New problem!

[Brewsterbuff]

Finally got my '34 Brewster Town Car back on the road. Today went about 10th of a mile, down a grade, and heard a horrendous crack. Got out and checked everything underneath, looked OK, still driveable. Went a couple more tenths and it locked up completely, slid both rear wheels about 25 feet, couldn't go forward or back. Played with the shifter and finally got it to go forward. Very slowly drove it back and put it in the shop. My first thinking was transmission, sliding gears not totally disengaging or sliding together? Then I wondered if maybe rear end? Both rear wheels locked at the same time and released at the same time. Now has a slight click in the drive line which wasn't there before. ANY IDEAS would be a big help! Thanks, Don

[alanwoodieman]

sounds like the spider gears locked up, you say played with shifter and finally got it to move forward--exactly how did you play with it? jack up rear wheels and try turning them, do they go in opposite directions or the same way. if the same way then definitely the rear end gears. with the rear off the ground and no load on the trans--try shifting thru the gears, if it will do this then the trans sounds ok. if that much lock-up was done in the trans-it would be completely shredded. we had a 2nd gear thrust washer break and it locked up trans when it went thru the gears

[Brewsterbuff]

Ran the shift lever through the gears several times and tried both forward and reverse. After several tries it moved in 1st gear. That is when I got it home. Will go out and jack it up and check the spider gears. THANKS

[Brewsterbuff]

It's been a long time since I worked on a rear end! Both wheels off the ground, turned the right wheel and left side doesn't move. I think the left should go the opposite direction, correct? Didn't try the gears yet. I think if the left was on the ground then it would turn the drive shaft, correct? Does the trans need to be in gear for both rear wheels to turn?

[rotorwrench]

Could be transmission or rear axle but you also have to consider the u-joint and the aft end of the drive shaft where it couples with the pinion. The pin can start coming out of the coupler or you could have a U-joint that is failing.

Lots of different possibilities. Hopefully it is one of the easier ones to fix.

[Brewsterbuff]

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Trans in gear, wheels turn in opposite directions. Running through the gears sounds like the thud is coming from the rear end, ? left side but can't tell for sure since I am in the drivers seat. Need a second set of ears! But, trans in neutral, rear turns freely by hand in both directions. Seems to me if I eliminate the trans, the rear would show a problem? Wish it had an open drive shaft and I could just disconnect the universal joint and check the trans. Maybe a good reason to start by pulling the rear and not the engine to get to the transmission. Either one is a PAIN!

[JM 35 Sedan]

Why not start by removing the transmission shifter top, six bolts, and lift that slowly, making sure the forks were positioned correctly in 1/R gear and 2/3 sliding collar. Then drain oil and check gears and see if any broken teeth are in bottom of case. If that all looks good drop the rear down as a unit and roll it out to dismantle.
This same type of failure occurred on my 35 fordor in Nov. 2015. I also suspected it was the transmission, but turned out to be the rear. What a mess it turned out to be inside that banjo. I drained the rear before removing and lots of pieces and parts came out through the drain hole with the oil. I can add some pics here later, but I can tell you it was not pretty. Everything inside the banjo was destroyed, as well as the banjo housing itself.

Edit: Some pictures of the rear failure, and my one and only garage helper....my beautiful all white cat.....Ol Blue Eyes

[Bob C]

Put trans in neutral with one rear tire on the ground and try to turn the other wheel.

Bob

[Brewsterbuff]

John, Thanks for your input. I have already started to remove the floorboards to access the shifter. My son-in-law is my excellent helper and will be here over the weekend. I will drain the rear by then and if pieces come out will start to loosen stuff to pull the rear. I used to do this a lot on Model As but never found it to be fun, however pulling engines isn't much fun either on the Brewster, a little more difficult than on a stock '34 Ford. Disturbing thing is I just had the radiator off 3 times to try to solve the overheating problem and had the engine out once, and 3 sets of heads, 3 different kinds of water pumps . NOW THIS. When I was 25 it was fun, not quite so much at 80.

[jimTN]

sounds like a tooth off second gear....I popped one in my 32 starting it in second going down hill. I think some bearings were bad also and allowed the gears to mesh loosely.

