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Old 07-06-2017, 04:56 PM   #1
Gold Digger
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Default 60 miles per hour all day long

I've read where Ford made the claim that a new model A stock from the factory could run 60 mph all day with out damaging the engine. Has anyone ever done this with a stock engine and drivetrain? None I have ever owned would this. I've had some real good Model A's but I would never try that in one. I had a good 49 Chevy once and it give up on me after about 10 minutes at 60 mph. I went back to flat-head v8's.
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Old 07-06-2017, 05:18 PM   #2
Kevin in NJ
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Default Re: 60 miles per hour all day long

Yes, You can read about people doing exactly that back when the cars were new. Actually there are stories where the car was run closer to 70 for extended periods of time doing oil tests.

When the engine is properly balanced to Ford specs (Think like you are building a race car engine) then it will purr right along at those speeds. My brothers coupe has been run like that since 1970. In 1986 the babbitt was redone because the shop did not pour it right (that shop had a lot of failures). Currently his car lost 5 MPH on the top end when a rod went bad and the one he slipped in was off in weight. He also gained vibration.

Of course, the whole car needs to be returned to factory specs to be able to run comfortably at those speeds. Doing this takes knowledge, skills special tooling and money and it is not easy gaining all those things, well it was not so easy in the pre-internet days of 1970. My brother was 15 years old when he put his car together.

Keep in mind the 50's cars were underpowered. I remember once we drove with a club to DE and going over the bridge we passed the 50's cars with ease. They all asked us to slow down cause we were going to fast (the speed limit).
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Old 07-06-2017, 05:22 PM   #3
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Default Re: 60 miles per hour all day long

Back in the day did they even have the roads that you can do 60 mph on.
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Old 07-06-2017, 05:22 PM   #4
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Default Re: 60 miles per hour all day long

Interesting reply, Kevin. Which begs this question: which of the engine rebuilders in our hobby do so to Ford's specs?
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Old 07-06-2017, 06:13 PM   #5
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Default Re: 60 miles per hour all day long

I have a couple of engines balanced to finer tolerances than Ford used and they have a counterbalanced crank as well. I'd never even think of trying to sit on 60 mph all day long in either of them without the O/D. If nothing else, the centre main bearing won't hold up. I've heard these claims before and I've copped some flack for saying what I just have but experience speaks loudest.
When I'm looking at a Model A with the view to buying it, I ask "At what speed do you cruise?" Anything over 50 and I walk away immediately. 45 - 50, I look REAL CLOSE at the engine, especially the bearings. Haven't bought a dud yet!
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Old 07-06-2017, 06:14 PM   #6
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Default Re: 60 miles per hour all day long

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Wouldn't it be nice to have every part of your Model A New....not re-built, not refurbished, but new, to new specifications.......and all at the same time!
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Old 07-06-2017, 06:18 PM   #7
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Default Re: 60 miles per hour all day long

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilotdave View Post
Interesting reply, Kevin. Which begs this question: which of the engine rebuilders in our hobby do so to Ford's specs?
We do. We statically balance everything except the crank and the flywheel assy. Dynamically on those. Quite honestly, I suspect all of the major rebuilders do it too. Folks need to realize that most reputable rebuilders will do exactly what you ask them to do. The issue is many customers do not want to pay the additional price for the upgrades such as balancing. I think things have changed in the rebuilding world too. I cannot remember when the last time we rebuilt just a short-block for a customer. Most want a 'long-block plus' these days.



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Wouldn't it be nice to have every part of your Model A New....not re-built, not refurbished, but new, to new specifications.......and all at the same time!
Yep, and it describes Marco's Roadster pretty much!!

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Old 07-06-2017, 06:29 PM   #8
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Default Re: 60 miles per hour all day long

According to the speedo on my 31 tudor, I CAN do 60 all day. Of course the speedo is a liar. It reads much faster then the reality. #FAKESPEED. Lol Jeff
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Old 07-06-2017, 06:40 PM   #9
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Default Re: 60 miles per hour all day long

Ford had a sales gimmick of the day. The sales folks would take a customer on a good paved road and show them that the car would go that fast, but, not do it for very long.

The roads of the day would not allow that and the car was built for the roads of the day.

