Oil Change

[Wick]

Go onto Youtube and look up Model A oil change...it shows where the man removes the pan (sitting for 50 years).....No words can describe what he shows you YUK!

[Fred K-OR]

Thanks guys for the info. I do use a good brand of 10-30 detergent oil here in the Oregon area where it does not get to cold in the winter. Besides I do not drive much in the cold weather anyway. Except today we drove about 70 miles on a tour and the weather was rather cold, about 26 to start with. But after putting on layers of clothes and driving gloves, everything was not to bad.

Thanks again for the help.

[Allanw]

Originally Posted by Patrick L.

His article states that Ferrari wants the oil to be 10 weight[grade] at operating temps. OK, who is anyone to dispute what that prestigious manufacturer wants.

Not quite: was he said was: "The automotive designers usually call for their engines to run at 212 F oil and water temperature with an oil thickness of 10. This is the viscosity of the oil, not the weight or grade as labeled on the oil can."

The 10 he refers to is 10cSt, which is roughly what SAE 30 oil measures at 212F (100C). At 75F, SAE 30 would thicken to about 250 cSt, where a 0W-30 has only thickened to 40 cSt - they are the same at 212F though - 10cSt.

Ideally, our engines would run at 212 - to burn off the moisture that causes the corrosive acids in the crankcase.

So if SAE 30 was your chosen grade for operating temps, then the oil that stays closest to the viscosity through the temperature range from cold to warm, is going to be 0W-30. It's the one which will be thinnest at room temp, and will thin out to the same viscosity at operating temp as the other oils (5W-30, 10W-30, 20W-30 and straight 30). a 20W-30 will be FAR thicker at room temp, and also thin out to the same viscosity at operating temp.

Ideally, oil would be the same viscosity (10cSt) at ALL temperatures, but they aren't - they are ALL thicker when cold (too thick).

A 0W-30 would be fine all year round in most climates, though it's going to be expensive, if you're going to change it every 1000 or 1500 miles. In the interests of cost savings, anything with your chosen operating temperature viscosity (the second number - usually 30 or 40 for a model A), and the lowest first number you're happy with the price of will be fine. I'd suggest the colder your climate is, the lower the first number you aim for.

As everybody says, pretty much anything will be OK... just if you're using straight 30 or 20W-30 etc, you're sacrificing cold start protection for lower cost oil - the lower that first number is, the better cold start flow/protection you will have, and a Model A without a thermostat can be running cold a lot of the time!

[tbirdtbird]

Ryan should ban all threads about oil. I can't take it any more.
Since sludge seems to be so good for an engine, I think I will buy some at the Sludge Store and dump it in my crankcase.

Too bad I tossed out the 1.5 inch layer of it I scraped out of my 1950 Jeepster oil pan....with only 20 K miles and regular oil changes, and no filter. I shoulda left it in there.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by tbirdtbird

Ryan should ban all threads about oil. I can't take it any more.
Since sludge seems to be so good for an engine, I think I will buy some at the Sludge Store and dump it in my crankcase.

Too bad I tossed out the 1.5 inch layer of it I scraped out of my 1950 Jeepster oil pan....with only 20 K miles and regular oil changes, and no filter. I shoulda left it in there.

Rare sludge, could have sold it on ebay!

[Patrick L.]

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Sludge is funny stuff isn't it. Back in the day I've pulled valve covers and found the manufacturers name molded perfectly in the sludge. Yep, I really miss scraping all that stuff out of all the nooks and crannies, what fun it used to be. Good old straight weight non detergent oil is such great stuff.

[Mitch//pa]

sludge is also caused by an engine running to cool
thats why a t-stat is important

[Brother Hesekiel]

Fred,

which oil to choose always depends on the car and the purpose of the car, as well as the operating conditions. ANY oil, whether 20 or 30 grade will work just fine once it's warmed up. The main purpose of the article is to take away the old wifes' tale that a 20-50 or a thicker single grade oil is a good thing, even for an old engine or one with large tolerances (think old Chevy 350 with 400K miles).

