The Ford Barn

Rowdy · 09-18-2010, 01:41 PM

After many delays at the local machine shop getting a sector shaft reccessed I am looking at home ideas for maching them. Has anyone tried doing them in their drill press or using a B&D valve grinder or other ideas? I know they are not square with the flanged surfaces, which makes a mill for the 7 tooth and a lathe for the 2 tooth ideal, but not having those things yet, I need to try to utalize what I have. I do have a sealed bid in on a smaller logan lathe, that will need some work. Likely it will be several months before a decesion is made on it. Need to get these going before then without more unneccessary delays at the machine shop. It took him nealy 1 1/2 years to get to mine along with the brake drums, which I picked up Thursday. Thanks Rod

Russ/40 · 09-18-2010, 08:45 PM

I took the exit point of the mounting flange where the shaft exits, and put a bevel in it so An o-ring would compress against the frame rail and the shaft. No leaks.

TechNova · 09-18-2010, 09:14 PM

My uncle built a fixture to holds the sector and we cut the seal recess on the lathe.

Rowdy · 09-18-2010, 09:24 PM

I was thinking about doing that also if I get the lathe I bid on, but until then I may experiment with another idea I have. I have PM'd my idea to afew people I trust with maching things. have not heard back from them yet. Rod

Doug in NJ · 09-18-2010, 10:53 PM

I machined a recess for a seal with my 7x12 mini-lathe. If I remember correctly, I turned a piece of PVC rod to the sector shaft diameter, and used it to support the housing.
Fortunately the cast iron material cuts very easily in the lathe.

Here's a photo of the finished work:

http://www.dougbraun.com/model_a_gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=4517

Doug

Russ/40 · 09-18-2010, 11:32 PM

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Doug, I went to your link, and got lost into your photos for a good half hour. Very impressive restoration. Nice documentation.

Rowdy · 09-19-2010, 11:31 AM

That will work nice for the 2 tooth boxes if I get the lathe bought. For now, no lathe and working on 7 tooth boxes. Going to try a new shop that opend up last year. The guy is abit Green from tech school, but comes hightly recommneded by the welding and machine shop instructor at the voc-tech. Will see how he does on the first one, before taking the other to him. Rod

dlshady · 09-19-2010, 11:54 AM

Rod,

A couple years ago I made a fixture to do the 7 tooth boxes using my mill and a conventional boring head. The fixture bolts to the four 1/4" holes on the end of the box and has a saddle that lays underneath the tube, right where it connects to the box casting. Then I used a standard adjustable support underneath the sector shaft hole to get everything level. It takes some setup time to be sure that everything is squared up and ready to go, and you have to be very careful to make small cuts because the is will chatter easily. Nowhere as simple as the two toth boxes but definately possible with a little effort.

Deron

Rowdy · 09-19-2010, 12:25 PM

No mill yet. What I am proposing in thought only at this point is using a valve seat cutting tool mounted in the drill press, using a correct size collete giude in the bushings after reaming to fit. My main concern is chatter due to the angle in relation to the flat surface and the sector shaft bore. Also will this cause the valve seat cutter to walk off center abit? It will have a 9/16" pilot shaft. Rod

JoeWay · 09-19-2010, 02:50 PM

Rod, I don't think you will be able to get satisfactory results using a drill press for this job, regardless of tooling. The valve cutter WILL chatter, and it WILL walk. The hole won't be the right size anyway, and it won't have a square corner.

Even if you had a proper boring head, a drill press spindle is far too loose for this kind of work.

Joe

dlshady · 09-19-2010, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeWay

Rod, I don't think you will be able to get satisfactory results using a drill press for this job, regardless of tooling. The valve cutter WILL chatter, and it WILL walk. The hole won't be the right size anyway, and it won't have a square corner.

Even if you had a proper boring head, a drill press spindle is far too loose for this kind of work.

Joe

I'm going to have to agree with Joe on this one. I'm all for doing things myself whenever possible, but even with the proper tools this isn't an easy job because there's not really any good places to attach to the 7 tooth boxes. I think if I were in your shoes I'd design and build a fixture to securely hold the box at the proper angle and then pay a local machine shop to do the actual cutting. Personally I think it would be money well spent, and you'll still own the tooling for when you do get around to buying your own machine.