A properly restored car may be able to run 60 mph for an extended period today, but, at the every least, thats over driving the brakes as far as I'm concerned. JMO
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Old 07-06-2017, 06:52 PM   #10
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Default Re: 60 miles per hour all day long

We take really good care of our cars. If something needs to be done, it gets taken care of without trying to do it on the cheap.

35 to 45 miles per hour. My point of view is the sweet spot. 50 plus, well in high school many years ago it was (mine is bigger than yours). Who cares.
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Old 07-06-2017, 07:01 PM   #11
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Default Re: 60 miles per hour all day long

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Originally Posted by Patrick L. View Post
Ford had a sales gimmick of the day. The sales folks would take a customer on a good paved road and show them that the car would go that fast, but, not do it for very long.

The roads of the day would not allow that and the car was built for the roads of the day.

A properly restored car may be able to run 60 mph for an extended period today, but, at the every least, thats over driving the brakes as far as I'm concerned. JMO
It was not a gimmick.

Marco Tahtaras, who no long posts, has his roadster built back to factory. He will drive it anywhere at highway speeds. I believe he even has done a hill climb. This on a car that is only ever a couple of points from perfect JS correct. I know he has nothing special in the engine, though I believe he has a B cam and the original higher compression head.

You can choose not to believe all you want. There are quite a number of A guys with very stock A's that are running 60 MPH all the time for thousands of miles.

Oh and YES they ran 60 MPH on the crappy dirt roads of the day all the time. Or as fast as they could depending on how wash board the surface was that day. Go read the Legendary Model A Ford book. The A magazines have reprinted article throughout the years from period magazines detailing the people racing coast to coast and such in their A's

Yes, the brakes do a great job stopping at speeds. We were on the belt way going around Chicago at 60-65 when a guy came down an on ramp and slowed down in front of us. I can tell you brakes done right stop the A quite well. Was kind of wishing for seat belts.

FWIW, my brothers speedo reads low by 5 MPH. We thought we were running 55 to 60 MPH. Was not till we ran it with a GPS a few years ago when we found it was reading 5 MPH low.
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Old 07-06-2017, 08:18 PM   #12
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Default Re: 60 miles per hour all day long

My 30 sport coupe will hold 60 mph but it has an overdrive. (cheating). I would not try 60 without o.d. I had a 49 stock chevy as my D.D. that did 60 all day for years.
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Old 07-06-2017, 08:31 PM   #13
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Default Re: 60 miles per hour all day long

Quote:
We do. We statically balance everything except the crank and the flywheel assy. Dynamically on those. Quite honestly, I suspect all of the major rebuilders do it too. Folks need to realize that most reputable rebuilders will do exactly what you ask them to do. The issue is many customers do not want to pay the additional price for the upgrades such as balancing. I think things have changed in the rebuilding world too. I cannot remember when the last time we rebuilt just a short-block for a customer. Most want a 'long-block plus' these days.
That is good to hear. Having driven several Model A's whose engines are clearly NOT balanced, I will opt for doing so when the time comes that I need to replace an engine.
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Old 07-06-2017, 08:54 PM   #14
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Default Re: 60 miles per hour all day long

Mine might do 60 MPH all day long..........but I want my Model A to last longer than a day.
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Old 07-06-2017, 09:05 PM   #15
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Default Re: 60 miles per hour all day long

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin in NJ View Post
....
Marco Tahtaras, who no long posts, has his roadster built back to factory. He will drive it anywhere at highway speeds. I believe he even has done a hill climb. This on a car that is only ever a couple of points from perfect JS correct. I know he has nothing special in the engine, though I believe he has a B cam and the original higher compression head.

.....

A few years ago, I had the pleasure of extensively photographing, and riding in Marco Tahtaras' roadster. Here's a video of a short part of the ride- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMOeS9mGjsg

What Kevin and Brent have told you is true- Marco's Model A roadster is built as exact to factory specs as one could possibly do, using all original parts (right down to the tooling marks on the frame). I can also tell you first hand, that car is fully capable of going 60 MPH. The steering, braking, and smoothness of Marco's roadster set the bar very high for restorers. Almost none ever achieve the fit and feel of an original Model A, let alone the tightness and performance of Marco's roadster.

