Holley 4150 carburetor development history

[Ole Don]

In 57, the use of three carbs may have been due to supply. Possibly off topic, possibly not, how many of you have seen a 460 with a factory Quadrajet?

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Ole Don

... how many of you have seen a 460 with a factory Quadrajet?

Many. FORD's answer to performance with emissions compliance in mind (429CJ)

[Henry Floored]

Going back a little further in Ford related carburetor history we get to the Chandler Groves “94” carburetor. This is the first carburetor I know of with a power enrichment valve that appears to this day in Holley and Holley type carburetors.

By the way that ☝️ fact and a couple other details is why I always felt Holley’s including the 4150 were “Ford” carburetors.

Anyways diving into this, I have come across some literature that is in conflict with the story that Henry Ford dropped Chandler-Groves and gave the contract to Holley after only one year to save exactly one dime on each unit produced.

Henry Ford seems to draw harsh opinion from casual historical onlookers. Some of this deserved maybe but in this case I think not. Turns out Chandler-Groves was not able to supply the amount of production Ford needed. Additionally the U.S. Navy was courting Chandler-Groves for a floatless aviation carburetor. When this venture did not work out it crippled Chandler-Groves company. The result was that Holley bought C-G out including their designs. This is where the C-G, Holley, Ford connection comes from on the “94” carb we all know and love.

[KULTULZ]

THANX for that info. Personally, nothing before 1956 interested me but your research is/will be appreciated by many.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Ole Don

In 57, the use of three carbs may have been due to supply. Possibly off topic, possibly not, how many of you have seen a 460 with a factory Quadrajet?

You know, 1957 was a banner sales year for FOMOCO. I think the reason(s) may be the HOLLEY was used on the HP, the FORD on a passenger car and the CARTER used as HOLLEY may not have been able to supply enough carbs to cover assembly. FORD was using the CARTER on the LM so it would have been only a slight design change(s).

[scicala]

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Originally Posted by Ole Don

In 57, the use of three carbs may have been due to supply. Possibly off topic, possibly not, how many of you have seen a 460 with a factory Quadrajet?

I've seen factory installed Quadrajets on 429's but not the 460.

Sal

[rotorwrench]

I think George & Earl Holley bought up the failing Chandler-Groves company for several reasons. The designs were good for the aircraft carb but they needed refinement so Holley did that too. This also gave Holley the basic automotive design rights for the spray bar design used in the Ford products but Ford Motor Co also had rights to the design and both companies produced the parts.

Chandler went on to form a new company. Chandler Evans built a lot of fuel system components for aircraft for the war effort and clear up into the 1980s before Colt Industries broke up and the aerospace fuel systems division was bought out by Goodrich Aerospace (Triumph Group). I worked on a lot of helicopters that had the CECO design fuel control systems for their Allison turbine engines. They manufactured a good system but it fell by the wayside as well after it lost support.

Another interesting side note is that Milton Chandler had also worked for Bendix Stromberg before forming Chandler Groves.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by scicala

I've seen factory installed Quadrajets on 429's but not the 460.

Sal

I believe he is thinking of the MOTORCRAFT 4350, 1975/ Sal.

[scicala]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

I believe he is thinking of the MOTORCRAFT 4350, 1975/ Sal.

Ford did build some 429's in '69 or '70 if not both years with the Rochester Quadrajet. I have seen them and they are also in the Rochester manual. Not sure why they used them. Maybe a shortage of the Motorcraft carb.

Sal

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by scicala

Ford did build some 429's in '69 or '70 if not both years with the Rochester Quadrajet. I have seen them and they are also in the Rochester manual. Not sure why they used them. Maybe a shortage of the Motorcraft carb.

Sal

They did it for emissions compliance. It allowed the car to pass without their aiding A.I.R. (thermactor) to the car. Now it has me wondering as they used the 780 HOLLEY on the 429SCJ.


Here we go -

429 CJ cars had what Ford called the IMCO system, for IMproved COmbustion. It consisted of modifications to ignition timing and fuel mixture. Things that accomplished this included the Q-jet carburetor, the dual diaphragm distributor, and a throttle solenoid which helped to prevent over run on shut off. Another device (often missing today) is a thermostatic switch atop the vacuum distributor fitting (on the thermostat housing) which served to advance the timing (thus boosting engine speed) when the engine heated up during prolonged idle. CJ cars did not use the Thermactor (air injection) system.

429 SCJ cars are more interesting. All of the original ones I have seen were equipped with the Thermactor system, similar to the that on 428 CJ and Boss 429. The biggest difference is the air injection is routed to the back of the cylinder heads on the 429, as opposed to the individual exhaust port areas on the FE engines. I have been told the less precise fuel mixture control of the Holley mandated the air injection to keep emissions under control (It is also said Ford's desire to get away from Thermactor is why they went with the Q-Jet on the CJ. They had to go with the Q-Jet because their own big smog carburetor, the 4300D, wasn't ready when the 429 CJ went into production. The 4300D finally appeared on the 429, but not until 1972 as the 429 Police Interceptor. Both it and the 4300D Boss 351 of 1971 and 351 CJ and HO of 1972 avoided air pumps.)

SOURCE - http://429mustangcougarinfo.50megs.c..._emissions.htm