The Ford Barn

3twinridges · 11-17-2022, 09:38 PM

Was the throw out bearing just placed on the release hub or was it pressed on. It needs to be pressed on so that it hits the pp forks evenly.

JB

Ford whisperer · 11-18-2022, 10:23 AM

The new throw out bearing came as what appeared to be a “snug fit” to the two fingered slider. I did not mess with it. Your reasoning makes sense, but some of these bearings are different and do not allow for a pressed-on mount. The federal mogul original bearing was a slider type mount, but the new product I recently installed was not the same. Thank you. I’ll be sure to look again closely at how this bearing seats.

Dick · 11-19-2022, 12:30 PM

this is what caused my severe clutch chatter.
Even a new one I ordered was not properly seated.
Ended up finding original Ford parts and no further problem.

petehoovie · 11-19-2022, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dick

this is what caused my severe clutch chatter.
Even a new one I ordered was not properly seated.
Ended up finding original Ford parts and no further problem.

Ford whisperer · 11-22-2022, 10:53 AM

Okay. Those pics are very helpful. (Could use a tutorial on posting pics here. I have many to post with this saga, but don’t get it on exactly how.) So I’ve taken everything apart again but this time all the way down to the flywheel. I have an appointment next week with my machinist (two hour drive back to my old town) to have it surfaced. This machine work might solve the severe chatter. The new throw out bearing, given a careful look-see, is seated properly. But I’m taking this and the clutch components for the machinist to give a critical examination just to be sure. Thank you again for your interest in this problem.

corvette8n · 11-23-2022, 07:50 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford whisperer

Okay. Those pics are very helpful. (Could use a tutorial on posting pics here. I have many to post with this saga, but don’t get it on exactly how.) So I’ve taken everything apart again but this time all the way down to the flywheel. I have an appointment next week with my machinist (two hour drive back to my old town) to have it surfaced. This machine work might solve the severe chatter. The new throw out bearing, given a careful look-see, is seated properly. But I’m taking this and the clutch components for the machinist to give a critical examination just to be sure. Thank you again for your interest in this problem.

Here a tutorial on how to post
Cropping pictures to get jpeg to 800x600 usually helps.
If you use a Windows pc consider installing Photoscape it has a batch convert option to change pictures to 800x600 dpi.
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showp...&postcount=649

Lawson Cox · 11-23-2022, 04:19 PM

At first I thought someone was referring to my wife when they mentioned SEVERE CHATTER. Whew.

Ford whisperer · 12-27-2022, 11:31 AM

Epilogue: so I’ve been working on this clutch chatter issue for what seems like months. The machinist I’ve been patronizing for decades recommended an outfit in national city, California to rebuild my original clutch as the rebuilt I bought from an outfit were let’s just say bad, cost me time & money. So Tom @ southland clutch rebuilt my original clutch disc & pressure plate to exacting specs. This shop really knows their stuff. On Christmas Day I excused myself from the festivities at home and returned to my backyard shop and put the clutch & transmission back into the F1. The clutch now works perfectly and shifts thru the gears like good old times. The transmission rebuild was a success and no longer pops out of second gear. Thought you commenters would enjoy knowing the happy ending of this months long saga. Thanking you all again for your interest in this project.

nickthebandit · 12-27-2022, 11:41 AM

You should post more info on Southland Clutch, which may help others. Possibly mention the place where YOU got 2 bad clutches in a row. I hope you learned this time.

tubman · 12-27-2022, 11:56 AM

^^^

I agree. It's nice to be polite, but these days, it's almost more important to know about the bad guys than to know about the good.

A good example is the Ecklers version of "Mac's". I wasted a lot of time there before I realized that their catalog was a lot better than their product line.

slowforty · 12-27-2022, 02:20 PM

The best thing about Macs/Ecklers Catalog was when they used the original part numbers

slowforty · 12-27-2022, 02:22 PM

in their catalog Sorry

Ford whisperer · 12-28-2022, 10:06 AM

Well unlike some of these small specialized rebuild type shops, southland clutch actually has a good website; easily googled. Look ‘em up. I called Tom yesterday and reported my success with their clutch rebuild and he said they were worried that the clutch issue may have been some other malady going on but were very relieved to know all is now satisfactory, both with their rebuild and my skilled installation on Christmas Day. That concern expressed by southland earns them high marks in my opinion, so uncommon in my experience. The two bad discs and one pressure plate I believe were what you risk when vending Chinese manufactured products due to a lack of other sources such as in the U,S. Not worth the energy to indict one small company doing the best they can.

tubman · 12-28-2022, 10:47 AM

It might be "worth the energy" to prevent the next guy going through what you did.

cas3 · 12-28-2022, 03:42 PM

A clutch disk is a fairly simple piece of engineering, I wonder what they found wrong? The center hub worn badly or machined out of true is about all I can think of that would not be visible like a broken spring or cracked sheet metal part.