The main reason of wear in an engine is start up, with no lubrication, followed by the time with cold oil. The point is, the perfect oil for a Model A would be a 0W-30. That's only available as a synthetic though. Think of it this way: your 30 grade oil or even 20 grade oil is all your Model A will ever need under normal operating conditions, unless it's 110 degrees outside and you are climbing a long winding hill with full throttle. What you need to worry about is the time until your oil is fully warmed up. On a no-pressure system, like the Model T has it, think how much easier it is to spoon up super thin juice compared to honey and throw it on the moving parts. One cold start equals hundreds of miles of driving, so that's a big deal. I personally buy the cheapest 5W-30 oil I can find. For a while now my CarQuest store sells Castrol Synthetic Blend in gallon form for $15.99, which I think is a good deal.

Even for a freshly rebuilt engine, I would go with 10-grade non-detergent oil only for a very short break-in period. Better yet is Purple Power Engine Break In oil, made for specifically that purpose.

I am also a big fan of using diesel oil in old engines. It's designated for diesels, as it is designed to keep carbon particles in suspension, and the "good old" *CI4 or older) diesel oils do not meet today's emission requirements. I use dino diesel oil in my old BMW motorcycles. The R69S also only has a non-pressurized splash system. A gallon of Rotella or Valvoline Blue diesel oil cost about $18.99.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

I WELL remember when, in the '50's, an oil company came to auto shop to demo their NEW "MULTI-GRADE" OILS!
Made sense to me, it's THINNER when COLD & THICKER when it's HOT! This results in a more constant viscosity through ALL temperature ranges, resulting in proper flow through all the oil passages.
A friend put 50W in a '59 Cadillac, the oil would NOT even flow into the hydraulic lifters & it did KLICKIDY- KLICK for 20 minutes!!!! Drained it for 2 days, put in 10-30 W & all was WELL!! Bill W.

[Terry,NJ]

I recall fitutzin with cars (Fords) in the late 50s and early 60s. Cost was the dominant factor and Wolf's head and Fox Head filled the bill ($12 @ a case of 24 qts) Brrrrr! It was oil, But....! AND I recall the early overheads (239, 256, 272, 292, 312) and their infamous "Oiler kits" You must remember those little masterpieces of plumbing that bypassed the oil galeries that were so clogged with SLUDGE. And these engines had filters! Remember the lovely scoopfuls of sludge we used to take out of the valve covers. Those were the days!
Terry

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

I WELL remember when, in the '50's, an oil company came to auto shop to demo their NEW "MULTI-GRADE" OILS!
Made sense to me, it's THINNER when COLD & THICKER when it's HOT! This results in a more constant viscosity through ALL temperature ranges, resulting in proper flow through all the oil passages.
A friend put 50W in a '59 Cadillac, the oil would NOT even flow into the hydraulic lifters & it did KLICKIDY- KLICK for 20 minutes!!!! Drained it for 2 days, put in 10-30 W & all was WELL!! Bill W.

[Bruce Adams]

Originally Posted by Big John

straight 30 weight....non detergent as intended by instruction book....

FWIW
While I use 5W30 MOBIL ONE synthetic oil in my (Antique Engine Rebuilders -Skokie) engine, page 14 of my 1931 Owners manual says to use "S.A.E. viscosity No. 40 ...for summer use. For winter use...S.A.E. No 20 should be used."

[Patrick L.]

Originally Posted by Terry,NJ

I recall fitutzin with cars (Fords) in the late 50s and early 60s. Cost was the dominant factor and Wolf's head and Fox Head filled the bill ($12 @ a case of 24 qts) Brrrrr! It was oil, But....! AND I recall the early overheads (239, 256, 272, 292, 312) and their infamous "Oiler kits" You must remember those little masterpieces of plumbing that bypassed the oil galeries that were so clogged with SLUDGE. And these engines had filters! Remember the lovely scoopfuls of sludge we used to take out of the valve covers. Those were the days!
Terry

Those were the days, thats for sure. Those old Fords would spin a cam bearing and shut the oil off to the rockers, what fun that was. Scraping sludge was SOP. So much fun.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by Terry,NJ

I recall fitutzin with cars (Fords) in the late 50s and early 60s. Cost was the dominant factor and Wolf's head and Fox Head filled the bill ($12 @ a case of 24 qts) Brrrrr! It was oil, But....! AND I recall the early overheads (239, 256, 272, 292, 312) and their infamous "Oiler kits" You must remember those little masterpieces of plumbing that bypassed the oil galeries that were so clogged with SLUDGE. And these engines had filters! Remember the lovely scoopfuls of sludge we used to take out of the valve covers. Those were the days!
Terry