Deron

dave in australia · 09-19-2010, 06:51 PM

I did a similar thing as dlshady, except my milling fixture uses the two bolt holes that attach to the chassis. It is a tophat shaped fixture with a hole that lines up with the sector bore. I use a boring bar with a radiussed(sp) tip to suit an O ring. The RHD 7 tooth boxes don't have enough steel to mount a chevron seal. Haven't mounted the boxes into my cars yet, they're still under restoration.

dlshady · 09-19-2010, 07:45 PM

Dave,

The LHD 7 tooth boxes are probably very similar to the RHD boxes since there's very little material around the sector hole and will not accept the larger seal that we use on the 2 tooth boxes. I managed to locate a much smaller seal that will work, but its so thin that its tough to get in without damage. I think I trashed two of them the first time I did one of these, but a little chamfer on the bore and a light oil will do wonders. I'll try and remember to get the number off a box tomorrow at work in case some of you guys want to try it.

Deron

Bob Johnson · 09-20-2010, 01:12 PM

Recently I cut a groove in a steering sector shaft housing for a seal. I did it on my lathe. I tried several methods of mounting the housing on the lathe. The best way I found was to use a pipe which had been turned to the inside diameter of housing. I removed the bushings thus the pipe was turned to fit the housing without the bushings. The first picture shows the pipe mounted in the lathe. Notice the screw at the chuck end of the pipe. The second picture shows the housing mounted on the pipe. Again notice the screw which holds the housing to the pipe. The screw fits nicely through the oil hole at the end of the housing.

Bob

d.j. moordigian · 09-20-2010, 02:32 PM

Rod,

Use an old sector shaft, weld an old 1/4" lath bit to it, weld a bolt on the square end
to turn with a drill.....yes, you have to cut the 7 teeth off. I'm not sure if the shaft is a
nominal size...if it is, just use a piece of shaft. This hole mess works, done it. BTW
grind the tool bit to the right OD.

Dudley

09-18-2010, 01:41 PM	#1
Rowdy BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80 Posts: 4,893	Sector Shaft Seal Machining After many delays at the local machine shop getting a sector shaft reccessed I am looking at home ideas for maching them. Has anyone tried doing them in their drill press or using a B&D valve grinder or other ideas? I know they are not square with the flanged surfaces, which makes a mill for the 7 tooth and a lathe for the 2 tooth ideal, but not having those things yet, I need to try to utalize what I have. I do have a sealed bid in on a smaller logan lathe, that will need some work. Likely it will be several months before a decesion is made on it. Need to get these going before then without more unneccessary delays at the machine shop. It took him nealy 1 1/2 years to get to mine along with the brake drums, which I picked up Thursday. Thanks Rod __________________ Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!!

09-18-2010, 08:45 PM	#2
Russ/40 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Santee, California Posts: 3,505	Re: Sector Shaft Seal Machining I took the exit point of the mounting flange where the shaft exits, and put a bevel in it so An o-ring would compress against the frame rail and the shaft. No leaks.

09-18-2010, 09:14 PM	#3
TechNova Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Strawbridge, WI Posts: 48	Re: Sector Shaft Seal Machining My uncle built a fixture to holds the sector and we cut the seal recess on the lathe.

09-18-2010, 09:24 PM	#4
Rowdy BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80 Posts: 4,893	Re: Sector Shaft Seal Machining I was thinking about doing that also if I get the lathe I bid on, but until then I may experiment with another idea I have. I have PM'd my idea to afew people I trust with maching things. have not heard back from them yet. Rod __________________ Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!!

09-18-2010, 10:53 PM	#5
Doug in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Princeton, NJ Posts: 965	Re: Sector Shaft Seal Machining I machined a recess for a seal with my 7x12 mini-lathe. If I remember correctly, I turned a piece of PVC rod to the sector shaft diameter, and used it to support the housing. Fortunately the cast iron material cuts very easily in the lathe. Here's a photo of the finished work: http://www.dougbraun.com/model_a_gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=4517 Doug __________________ My '31 S/W sedan project:http://31ford.dougbraun.com My restoration diary: http://dougbraun.com/blog Last edited by Doug in NJ; 09-18-2010 at 10:53 PM. Reason: typos!

