damifiknow]

Where did you start with your carb setting?

[41ford1]

Disconnect the linkage between the carbs. Be sure each carb has a spring that pulls the throttle to the idle stops. Start with the idle mixture screws about 11/2 turns out. Set the idle stops on both carbs so there is a 1/16" gap between the throttle plate and the throttle body bore. That should get it running at an idle. You will then need to make small adjustments to the idle stops to get the speed where it needs to be. A carb sync tool will be a real help with this. I used an IR temp gun to measure header runner temps. The idea came from aircraft EGT indicators. Once the temps were matched on all the runners it runs quite smooth. With out a sync tool it will take some playing with. Good luck.

[Damifiknow]

What jets do you have in your carbs?

[41ford1]

#62s in both. Those were in them. Never tried any other sizes.

[Damifiknow]

Runs good?

[41ford1]

Ran well enough to go to 2 Barners bashes in FL.

[Damifiknow]

Where do you have timing set? I'm 6 degrees before tdc and when I hit gas quickly it stumbles before it really goes. I got 59s in it and plugs look good. Accelerator pumps on both carbs are also working good. Tuned with a carb syncro and both same air flow Ideas?

[41ford1]

Mine likes a fair amount of advance. Try 10 to 12 degrees and see how it responds.

[Damifiknow]

Thanks I'll try a little more advance and it you know how it goes.

[Damifiknow]

Advance didnt help. Put 55 jets in it and now seems like its starving. Thought it could be bad vac advance but i can see it move when I accelerate the throttle.

[41ford1]

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Try running without the vac advance. The Load O Matic will not work well with multi carbs. If you did fit a later dizzy with mech and vac try running just the mech.

[Damifiknow]

dizzy for 83 F100 electronic with vac advance and it seems to be working fine.

[41ford1]

If that '83 dizzy is vac only it may act the same as a LOM. Try it with the vac disconnected to get you static timing in the sweet spot. Mine likes 12 deg BTC. I stayed with points because they are easier to fix on road trips an the car is still 6v + ground. If yours seems like its starving with 55 jets go back to the 59s. Just tweak one thing at a time. You will get it where you like it.

[Damifiknow]

Figured it out. Rear accelerator pump nozzle was only dribbling gas when i hit the pedal. Cleaned it out and Viola. Works great. Now I need to reset timing and all should be good. I'm gonna try about 8 BTDC and see how it works. Thanks for the help.

[41ford1]

You are welcome. Happy motoring!