Gene1949 · 12-29-2022, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford whisperer

Bought from a vendor I’ve trusted for decades for not only quality parts but great advice when prompted. They get their clutches from a builder they’ve dealt with for a long time. Note this disc is the second one I installed. The first, a few weeks ago, had a loose spline hub that took me close scrutiny to discover. This replacement disc (and pressure plate) looked fine, and the vendor sent without any hassle. I think we all understand parts are not always perfect in this old car hobby.

That is totally unacceptable. You spent many good dollars and much time and effort replacing that disc twice. I'll bet you dollars to donuts when you torque down the pressure plate you'll find they screwed up the finger adjustment as well.
I fought the same battle until I bought a complete assembly (flywheel, disc and diaphragm pressure plate from Centerforce). Their 10" duel friction is smooth as a baby's bottom, good on old knees and good to 500hp with slicks.
Why would you install the driveline knowing you had zero end play? That issue needs to be resolved before you damage that rebuilt tranny

Ford whisperer · 12-29-2022, 10:31 AM

Gene those are helpful points and I should respond to your last question. Okay. I solved the end play problem but to keep the discussion focused on the clutch decided to skip that fix. Somehow, in what I think came to me one night in a dream, a voice told me to look again at the drive shaft front slip yoke. So next day I took a flashlight and examined the yoke for any obstruction inside the splined housing, while still believing I was not that careless to overlook that obvious point. So it was clean with nothing to block it from slipping all the way into the output (or main) shaft. So what about that transmission shaft? I used a narrow flat blade screwdriver and tried poking it into the splines. It should have been inserted about 3.25 inches but only found its way into the splines for 2”. Feeding the screwdriver more aggressively into the housing beyond the seal revealed a spongy resistance. I could see the builder used a serious amount a gray sealant to attach the rear mount to the transmission case. I poked into all ten splines until I cleared that sealant loose and the screwdriver achieved full purchase all 3.25” until being stopped at the case. Remember now, for those familiar with these transmissions, the rear mount enshrouding the main splined shaft does not allow seeing into it. It’s all a touchy-feely process. I bench tested the slip yoke into the transmission and it was full purchase. That solved that problem! No worry. But quite a discovery.

ford38v8 · 12-29-2022, 05:03 PM

The voice in your dream... Did it whisper to you?

I get hollered at by the wife when I steal all the blankets.

Gene1949 · 12-30-2022, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford whisperer

I could see the builder used a serious amount a gray sealant to attach the rear mount to the transmission case.

Glad you found the driveline problem. Which brings me to question the competency of the builder. In my humble opinion there never should have been that amount of sealant used to assemble your transmission.

Ford whisperer · 12-31-2022, 10:25 AM

Well you’re correct about that overzealous application of sealant. I thought perhaps the gasket would have sufficed, but some builders have their own ways of doing things. That connection between the rear mount and transmission always leaked and now it no longer does. Neither the builder nor I could have seen nor imagined that application of goo could’ve clogged the splines of the main shaft. I am satisfied that highly experienced builder remedied that major malady of popping out of second gear (replaced the entire synchro hub and various shims) and the gear oil leaks. Amazed that he still had parts sources to install. Even tougher sometimes to find a competent builder. Thanks for your comments.

11-17-2022, 09:38 PM	#21
3twinridges Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 551	Re: Severe chatter Was the throw out bearing just placed on the release hub or was it pressed on. It needs to be pressed on so that it hits the pp forks evenly. JB

11-18-2022, 10:23 AM	#22
Ford whisperer Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Idyllwild, california Posts: 33	Re: Severe chatter The new throw out bearing came as what appeared to be a “snug fit” to the two fingered slider. I did not mess with it. Your reasoning makes sense, but some of these bearings are different and do not allow for a pressed-on mount. The federal mogul original bearing was a slider type mount, but the new product I recently installed was not the same. Thank you. I’ll be sure to look again closely at how this bearing seats.

11-22-2022, 10:53 AM	#25
Ford whisperer Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Idyllwild, california Posts: 33	Re: Severe chatter Okay. Those pics are very helpful. (Could use a tutorial on posting pics here. I have many to post with this saga, but don’t get it on exactly how.) So I’ve taken everything apart again but this time all the way down to the flywheel. I have an appointment next week with my machinist (two hour drive back to my old town) to have it surfaced. This machine work might solve the severe chatter. The new throw out bearing, given a careful look-see, is seated properly. But I’m taking this and the clutch components for the machinist to give a critical examination just to be sure. Thank you again for your interest in this problem.

11-23-2022, 04:19 PM	#27
Lawson Cox Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Above the gnat line in Georgia Posts: 7,009	Re: Severe chatter At first I thought someone was referring to my wife when they mentioned SEVERE CHATTER. Whew. __________________ Life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer to the end, the faster it goes. It is better to be seen, than viewed. "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm".