09-18-2010, 11:32 PM	#6
Russ/40 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Santee, California Posts: 3,505	Re: Sector Shaft Seal Machining Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Doug, I went to your link, and got lost into your photos for a good half hour. Very impressive restoration. Nice documentation.

09-19-2010, 11:31 AM	#7
Rowdy BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80 Posts: 4,893	Re: Sector Shaft Seal Machining That will work nice for the 2 tooth boxes if I get the lathe bought. For now, no lathe and working on 7 tooth boxes. Going to try a new shop that opend up last year. The guy is abit Green from tech school, but comes hightly recommneded by the welding and machine shop instructor at the voc-tech. Will see how he does on the first one, before taking the other to him. Rod __________________ Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!!

09-19-2010, 11:54 AM	#8
dlshady Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 538	Re: Sector Shaft Seal Machining Rod, A couple years ago I made a fixture to do the 7 tooth boxes using my mill and a conventional boring head. The fixture bolts to the four 1/4" holes on the end of the box and has a saddle that lays underneath the tube, right where it connects to the box casting. Then I used a standard adjustable support underneath the sector shaft hole to get everything level. It takes some setup time to be sure that everything is squared up and ready to go, and you have to be very careful to make small cuts because the is will chatter easily. Nowhere as simple as the two toth boxes but definately possible with a little effort. Deron

09-19-2010, 12:25 PM	#9
Rowdy BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80 Posts: 4,893	Re: Sector Shaft Seal Machining No mill yet. What I am proposing in thought only at this point is using a valve seat cutting tool mounted in the drill press, using a correct size collete giude in the bushings after reaming to fit. My main concern is chatter due to the angle in relation to the flat surface and the sector shaft bore. Also will this cause the valve seat cutter to walk off center abit? It will have a 9/16" pilot shaft. Rod __________________ Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!!

09-19-2010, 02:50 PM	#10
JoeWay Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Quincy CA Posts: 752	Re: Sector Shaft Seal Machining Rod, I don't think you will be able to get satisfactory results using a drill press for this job, regardless of tooling. The valve cutter WILL chatter, and it WILL walk. The hole won't be the right size anyway, and it won't have a square corner. Even if you had a proper boring head, a drill press spindle is far too loose for this kind of work. Joe __________________ 1929 Tudor since 1962 Feather River A's

09-19-2010, 06:51 PM	#12
dave in australia Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Victoria, Australia Posts: 1,177	Re: Sector Shaft Seal Machining I did a similar thing as dlshady, except my milling fixture uses the two bolt holes that attach to the chassis. It is a tophat shaped fixture with a hole that lines up with the sector bore. I use a boring bar with a radiussed(sp) tip to suit an O ring. The RHD 7 tooth boxes don't have enough steel to mount a chevron seal. Haven't mounted the boxes into my cars yet, they're still under restoration.

09-19-2010, 07:45 PM	#13
dlshady Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 538	Re: Sector Shaft Seal Machining Dave, The LHD 7 tooth boxes are probably very similar to the RHD boxes since there's very little material around the sector hole and will not accept the larger seal that we use on the 2 tooth boxes. I managed to locate a much smaller seal that will work, but its so thin that its tough to get in without damage. I think I trashed two of them the first time I did one of these, but a little chamfer on the bore and a light oil will do wonders. I'll try and remember to get the number off a box tomorrow at work in case some of you guys want to try it. Deron

09-20-2010, 02:32 PM	#15
d.j. moordigian Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Fresno, Ca. Posts: 3,636	Re: Sector Shaft Seal Machining Rod, Use an old sector shaft, weld an old 1/4" lath bit to it, weld a bolt on the square end to turn with a drill.....yes, you have to cut the 7 teeth off. I'm not sure if the shaft is a nominal size...if it is, just use a piece of shaft. This hole mess works, done it. BTW grind the tool bit to the right OD. Dudley