Best cooling fan for best cooling?

[Roxo]

Thanks AL
I added words like dust pan and splash pan, nothing came up. DA! Engine pan worked Thanks
The KISS effect
Keep it simple stupid!!

[Dick Steinkamp]

Our vendors sell a 6 blade plastic fan. I would think they would move the most air and be the safest...of course they are also the ugliest.



https://modelastore.com/index.php?ro...roduct_id=3842

[Roxo]

I have not yet got to road test my truck do to work thats was needed and title and plates, then the cold weather here.
I'm going with the 2 blade Aluminum repro and the Engine pans and hope for the best. I have flushed the radiator as clean as I could. Ran a wire down what tubes I could to open them up. Not sure what the rest are like after major flushing.

Crossing my fingers and hoping for the best.

[Roxo]

Thanks Guys for the advice and info.
I'm going with the 2 blade Aluminium reproduction fan with the engine pans. Flushed the radiator and cleaned out the tubes I could get to through the fill hole. I will cross my fingers and hope for the best.
Right now I got a box full of brake parts in the mail. Look out........

Roxo

[Purdy Swoft]

I've read that the engine pans give 15% better cooling . I use them and mine runs cool .

[Purdy Swoft]

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Originally Posted by Chuck Sea/Tac

The air tests were in the model A times.

Thanks Chuck !!! I've got those also . I knew That I had read it somewhere .

[Purdy Swoft]

shortening the blade length reduces the draw but doesn't eat up as much horsepower . As Joe K said , we only need a fan when idling or at speeds less than 20 MPH . I bought a nearly new 29 radiator from a friend .The upper hose neck was slanting downward at an angle that caused the tip of the fan blade to strike the upper under side of the upper hose . The problem was a builder defect and it was out of warranty . I measured and marked the ends of one of my repro aluminum fans and cut about an inch from each end . I rebalanced the fan and it gives the needed clearance . Nobody has noticed the two inch length difference . I figured that being as it was modified I would paint it red and make a purty out of it .

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by Roxo

I'm glad to hear about the Four blade fans. I was strongly considering them at one point.
Does anyone know what they call the engine lower side pans?

Engine Pan

[wensum]

Originally Posted by Joe K

Those who know engines know that above 20 mph, a fan is unnecessary: motion of the car through the air puts through MORE air than even a revving motor fan can pull.

However, for those moments standing at a light waiting for green, and for the acceleration to "air speed" the fan is essential. If you boil over, it typically occurs between zero and 20mph.

Above 20, the additional blades of a 4 or beyond fan serve only as greater impediment for the air passing. More blades equals more impediment.

(In more modern cars the fan is made "thermostatic" - you hear it come on as your stopped and you don't hear it but it turns off as the cooling needs are met by motion alone. A VW diesel of my experience the fan would run rarely if ever, the advantage of diesel thermodynamic efficiency. Additionally the fan not running continuously improves one's gas mileage.)

There may be cases where a four blade fan is to advantage. Industrial motors (mostly stationary or low speed) is where they cometh originally - and for a reason.

But for the Model A in automobile mode, 2 blade fan in the original aerodynamic form is best - and as it turns out for the aluminum fan repops - the safest.

Joe K

Interesting observations; I have an electric fan with manual control and a fast touring motor. The only time I need to switch the fan on is in stop/start traffic and if on a very long steep hill in a lower gear. Otherwise the motor rarely gets up to temperature, but then it also has an aluminium radiator. So far I've had little success with thermostats, but I do have one installed in the top hose with its guts removed as a restrictor. The current 30 degree temperatures appear to have little impact on the cooling.
Mind you, many years ago when I had a stock standard '29 Phaeton it boiled almost continuously when driving with a strong tail wind in the South Island with no apparent ill effects on the motor?

[Roxo]

This is all good information.
I went out and started my truck allowing it to run for 25 to 30 minutes. Garage was 60 degrees fahrenheit when I opened the doors and 35 degrees outside. The last ten minutes the engine temp seemed to settle around 150 degrees by my gauge. Most of the time it ran at idle speed after 5 minutes of warm up. That leads me to believe I got the radiator flushed out pretty good considering under similar conditions it was running around 185 to 190 degrees.
But I have rechecked my timing and made adjustments and have since learned more about setting the lever for better timing while running. Oh and fixed my gav that was too hard to turn by hand so I never knew how that was set, rich or lean. I think it was running rich.

