Who makes/sells the best adjustable tappets?

[jeepguy1948]

Is one better than another?

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Colony

[Bob Bidonde]

In my opinion, the double nut adjustable tappets are the best because they hold their adjustment better than the single nut tappets.

[Colonial coupe]

Who sells the colony lifters.
Thanks

[Will N]

I found a set of colony brand lifters on ebay, and the specs mentioned that the base is 1". Do they come in any other widths? I ask because I read that you need to keep away from any lifter with a 1" or narrower base because it is incompatible with the model a and b cams. The Stipe cam website has a chart that shows that the orig model a cam requires a 1.117" base, and the model B cam requires a 1.187 base. There's a warning on the site: Only use the 1.117 inch (or larger) base diameter tappets with any Model A or B camshaft.
The inferior ~1.000 inch (or less) undersize base diameter (jam-nut) tappets on the market should never be used with any Stipe camshaft or original Model B camshaft.
The use of those too-small 1.000 inch tappets can result in severe damage to both themselves and the camshaft lobes.

http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/stipecamshaftspecs.htm

[alexiskai]

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Per Steve Becker, these are Colony lifters and the ones he prefers for engine rebuilding:
https://modelastore.com/index.php?ro...roduct_id=3593

Doesn't say what the width is, but you could call them and ask.

The website mentions that these are "interference fit," this is a term for Class 5 thread fit. The internal and external threads slightly overlap, so they deform and "lock" in place when you set them. This thread fit is used in applications where the joint is expected to be set once and then left alone permanently. Sort of like nylon locking nuts, but in steel.

[Russ/40]

Originally Posted by alexiskai

Per Steve Becker, these are Colony lifters and the ones he prefers for engine rebuilding:
[url]https://modelastore.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=3593[/url

Just yesterday I tore down a very old rebuild. Pulled the lifters, and they are Ford stamped. They are identical to the "Colony" now sold in foot size. Cant go wrong with the Colony.

[Russ/40]

Originally Posted by Colonial coupe

Who sells the colony lifters.
Thanks

Snyders, and others..

[wrndln]

I installed a set of double lock tappets thinking they would hold better and regretted it. They were very hard to adjust, as the lower nut was hard to get a wrench on (even a thin tappet wrench). I switched to the single lock type, which were easy to adjust.
Rusty Nelson

[Russ/40]

Rusty, I think the double nut ones have a slightly smaller foot. Risky I guess with some cams.

[quickchange]

Single locks have larger foot, 50,s Mopar have the largest foot ,require reaming of the tunnel to fit , also come in oversize, got mine on flea bay few years ago nos, We do have a 490 lift so need real large foot,

[motordr]

When using the Mopar lifter, check for interference between the base and the bearing journal, as the base diameter is quite a bit larger than the B lifter.

[Pete]

As with any parts you put in an engine, you need to know what you are doing. DO NOT ASSUME ANYTHING! Most of all DO NOT solicit information from anyone other than the guy that ground the cam.

Most cam grinders will specify what lifters to use with their cams. They usually supply a kit. You should NOT mix parts if you are not sure.

The split jam double nut type lifters are best but must NOT be used on original or original grind cams.

Most after market performance grinds use a 1 inch diameter lifter but you must know what you have before assembly.

Someone asked if it was possible to grind an A or B cam with completely stock specs that could use a 1 inch diameter lifter so they could have the advantage of the double nut lifters.
Yes, it is possible. I don't know of anyone doing it though.

[Colonial coupe]

Originally Posted by Russ/40

Snyders, and others..

Thank you

[Manxnorton]

Originally Posted by Pete

As with any parts you put in an engine, you need to know what you are doing. DO NOT ASSUME ANYTHING! Most of all DO NOT solicit information from anyone other than the guy that ground the cam.

Most cam grinders will specify what lifters to use with their cams. They usually supply a kit. You should NOT mix parts if you are not sure.

The split jam double nut type lifters are best but must NOT be used on original or original grind cams.

Most after market performance grinds use a 1 inch diameter lifter but you must know what you have before assembly.

Someone asked if it was possible to grind an A or B cam with completely stock specs that could use a 1 inch diameter lifter so they could have the advantage of the double nut lifters.
Yes, it is possible. I don't know of anyone doing it though.