[oleschool36ford]

Had a similar experience 50 years ago in my 36 Ford. The u-joint capscrew came out and wedged between the u-joint and housing as I was taking off from a stop light-car came to a sliding stop. Put it in reverse and screw dislodged and drove it home. Took the driveshaft loose and found the capscrew out of place and a big gouge in the u-joint housing.

[40 Deluxe]

Get a slim magnet on a stick and fish around through the trans fill plug, then the rear axle fill plug. See what sticks.

[slowforty]

I had a screw from the ring gear come out and broke the driveshaft. Replaced the driveshaft and a few months later it happened again and broke the end of the pinion off. Did not know the ring gear bolts were out until the second event.Never made any noise until it stopped suddenly.

[Brewsterbuff]

Rear end is now partially apart, enough to know that is the problem. Many teeth missing from the ring gear so I am sure the pinion is also toast, plus whatever else is also gone. Coming apart this afternoon? Where is a good place to look for a new ring and pinion set? What would be the standard ratio for 1934 passenger car?

[Seth Swoboda]

Originally Posted by JM 35 Sedan

Why not start by removing the transmission shifter top, six bolts, and lift that slowly, making sure the forks were positioned correctly in 1/R gear and 2/3 sliding collar. Then drain oil and check gears and see if any broken teeth are in bottom of case. If that all looks good drop the rear down as a unit and roll it out to dismantle.
This same type of failure occurred on my 35 fordor in Nov. 2015. I also suspected it was the transmission, but turned out to be the rear. What a mess it turned out to be inside that banjo. I drained the rear before removing and lots of pieces and parts came out through the drain hole with the oil. I can add some pics here later, but I can tell you it was not pretty. Everything inside the banjo was destroyed, as well as the banjo housing itself.

Edit: Some pictures of the rear failure, and my one and only garage helper....my beautiful all white cat.....Ol Blue Eyes

JM, when you mentioned Ol' Blue Eyes I thought you were going into a story about the days when you and Sinatra were hanging out.

[mike in tucson]

Call Mac VanPelt, he probably has all the stuff in stock. http://www.vanpeltsales.com/index.htm

[34billct]

A ratio of 4.11 to 1 is most likely stock and the easyest to find.

[JM 35 Sedan]

Originally Posted by Seth Swoboda

JM, when you mentioned Ol' Blue Eyes I thought you were going into a story about the days when you and Sinatra were hanging out.

Yeah Seth, LOL, I'm almost old enough to be a member of "The Rat Pack", or in my case maybe that should be "The Pack Rats"

[rockfla]

I'd go for 3:54 gears myself, we are running them in a "stock" 32 with no problems and the engine rev's are mush lower at highway speeds. 4:11 would have been stock!!

[JM 35 Sedan]

Originally Posted by Brewsterbuff

Rear end is now partially apart, enough to know that is the problem. Many teeth missing from the ring gear so I am sure the pinion is also toast, plus whatever else is also gone. Coming apart this afternoon? Where is a good place to look for a new ring and pinion set? What would be the standard ratio for 1934 passenger car?

I know this is a pretty discouraging situation for you, but I think maybe posting a few pictures of this failure might be interesting to some folks here who have not seen something like this nor had to face the not so fun part of rebuilding a banjo rear.

Here's a source that advertises repro ring and pinion gears for '32-'34 Fords in the V-8 Times Magazine. Some of these ratios offered have 10 spline pinions that would most likely drop right in your stock rear axle.

http://www.earlyford.com/

[Seth Swoboda]

Originally Posted by JM 35 Sedan

Yeah Seth, LOL, I'm almost old enough to be a member of "The Rat Pack", or in my case maybe that should be "The Pack Rats"

I was just kidding as you well know.

[jimTN]

uIf you have to buy new stuff, 3:78 are the best all around gears unless you are always going up and down steep hills.

[Mac VP]

The original gear ratios (3.78 and 4.11) were not reproduced, so unless you can find another good used gearset or an NOS set somewhere, you'll have to work with the new gears in the higher ratios. We carry that '34 ring and pinion in 3.54 and 3.25. With the stock engine you would be happier with the 3.54 gearset. We're closed today but call Monday if you decide to order with us.