I own an unrestored Model A fordor, and can tell you that it is also capable of 60 MPH all day. I won't do it, just because it is a preservation car, but it could if the zombie apocalypse happened and we needed it for a getaway car.
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Old 07-06-2017, 09:15 PM   #16
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Default Re: 60 miles per hour all day long

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Mine might do 60 MPH all day long..........but I want my Model A to last longer than a day.
My brothers has 47 years on it. Even at that the babbitt mains needed redone (in 1986)cause the shop did bad work not because it was run 60. The crank, rods and such were not properly balanced either, but the engine only had 40,000 miles on it so not much was needed in the first place.

Keep in mind just because the car can run the 60 MPH all day (and yes has been run a lot at that speed) does not mean it is run that way. To be honest the biggest advantage to a well restored engine is the absolute reliability. The car always goes. The major problem was always just the condensers going bad and the burn out proof A&L units fixed that. It is still using the same points that came with the car in 1970 and it just goes.
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Old 07-06-2017, 09:17 PM   #17
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Default Re: 60 miles per hour all day long

In 1963 my buddy and I drove a 1930 Phaeton around Australia, covering 10000 miles in 3 months and many days we averaged 450 miles at speeds around 60 mph on a motor that I bought from a wreaking yard and had rebuilt. Pictures taken in Melbourne by the newspaper are now in the National Archives in Canberra. Plate No. DCY662 . Most of the roads at that time were gravel ,dirt and some paved. Regards Grant
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Old 07-06-2017, 10:51 PM   #18
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Default Re: 60 miles per hour all day long

The engine I installed over the winter is starting, running, and pulling great. Virtually leaking no oil. Couldn't be happier... except for the vibration levels. Much worse that with my old engine. I have a new Mitchel syncro tranny that needs to be installed, so I've been planning to pull the engine again and then having the flywheel and pressure-plate balanced as an assembly. What's the chance this is going to help my situation? I did go back to original style motor mounts because my old FAM mounts were cracking. There is a vibration that occurs just above idle, probably 700 rpm, that is pretty significant and you feel it in the pedals and steering wheel. While you are shifting and the engine is slowing back down for the next gear, is has pretty bad vibes too. It has sweet spots at 35, and at 40 mph, nice and smooth. Accelerating further brings more and more vibes. With the Brumfield HC head it's making 95 PSI in each cylinder, when you are accelerating after shifting to third, each of those more powerful power strokes seem to be transferred directly to the frame! Is that inherent to engines with HC heads?
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Old 07-06-2017, 11:10 PM   #19
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Default Re: 60 miles per hour all day long

If Model A owners today would obtain true statistical information on car travel and highway road conditions in the 1920's and 1930's, as opposed to reading repeated, false Model A Forum highway condition assumptions, the facts would appear shocking to most.

One would find that large fuel powered earth moving equipment to knock down hills and fill valleys in hill country were so rare; hence, very steep roads occurred often in hills where one could very seldom see oncoming traffic on the other side of hills; curves were also extremely sharp and meant to be traveled on very slowly.

One would find that horse and mule drawn wagons traveling at about 3 mph were plentiful and could be found everywhere ..... unmarked railroad crossings at 60 mph could send heads through the chicken wired Model A tops.

One would find that the so very few dirt roads were full of deep ruts, gravel roads were even fewer, and short paved roads outside of cities were most difficult to find.

One would find that with distinct vehicle parking lights, people often times just stopped and parked at night in the middle of a travel lane to visit or go to a dance or wedding reception.

One would find that tire flats with tube tires were plentiful where cars were often parked in a travel lane to fix a flat tire because they could not afford a spare tire.

In my opinion, from what I heard from my Dad, (born in 1902), and other seniors who traveled back then, tons of volumes of documented facts could be written on why so very, very few Model A's in 1930, (and, in so few areas of the U.S.), were ever driven: "60 mph all day long."

Last edited by H. L. Chauvin; 07-06-2017 at 11:12 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 07-06-2017, 11:31 PM   #20
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Default Re: 60 miles per hour all day long

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Originally Posted by Gold Digger View Post
I've read where Ford made the claim that a new model A stock from the factory could run 60 mph all day without damaging the engine. Has anyone ever done this with a stock engine and drivetrain? None I have ever owned would this. I've had some real good Model A's but I would never try that in one. I had a good 49 Chevy once and it gives up on me after about 10 minutes at 60 mph. I went back to flathead v8's.
Is it that you never tried or it could not do it?

Just because an A can do those speeds does not mean you have to do those speeds. Drive the car where you are comfortable, at speeds you are comfortable driving, but do drive it.
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