I have a problem with new valves and tappets I am just trying to install.

I have purchased a complete kit of modern style valves, guides, retainers, keepers and springs (# M6505KIT at Mike’s Afordable). With the description of the kit “no modifications required” is mentioned.

Furthermore I have purchased a set of adjustable tappets (#A6500DN at Mike’s Afordable). The photo shown with the description shows that these are Conoly tappets. But they did not come with Conoly packaging. I guess these are the split jam double nut style tappets. With the description nothing was mentioned regarding required modifications.


Here are some dimensions:
Base diameter: 28.65 mm = 1.1“
Tappet length: 62.97 mm = 2.5“ (when screwed all the way down)
Valve length: 145.7 mm = 5.7“
Please refer to the attached photos for details.

The problem is, that the valves do not shut 100 % when I install everything with the tappets screwed together all the way down and the cam facing downwards. The valves stay approx. 1 mm (0.04”) open.

That means something is at least 0.04” too long. As the whole assembly should be adjustable, some additional room for the adjustment is required. That means actually something is about 0.1” too long.

Did somebody experience this kind of problem? According to the thread quoted split jam double nut style lifters must not be used with original camshafts.

That means my camshaft needs to be ground?

Another option might be to shorten the valves by 0.1”. Actually there is not much more room for shortening.

Are there further options? Which kind of adjustable tappets can be used without modifications?

Thank you very much for your support.

[Terry Burtz, Calif]

The upper surface of your cylinder block may have been machined excessively.

The distance between the top and the bottom of the cylinder block should be 11.505/11.500 inches.

[rotorwrench]

Too short a deck as above or valves too deep in the pockets due to wear or too much grinding without replacing seats. A tenth is a lot. Grinding the cam may help but dimensions need to be checked. It may need work on several places to get it usable.

[nkaminar]

Best is subjective. One person's best is not another person's best. And Pete is right that it depends on the cam and what the person who made the cam recommends.

I bought the single lock tappets from Snyders, link below, and are very happy with them. I also got new springs, modern valves, etc. from them. Everything fit perfectly into my Burtz engine. I am using the Burtz cam. I set the clearance according to Terry's instructions. The bosses for the tappets were not machined so I had to do the "rule by 9" method but I cheated and adjusted one tappet while measuring the opposite and went back and forth, reducing the time in half. (Measure 1 while adjusting 8, then adjust 1 while measuring 8, etc.) Diameter is 1.110.

https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/p...htm?pid=978796

[Manxnorton]

Thank you very much for your comments.


My engine ran absoltely smoothly with the old valves and tappets. The reason I took everything apart was a broken crankshaft. During that occasion I found clearance between valves and guides and decided to replace the whole valves and tappets assembly.

I checked some of the details mentioned. Please see below.

[Manxnorton]

Originally Posted by Terry Burtz, Calif

The upper surface of your cylinder block may have been machined excessively.

The distance between the top and the bottom of the cylinder block should be 11.505/11.500 inches.

I checked this dimension and it is 11.50". There is nothing wrong.

[Manxnorton]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

Too short a deck as above or valves too deep in the pockets due to wear or too much grinding without replacing seats. A tenth is a lot. Grinding the cam may help but dimensions need to be checked. It may need work on several places to get it usable.

As everything ran smoothly in the past I guess that the valve seats cannot be bad. See photos. If I put in te valves without camshaft installed the valves sit 1 mm (0.04") above the surface. That looks ok for me. What do you think?

When I install the camshaft, tappets etc. the valves sit 0.08" above the surface.

How about the dimension of my tappets? Is 62.97 mm = 2.5“ length ok (when screwed all the way down)?

[Manxnorton]

Originally Posted by nkaminar

Best is subjective. One person's best is not another person's best. And Pete is right that it depends on the cam and what the person who made the cam recommends.

I bought the single lock tappets from Snyders, link below, and are very happy with them. I also got new springs, modern valves, etc. from them. Everything fit perfectly into my Burtz engine. I am using the Burtz cam. I set the clearance according to Terry's instructions. The bosses for the tappets were not machined so I had to do the "rule by 9" method but I cheated and adjusted one tappet while measuring the opposite and went back and forth, reducing the time in half. (Measure 1 while adjusting 8, then adjust 1 while measuring 8, etc.) Diameter is 1.110.

https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/p...htm?pid=978796

I took over the car from my father about one year ago. He had it since the 1990s. I never heard that something was done with the camshaft. I can only guess that it is in original condition. If you could provide me with dimension I could double-check.