Yep, Terry, and the valves would stick on the "Y" blocks, if they sat too long on the used car lot & the push rod would jump off the mushroom tappet. I'd use a spring hooked to the rocker adjuster to keep the push rod on the lifter. THEN, I'd hook a strong spring to side of the valve spring, and from the top of that spring, I'd use a long skinny bar, prying up on the spring, get someone to start it, & with my free hand, I'd keep squirtin' crap on the valve stem until it freed up. It wuz easier than pullin' the heads.
And sometimes the crap build up in the valve covers would FALL & plug up the big oil return holes in the head, FILL the valve covers with oil & MAN would them dudes SMOKE!!!!!!!! When you pulled the valve covers, the oil would run almost ALL the way down your DRIVEWAY BOY! I sure miss all that great fun!!! WHY IN HELL WOULD ANYBODY EVEN "THINK" ABOUT RUNNIN' NON-DETERGENT OIL, EVER, EVER, EVER,---blaaaaah!! I DON'T even put it in my JOHN DEERE SQUIRT CAN THAT CHIEF GAVE ME!!! Bill W.
(If you have any leftover NEW non-detergent oil, use it up on your "SLIP & SLIDE", INSTEAD OF WASTING PRECIOUS WATER!!)

[Allanw]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

I WELL remember when, in the '50's, an oil company came to auto shop to demo their NEW "MULTI-GRADE" OILS!
Made sense to me, it's THINNER when COLD & THICKER when it's HOT! This results in a more constant viscosity through ALL temperature ranges, resulting in proper flow through all the oil passages.

Ahhh. A common misunderstood thing about multi-vis.

All oils thicken as they cool, multi-vis thickens LESS as it cools.

They actually haven't invented an oil that is thin enough at startup yet - they're all too thick.

So, 0W-30 and SAE30 are the same thickness when "hot" (212F) - measured as about 10cSt - about right for running an engine.

The difference is when they are cold (room temps - maybe 75F): 0W-30 probably measures 40 cSt, but SAE30 will measure probably around 200 cSt - that's what causes the wear - you get REALLY high oil pressure, but low flow.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Allanw

Ahhh. A common misunderstood thing about multi-vis.

All oils thicken as they cool, multi-vis thickens LESS as it cools.

They actually haven't invented an oil that is thin enough at startup yet - they're all too thick.

So, 0W-30 and SAE30 are the same thickness when "hot" (212F) - measured as about 10cSt - about right for running an engine.

The difference is when they are cold (room temps - maybe 75F): 0W-30 probably measures 40 cSt, but SAE30 will measure probably around 200 cSt - that's what causes the wear - you get REALLY high oil pressure, but low flow.

This may also help;

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=119270&page=1

[SDJason]

I know - next oil change I'll use 1 quart each of 5-30, 10-40, 20-50, and straight 30.

That'll keep me covered all-around, then : )

Just gotta decide if the straight 30 should be detergent or non-detergent...

[Patrick L.]

Originally Posted by SDJason

I know - next oil change I'll use 1 quart each of 5-30, 10-40, 20-50, and straight 30.

That'll keep me covered all-around, then : )

Just gotta decide if the straight 30 should be detergent or non-detergent...

Ya, but, but, but, which one goes in first ?

[Allanw]

Originally Posted by SDJason

I know - next oil change I'll use 1 quart each of 5-30, 10-40, 20-50, and straight 30.

That'll keep me covered all-around, then : )

Just gotta decide if the straight 30 should be detergent or non-detergent...

Just add a cup of Lux Flakes

[Brother Hesekiel]

I remember when we poured a can of STP into the engine oil, as that stuff sticks like glue to the metal parts and thus prevents wear. Thinking about it, a 50/50 blend of straight 60W Harley motor oil and STP might be ideal. To be sure, add a can of Slick 50!
:-)

[Rex_A_Lott]

Originally Posted by Brother Hesekiel

I remember when we poured a can of STP into the engine oil, as that stuff sticks like glue to the metal parts and thus prevents wear. Thinking about it, a 50/50 blend of straight 60W Harley motor oil and STP might be ideal. To be sure, add a can of Slick 50!
:-)

Years ago I added a can of STP to a very worn A model engine, with the mistaken belief that a worn out engine needed needed to have much, much, thicker oil. All I accomplished was to make it start leaking in places it had never leaked before.. Never again, for me. Definitely one of the times I outsmarted myself.