12-27-2022, 11:31 AM	#28
Ford whisperer Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Idyllwild, california Posts: 33	Re: Severe chatter Epilogue: so I’ve been working on this clutch chatter issue for what seems like months. The machinist I’ve been patronizing for decades recommended an outfit in national city, California to rebuild my original clutch as the rebuilt I bought from an outfit were let’s just say bad, cost me time & money. So Tom @ southland clutch rebuilt my original clutch disc & pressure plate to exacting specs. This shop really knows their stuff. On Christmas Day I excused myself from the festivities at home and returned to my backyard shop and put the clutch & transmission back into the F1. The clutch now works perfectly and shifts thru the gears like good old times. The transmission rebuild was a success and no longer pops out of second gear. Thought you commenters would enjoy knowing the happy ending of this months long saga. Thanking you all again for your interest in this project.

12-27-2022, 11:41 AM	#29
nickthebandit Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Shippensburg, pa. Posts: 418	Re: Severe chatter You should post more info on Southland Clutch, which may help others. Possibly mention the place where YOU got 2 bad clutches in a row. I hope you learned this time.

12-27-2022, 11:56 AM	#30
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 10,368	Re: Severe chatter ^^^ I agree. It's nice to be polite, but these days, it's almost more important to know about the bad guys than to know about the good. A good example is the Ecklers version of "Mac's". I wasted a lot of time there before I realized that their catalog was a lot better than their product line.

12-27-2022, 02:20 PM	#31
slowforty Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Tinley Park Ill Posts: 1,067	Re: Severe chatter The best thing about Macs/Ecklers Catalog was when they used the original part numbers

12-27-2022, 02:22 PM	#32
slowforty Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Tinley Park Ill Posts: 1,067	Re: Severe chatter in their catalog Sorry

12-28-2022, 10:06 AM	#33
Ford whisperer Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Idyllwild, california Posts: 33	Re: Severe chatter Well unlike some of these small specialized rebuild type shops, southland clutch actually has a good website; easily googled. Look ‘em up. I called Tom yesterday and reported my success with their clutch rebuild and he said they were worried that the clutch issue may have been some other malady going on but were very relieved to know all is now satisfactory, both with their rebuild and my skilled installation on Christmas Day. That concern expressed by southland earns them high marks in my opinion, so uncommon in my experience. The two bad discs and one pressure plate I believe were what you risk when vending Chinese manufactured products due to a lack of other sources such as in the U,S. Not worth the energy to indict one small company doing the best they can.

12-28-2022, 10:47 AM	#34
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 10,368	Re: Severe chatter It might be "worth the energy" to prevent the next guy going through what you did.

12-28-2022, 03:42 PM	#35
cas3 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: sw minnesota Posts: 4,592	Re: Severe chatter A clutch disk is a fairly simple piece of engineering, I wonder what they found wrong? The center hub worn badly or machined out of true is about all I can think of that would not be visible like a broken spring or cracked sheet metal part.

12-29-2022, 10:31 AM	#37
Ford whisperer Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Idyllwild, california Posts: 33	Re: Severe chatter Gene those are helpful points and I should respond to your last question. Okay. I solved the end play problem but to keep the discussion focused on the clutch decided to skip that fix. Somehow, in what I think came to me one night in a dream, a voice told me to look again at the drive shaft front slip yoke. So next day I took a flashlight and examined the yoke for any obstruction inside the splined housing, while still believing I was not that careless to overlook that obvious point. So it was clean with nothing to block it from slipping all the way into the output (or main) shaft. So what about that transmission shaft? I used a narrow flat blade screwdriver and tried poking it into the splines. It should have been inserted about 3.25 inches but only found its way into the splines for 2”. Feeding the screwdriver more aggressively into the housing beyond the seal revealed a spongy resistance. I could see the builder used a serious amount a gray sealant to attach the rear mount to the transmission case. I poked into all ten splines until I cleared that sealant loose and the screwdriver achieved full purchase all 3.25” until being stopped at the case. Remember now, for those familiar with these transmissions, the rear mount enshrouding the main splined shaft does not allow seeing into it. It’s all a touchy-feely process. I bench tested the slip yoke into the transmission and it was full purchase. That solved that problem! No worry. But quite a discovery.

12-29-2022, 05:03 PM	#38
ford38v8 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 6,663	Re: Severe chatter The voice in your dream... Did it whisper to you? I get hollered at by the wife when I steal all the blankets. __________________ Alan

12-31-2022, 10:25 AM	#40
Ford whisperer Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Idyllwild, california Posts: 33	Re: Severe chatter Well you’re correct about that overzealous application of sealant. I thought perhaps the gasket would have sufficed, but some builders have their own ways of doing things. That connection between the rear mount and transmission always leaked and now it no longer does. Neither the builder nor I could have seen nor imagined that application of goo could’ve clogged the splines of the main shaft. I am satisfied that highly experienced builder remedied that major malady of popping out of second gear (replaced the entire synchro hub and various shims) and the gear oil leaks. Amazed that he still had parts sources to install. Even tougher sometimes to find a competent builder. Thanks for your comments.