Can you tell me the length of the Snyders tappets? If these are shorter than mine, this would definitively solve the issue.

[nkaminar]

I cannot tell you the length of the tappets without taking my engine back apart. However you can email Snyders and ask them. They are very responsive and helpful. Try [email protected] and if she cannot help she will forward your email to someone who can help. One problem may be that they are temporally out of stock so you may have to wait for an answer.

One other thing to measure is the length of the valves. Some modern valves are from a modern engine and cut down to fit the Model A. You may want to ask Snyders what the length of their valve are and compare that to what you have.

[Manxnorton]

Thank you once more for your support.

I realized already that the tappets are not available at Snyders. Same situation with other shops.

But I found somebody on Ebay (see attachment).
I have sent him a question concernig the lenght. They are made by Colony and I hope they fit...

[GRutter]

I would be suspicious of those tappets.
I have a set of Colony single lock tappets purchased from Snyders and I just measured. They appear to be 2.285 fully closed. (Disclaimer: I did not fully close - I measured the length of the tappet 2.255 + thickness of the bolt head .030)
What was the length of your old tappets for comparison with your new ones?

[GRutter]

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Originally Posted by Manxnorton

Thank you once more for your support.

I realized already that the tappets are not available at Snyders. Same situation with other shops.

But I found somebody on Ebay (see attachment).
I have sent him a question concernig the lenght. They are made by Colony and I hope they fit...

Those ebay tappets are 0.015 oversized

[Benson]

I have a set of self locking tappets I got from Berts a couple of years ago.


As I remember they were Colony but not for sure.


They are no longer in their packaging.


I can check with Steve on Tuesday as to whether they might be Colony tappets.


These measure 2.478 when "cranked" all the way down.


BTW the heel diameter is 1.122

[katy]

thickness of the bolt head .030

That's an awful thin bolt head, did you mean .300?

[Manxnorton]

Originally Posted by GRutter

I would be suspicious of those tappets.
I have a set of Colony single lock tappets purchased from Snyders and I just measured. They appear to be 2.285 fully closed. (Disclaimer: I did not fully close - I measured the length of the tappet 2.255 + thickness of the bolt head .030)
What was the length of your old tappets for comparison with your new ones?

Mine are 2.5" long.
If your bolt heads are actually 0.03" this leads to 2.285". That would be perfect.
But if your bolt heads should be 0.3" this leads to 2.555. That is even longer than mine.

[Manxnorton]

Originally Posted by Benson

I have a set of self locking tappets I got from Berts a couple of years ago.

As I remember they were Colony but not for sure.

They are no longer in their packaging.

I can check with Steve on Tuesday as to whether they might be Colony tappets.

These are same tappets used in Bert's rebuilt engines so I am 99 % sure they are Colony.

These measure 2.478 when "cranked" all the way down.

BTW the heel diameter is 1.122

This length is almost the same as mine. That does not help.

[Manxnorton]

Originally Posted by GRutter

Those ebay tappets are 0.015 oversized

Thank you for the hint. That might be the reason why those seem to be the only ones currently available.

[nkaminar]

On the engine I am currently working on the tappets are 2.42, valves are 5.92 and base circle diameter of the camshaft is 0.85. As one might expect the valves vary a bit. The tappets are not all the way down. The cam was reground and I was surprised to find that the base circle varies too. The whole stackup length is about 8.76. If you have the same diameter base circle your total stackup would be 8.64. So it comes down to what is the diameter of your cam base circle?

My tappets are most of the way down. I am decking the block and will have to re cut the valve seats and grind the valves so I may be in the same boat and have to regrind the valve stems a bit.

[rotorwrench]

It seems I remember that the valves from the early GM 305 V6 could be used in the model A but it's been a while so I can't back that up. I would compare all the old stack up parts to the new to see whats different. Most like the double lock Colony tappets. A lot of stuff has been out of stock lately.

[Dave in MN]

Originally Posted by Manxnorton

This length is almost the same as mine. That does not help.