[Lawrie]

Just a note .
I have both a 33 fordor and a 34 3w, when the 33 had the original 33 babbit engine it had the 4.11 gears in,it was as smooth as and would run at 60mph no drama,my 34 has a 36 lb engine and 3.54 gears in,its nowhere near as nice at 60 as the 33 was.

Lawrie

[JSeery]

What are you saying Lawrie, Ford knew what they were doing??

[tubman]

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Originally Posted by Lawrie

Just a note .
I have both a 33 fordor and a 34 3w, when the 33 had the original 33 babbit engine it had the 4.11 gears in,it was as smooth as and would run at 60mph no drama,my 34 has a 36 lb engine and 3.54 gears in,its nowhere near as nice at 60 as the 33 was.

Lawrie

Admittedly, I'm no expert on this, but it seems intuitively the opposite of what it should be. Do you have any explanation of why this would be?

[alanwoodieman]

if you find yourself wanting a 4:11 gear set for a 10 spline drive shaft, I have one from a low mileage 36 that we changed to a 3:78, had to use an adapter to go from 10 splines to 6 splines for the 3:78. the 36 LB engine really likes the 3:78. what number do you have on the speedometer turtle? 18-3:54, 19-3:78, 21-4:11

[Brewsterbuff]

I would prefer to stay with the 4:11. If you know of a good used or new one for sale, LET ME KNOW. Car is registered for the Keeneland Concours on Lexington KY in July. I hate to pull a rear from another complete running car in desperation.

[Brewsterbuff]

Sounds great. 37 tooth ring gear, 9 tooth pinion, and 10 spline drive shaft. The Brewster has an extended frame and has a steel plate on the bottom and top of the frame rails, that hides the speedometer turtle. The turtle is on the top of the Torque Tube extension so even with the floor boards out it is hidden by the top steel plate. My speedo was pretty close to correct so I assume that it is correct for the 4:11 rear. Sure would like to get together on the phone. Will try to send a private message with my number. Never did that before, hope I can make it work.

Originally Posted by alanwoodieman

if you find yourself wanting a 4:11 gear set for a 10 spline drive shaft, I have one from a low mileage 36 that we changed to a 3:78, had to use an adapter to go from 10 splines to 6 splines for the 3:78. the 36 LB engine really likes the 3:78. what number do you have on the speedometer turtle? 18-3:54, 19-3:78, 21-4:11

[JM 35 Sedan]

Originally Posted by Brewsterbuff

Sounds great. 37 tooth ring gear, 9 tooth pinion, and 10 spline drive shaft. The Brewster has an extended frame and has a steel plate on the bottom and top of the frame rails, that hides the speedometer turtle. The turtle is on the top of the Torque Tube extension so even with the floor boards out it is hidden by the top steel plate. My speedo was pretty close to correct so I assume that it is correct for the 4:11 rear. Sure would like to get together on the phone. Will try to send a private message with my number. Never did that before, hope I can make it work.

The later 35-48 gears will not work in a 32-34 rear unless some machining is done on the ring and pinion gears. Plus the splined end of the pinion is too long which would require the pinion or the driveshaft to be shortened.

[Brewsterbuff]

Sounds like the '36 is not the best unless I get into machine work. Have a couple of other replies so I guess I need to check them out.

Originally Posted by alanwoodieman

if you find yourself wanting a 4:11 gear set for a 10 spline drive shaft, I have one from a low mileage 36 that we changed to a 3:78, had to use an adapter to go from 10 splines to 6 splines for the 3:78. the 36 LB engine really likes the 3:78. what number do you have on the speedometer turtle? 18-3:54, 19-3:78, 21-4:11

[Brewsterbuff]

Is there a way to measure and make sure I get the correct one? I will look mine over for stamped part numbers. Didn't look at them that close for numbers. Frame vin # is 181205754. Most all Brewster were built on the 1934 frame but I will try to check the numbers and make sure.

Originally Posted by JM 35 Sedan

The later 35-48 gears will not work in a 32-34 rear unless some machining is done on the ring and pinion gears. Plus the splined end of the pinion is too long which would require the pinion or the driveshaft to be shortened.

[Brewsterbuff]

Thanks to everybody who went out of their way to try to help. I found a set in GA and it arrived yesterday, looks good. Hopefully by the end of the weekend I will have it back together and ready for a test drive. Don