[woofa.express]

I had a cooling problem in both my tourer and ute. In the tourer I installed a Toyota Corolla fan. Still running too hot. I purchased a new adapted plastic fan and shroud from Snyders, still too hot and the fan was a copy of that Toyota fan. Had radiators rodded and cleaned, better but still hot. Then I purchased new radiators for both. No more problems. Wish I had done this right from the start.

[Chris Haynes]

On a Hot 4th of July day my Ford four blade fan kept my 1930 Tudor cool in the stop and go, slow moving parade. I do have a fan shroud.

[Joe K]

Mind you, many years ago when I had a stock standard '29 Phaeton it boiled almost continuously when driving with a strong tail wind in the South Island with no apparent ill effects on the motor?

The Model A is only one developmental step ahead of the Model T - which was a car of "thermosyphon" cooling (no water pump) The Model T more akin to the one-lunger engines which if water is kept boiling in the hopper, keeps perking along.

A Model A engine used on a shore-side hoist of my experience had only a 32 gallon garbage can as radiator. As the water heated, it eventually boiled and was added to periodically through the summer. And quickly drained in the winter.

One of the critiques of the standard Model A cooling system is that - when new - it has the capability to "sub-cool" the engine which presents a challenge thermodynamic. The engine does not get optimal gas mileage for being "too cold." Which is why modern engines operate in the 215-240 range and are pressurized (to prevent boiling) and get closer to that "thermodynamic sweet spot."

Some have pressurized the Model A cooling to get past the shortcoming.

Boiling is NOT a problem for the engine. Only for the windshield, forward facing brightwork and paint job, and general appearance. And the operator who has to carry extra water to make up for loss lest it boil dry.


Joe K

[30 Closed Cab PU]

If you continue to have cooling problems, if the radiator has a 2 row core, have it re-cored with a 3 row core, or replace the radiator. 2 row cores (unless a Brassworks radiator - OK) are notorious for overheating. If only flushing, try backflushing radiator and motor separately. Also recommend an upper radiator hose coolant filter.

[Roxo]

At this time I have not been able to get my truck out to test the cooling system out on the road. My wish is to make this truck a good daily driver. Before I spend money to replace the original fan blade, I thought it would be best to hear from those who have experienced overheating and what worked for them.
My radiator appears to be a 3 row core, not sure if that's consistent with the original radiators. I have not yet back flushed the engine or radiator. The first draining of the radiator was muddy telling me it has not been flushed in years. I then run Vinegar and radiator flushing fluids thru the radiator many times over again until it ran clean of all dirt and rust. I'm sure it could use a good back flushing.
I plan to install the engine pans, I don't know what a upper radiator hose coolant filter is?
Still undecided of the fan. I guess until I get it on the road and see what I got I will go with the repo 2 blade for now and see what I got and go from there.

[WHN]

Google Rocky Mountain Model A Club Cooling System Presentation 2012.

I have mentioned this presentation many times when Cooling System questions come up.

I would like to add that boiling is a problem. Boiling water will not remove a running engines heat and could create HOT SPOTS in block, and OIL FLASH on cylinder walls.

A modern cars water pump is normally mounted before coolant enters the engine, thus pushing/forcing the coolant into block. Also a modern cars water pump pumps about 100 gpm, not the 36 to 38 gpm that the Model A’s thermal syphon system does.

I would highly not recommend driving either a Model T or Model A that is boiling over. They are designed to run in the 160 to 170 temperature range.