I run into the same situation you are describing a few times each year. The very simple solution is to shorten the valve stems. Shorten them all to the minimum shortest length you need, in other words, don't shorten them more than you need to but keep them all the same length for ease of assembly.
Engine rebuilding shops will have the necessary equipment. The cut edge needs to be precise so don't try to grind them with your bench grinder.

I have a Sunnen machine in my shop....

Good Day!

[Manxnorton]

Originally Posted by nkaminar

On the engine I am currently working on the tappets are 2.42, valves are 5.92 and base circle diameter of the camshaft is 0.85. As one might expect the valves vary a bit. The tappets are not all the way down. The cam was reground and I was surprised to find that the base circle varies too. The whole stackup length is about 8.76. If you have the same diameter base circle your total stackup would be 8.64. So it comes down to what is the diameter of your cam base circle?

My tappets are most of the way down. I am decking the block and will have to re cut the valve seats and grind the valves so I may be in the same boat and have to regrind the valve stems a bit.

Thank you for all the information and calculations. I have checked the dimensions in my case:
Tappets: 2.48
Valves: 5.73
Base circle: 0.95
Total stackup: 8.69

As already mentioned there are about 0.08 to 0.1 which I need to gain. I think that is too much to grind it off the cams. Takes too much time and is too expensive.

I think for me the best option is to have ground 0.1 off the valve stems. You do not see a problem with shortening the valve stems? There is enough hardness 0.1" below the surface?

However, because of your information I see another option: Your tappets are not all the way down and they are 0.06 shorter than mine. With these tappets my issue would most likely be solved. Which tappet type are these?

[Manxnorton]

Originally Posted by Dave in MN

I run into the same situation you are describing a few times each year. The very simple solution is to shorten the valve stems. Shorten them all to the minimum shortest length you need, in other words, don't shorten them more than you need to but keep them all the same length for ease of assembly.
Engine rebuilding shops will have the necessary equipment. The cut edge needs to be precise so don't try to grind them with your bench grinder.

I have a Sunnen machine in my shop....

Good Day!

Thank you. That is what I am most likely going to do.

[Manxnorton]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

It seems I remember that the valves from the early GM 305 V6 could be used in the model A but it's been a while so I can't back that up. I would compare all the old stack up parts to the new to see whats different. Most like the double lock Colony tappets. A lot of stuff has been out of stock lately.

I did this comparison. The new valves are a bit longer than the old ones. That means no chance to install them without modification.

Same with the tappets: Screwed all the way down they are a bit longer than the old ones.

That finally means shortening the valve stems is the easiest way to solve the issue. Shorter tappets migth be nicer. But currently nothing seems to be available. And I would like to get my car back on the road asap.

[nkaminar]

All these parts came out of the engine I am rebuilding so I don't have any history or information on who make the parts. About a year ago I tried to contact the engine builder in California but got no response. It looks like the engine was rebuilt several years ago. I think your best bet is shortening the stems. I think I may have to do that too.

[rotorwrench]

Some folks indicate that the adjustable tappets of one type or another have difficulty in adjustment when the tappet is all the way down on the heel of the cam. Some have to turn the engine to get the tappet high enough out of the bore to be able to make an adjustment. It seems there is always a trade off when changing parts for a different design.

Special tools were used by rebuilders back in the day to be able to measure the needed valve stem dimension when using non adjustables. This way they could adjust the stem length once then reinstall the valve one time. The old tulip type valves and two piece guides were a PITA to adjust if a person didn't have those tools. I have a set for V8 types but not for the model A engine. I'd need a guide pilot to make mine work for an A or B engine.

[Chris Haynes]

Originally Posted by Manxnorton

I checked this dimension and it is 11.50". There is nothing wrong.

Could your valve seats been ground too deep?

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Dave in MN

I run into the same situation you are describing a few times each year. The very simple solution is to shorten the valve stems. Shorten them all to the minimum shortest length you need, in other words, don't shorten them more than you need to but keep them all the same length for ease of assembly.
Engine rebuilding shops will have the necessary equipment. The cut edge needs to be precise so don't try to grind them with your bench grinder.

I have a Sunnen machine in my shop....

Good Day!

This is very true since the valve must be supported in a conical taper on the aft end and supported near the head when it is trued in a valve grinder. If the valve stem is not correctly ground, this will cause the concentricity of the valve to be lost when the valve is installed into the guide.