Timing-Gear Noise?

[Admiral]

My car has always made this strange clucking noise at idle. I've been told it's the aluminum timing gear but I'd like some more opinions. There's a small amount of lifter tick as well but that doesn't bother me. What do you think this ruckus could be? I shot the following video of it the other day (do you like my homemade winter front? LOL).

https://youtu.be/KwS4kWjqMd0

The noise is most prevalent low at the front, but surprisingly, putting a stethoscope on the engine is inconclusive. You basically cannot hear that clucking sound when you listen to the heads, block, water pumps, distributor or even timing cover -- it's quiet. The only time you can really hear it is when you put the stethoscope to the bottom of the oil pan at the very front.

I don't like this noise it but I live with it. Other than this, it runs beautifully -- smooth, powerful, efficient -- plus the sound diminishes somewhat when the engine is nice and warmed up. For reference, it's a 59L bored 0.080" with otherwise stock internals. Any ideas what this could be? Should I be afraid it's going to blow up?

Thanks in advance!

[petehoovie]

See if it goes away with the belt removed. How long has this noise been going on? When did it start?

[Admiral]

Originally Posted by petehoovie

See if it goes away with the belt removed. How long has this noise been going on? When did it start?

It's been going on basically since we installed the engine. It's got 3,500 miles and change on it since it was totally rebuilt. I ran it without the belt about a year ago and it still made the noise. At the time some EFV8 club members told me it was just the timing gear, which I still believe (though I want more "second opinions," hence my post here), but it bugs me -- not because it's gotten any worse -- but because other flathead V8s don't make that noise.

[flatjack9]

I doubt that it is timing gears.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by Admiral

It's been going on basically since we installed the engine. It's got 3,500 miles and change on it since it was totally rebuilt. I ran it without the belt about a year ago and it still made the noise. At the time some EFV8 club members told me it was just the timing gear, which I still believe (though I want more "second opinions," hence my post here), but it bugs me -- not because it's gotten any worse -- but because other flathead V8s don't make that noise.

It bugs me as well. To me, that is a nasty sound. Sounds internal to the engine. I don't know how a timing gear would make that sound. Sounds do carry throughout the engine. I'd pull the intake manifold to see if it's a broken valve spring or if a spring keeper has come off....

[Admiral]

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Well, I just got back from the garage where I spent about 15 minutes poking around with the stethoscope again as the engine idled. The sound is either coming from the front of the engine or the oil pan but it's hard to tell. There is some lifter noise but that's a very regular tick-tick-tick, the sound I'm hearing is like a inconsistent clatter or something.

Not that it matters, but this rebuilt 8BA posted to YouTube seems to make similar sounds at idle, a sort of irregular knocking.

https://youtu.be/ruVu8cOdyS4?t=1m17s

All of this has me puzzled and concerned.

[Mac VP]

Perhaps a loose oil pump pickup tube?

[flatheadfan]

Admiral-

You haven't mentioned this but, if you have not done this, short out each plug with the engine running. If the sound goes away or becomes less odds are you are dealing with either a piston slap or rod problem. Slaps or rod problems can often mimic a tapping or clicking noise.

Unfortunately, been there, done that.

Tom

[Admiral]

Originally Posted by flatheadfan

Admiral-

You haven't mentioned this but, if you have not done this, short out each plug with the engine running. If the sound goes away or becomes less odds are you are dealing with either a piston slap or rod problem. Slaps or rod problems can often mimic a tapping or clicking noise.

Unfortunately, been there, done that.

Tom

Great suggestion, Flatheadfan. And actually, I forgot to mention in my previous post that that's what I did as well when I was out in the garage. I pulled each plug, one at a time, and it made no difference in the noise. I'm not sure if that's a good sign or not ...

[Mart]

I literally winced as you revved it up. It doesn't sound good. Did you see the thread with the over long distributor bolts?

I wish I could wave a magic wand and just say what the problem is, but it does need investigating.

Nice looking car and motor, by the way.

Mart.

[51 MERC-CT]

Possible exhaust leak?

[Admiral]

Has anyone heard a sound like this before?

If it were rod knock I'd expect it to be more of a hammering noise, but maybe full-floating bearings sound different or maybe the culprit hasn't failed that far yet? This is my first flathead.

This sound doesn't seem to be coming from the valvetrain ... I don't think.

What's the next course of action? If I'm going to drop the oil pan I may as well pull the entire engine, it's practically as much work, right?

How high does the front of the engine have to be lifted to get the oil pan off?

[Kerk]

Have you put a solid rod screw driver on the fuel pump and listen. Had a friend who had a clicking ticking noise & it was the fuel pump . Just a suggestion. kx

[outlaw]

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=193487 Have you checked this post yet?

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by Admiral

Has anyone heard a sound like this before?

If it were rod knock I'd expect it to be more of a hammering noise, but maybe full-floating bearings sound different or maybe the culprit hasn't failed that far yet? This is my first flathead.

This sound doesn't seem to be coming from the valvetrain ... I don't think.

What's the next course of action? If I'm going to drop the oil pan I may as well pull the entire engine, it's practically as much work, right?

How high does the front of the engine have to be lifted to get the oil pan off?

It sounds very similar to the sound the engine in my '37 made when a valve spring broke. It would be easier for you to pull the intake manifold and inspect the valve train than it would be to drop the pan. Who knows, you might luck out and not have to pull the engine....

[Admiral]

Originally Posted by Kerk

Have you put a solid rod screw driver on the fuel pump and listen. Had a friend who had a clicking ticking noise & it was the fuel pump . Just a suggestion. kx

I've listened extensively with the stethoscope and there's no noise coming from this area that I can tell.

Originally Posted by outlaw

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=193487 Have you checked this post yet?

Yes, I saw that post, but I'm pretty sure I don't have this issue. I pulled the timing cover about a year ago and everything looked kosher.

Originally Posted by petehoovie

It sounds very similar to the sound the engine in my '37 made when a valve spring broke. It would be easier for you to pull the intake manifold and inspect the valve train than it would be to drop the pan. Who knows, you might luck out and not have to pull the engine....

This is what I plan on doing tomorrow. Who knows, maybe I will get lucky, but my gut feel is that's not going to happen.

[Admiral]

Well, I finally got around to pulling the intake manifold today and I think I found the source of the mysterious clattering noise I've been dealing with. Notice anything strange?



It turns out the tube that runs down the center of the breather pipe divorced itself from the baffles that are supposed to hold it in place. It was clattering around on the umbrella portion of the fuel-pump push rod, wearing a groove in it. Have any of you guys seen this before? I cleaned everything up and tack welded both ends of the tube to the breather pipe so it won't do this again.

In any event, I'm soooooo happy I don't have to pull the oil pan or engine . Thanks for all the suggestions; I would have never guessed this in a million years.

Not that it was a big issue, but while in there I also adjusted the valve lash so it runs even quieter now. A couple of the lifters had 0.017 or better clearance.

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by Admiral

Notice anything strange?

YES, the valve valley is clean!!!

[Admiral]

Originally Posted by JSeery

YES, the valve valley is clean!!!

It better be spotless; there are fewer than 4,000 miles on it since the rebuild!

[flatheadfan]

A broken push rod tube!!!! I have never, never ever heard of that but then again flatheads have a history of the "strange." As for the 0.017" gap, check the adjusting screw(s). Are they tight? You may be working with some worn or poorly made adjuster threads which will only give you a repeat performance unless repaired (several simple ways to do it).

Tom