We get about 18 to 20 miles to the gallon of gas in our 1929 driving around town. No thermostat, but new correct radiator, two blade aluminum fan, leakless water pump, and engine side pans. In almost 40 years I have never had it boil over.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Originally Posted by Roxo

At this time I have not been able to get my truck out to test the cooling system out on the road. My wish is to make this truck a good daily driver. Before I spend money to replace the original fan blade, I thought it would be best to hear from those who have experienced overheating and what worked for them.
My radiator appears to be a 3 row core, not sure if that's consistent with the original radiators. I have not yet back flushed the engine or radiator. The first draining of the radiator was muddy telling me it has not been flushed in years. I then run Vinegar and radiator flushing fluids thru the radiator many times over again until it ran clean of all dirt and rust. I'm sure it could use a good back flushing.
I plan to install the engine pans, I don't know what a upper radiator hose coolant filter is?
Still undecided of the fan. I guess until I get it on the road and see what I got I will go with the repo 2 blade for now and see what I got and go from there.

I had have/had cooling problems since I got my A running in 2011. Did the vinegar treatment many times including running my A for multiple hours with the vinegar in the A. Did thermocure 3 times, flushed/back flushed dozens of times. All this helped but overheats at 40 mph and more on 85 degree days and above. Also over heats on summer days at parade speeds. That is when the Barn helped me figure out I had the 2 row core radiator, having a Bergs 3 row swapped in and will find out this summer if it is fixed.


Highly recommend installing a upper hose radiator coolant filter so that any thing that loosens up does not plug up your radiator. It is an added inline filter in the upper coolant hose. There are many different filters/methods to do this. Some as simple as adding woman's panty hose at the radiator inlet, or something purchased like the GANO filter.
Here are some previous strings, if you want more info search on coolant filters, lots of info.
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...coolant+filter


https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...coolant+filter


https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...coolant+filter


When using Vinegar, if you run the motor with the original style water pump be prepared for leakage out the Water pump nut, vinegar will flush out the grease and you will loose the sealing of the packing lead/grease. Creates a mess. If you have a leakless no problem.


Since you did the vinegar you must do a flush of Baking Soda/water as a final step to neutralize the acidic content of the vinegar , leave the mixture in for a while and flush backflush thoroughly. The remnants of the vinegar will continue to eat away at the internal of the radiator and motor if not neutralized.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

You also mentioned it looked "muddy". If dirty oily/greasy type color you may have grease in the radiator from previous owners over greasing the Water Pump. The grease works it way into the coolant and balls up blocking the tubes in the radiator. Detergent like Dawn, or Arm and Hammer "Washing" soda (not baking soda) is mixed and run in the motor to help flush grease/oil. Usually this is done before Vinegar and other methods, since the other methods are not great at removing grease/oil. Then flush/back flush. Again, do a search and you can find more info.


Do a search on Water Pump lube/grease to find proper methods for the Water Pump

[Roxo]

WHN mentioned the (Rocky Mountain Model A Club Cooling System Presentation 2012). That is very informative, I recommend checking that out, Just Google it.
I did run the engine with baking soda after the Vinegar treatment. I did read that in another thread.
I drained the radiator in a clean pan and checked for any sign of gas or grease, found none. This was just dirt. Let some drain in a small jar also, when it settled it was dirt. When the weather gets warm enough I will backflush the system and add a upper hose filter. I do have rust still breaking loose.
I was also suspecting a crack in the head because of a fine line in the paint by number 2 plug. After flushing with vinegar and letting it run until full operating temp I let it sit all night, ran it again till operating temp. Then discovered 2 water drops over the suspected crack. Now it shows as a fine rust line, So now I know for sure the head is cracked in that area. No sign it is leaking into the cylinder. I ran some sealer for heads and block, It sealed right up for now. Planning to replace the head before spring.

Your right the water pump started leaking too, the sealer stopped that also ( for now ). A new leakless pump is on my list.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

You may already know the following. Make sure you properly oil/lube the generator and distributor.


If you have the original style distributor with out the drilled distributor shaft a cam nut for lubing the upper distributor bushing, you fill the tube/oil cup to full with oil so the oil can work its way up to the upper bushing.






The generator has 2 places to add a few drops of oil, One over by the Pulley, and a very small metal flap that is moved to access an oiling hole.




I was not aware of either of all this, and both the distributer and generator had to be rebuilt due to my ignorance.
Do these at a minimum of every 500 mile oil change, along with lubing the distributor cam with cam grease off Vaseline.