Help Identify, Maybe French Flathead? ...

[40Pickup]

Can you Barners help me identify this engine!
Bore 3.3/16".Have not seen the crankshaft yet.
Mushroom valves.
Aluminum oil pan.
Solex carburetors.

Thanks in advance, Jorgen



























Even my pickup is a bit curious!

[fredv]

What makes you think this is a French flathead ?
Post war French (big) Flatheads were used only on trucks and on Ford Vendome and Ford Comete Monte Carlo ("Mistral" engine using aluminium heads and Zenith Stromberg carburetor).

[Binx]

Here's something that may help...

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=74803

Lonnie

[Mike51Merc]

The governor port on the back of the engine, the Solex carb, and the cast oil pan are things you'll find on the French flatheads.
On the other hand, it has a generator instead of an alternator which indicates an older engine.

[scooder]

The "governor port" is actually an ignition port. This is where a post style ignition goes in.
Confused?
Its not French, it's German. An odd ball Flathead, that as I said has the ignition at the back, Big Lincoln flathead style.
Hope this helps,
Martin.

[scooder]

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Just read that above link, should have looked first. Then wouldn't sound like I'm just repeating words,
Sorry,
Martin.

[HotRodmicky]

Yep German flathead!

[HotRodmicky]

I hope you find the main caps

[Mart]

I don't mind repeating words.

It's German.

I had one in my 40, a low mileage unit from a fire appliance. A real nice smooth unit. That one might be useful if the main caps are there. It's like a french motor in as much as the bottom end is like 59A and the top ends are shaped like 8BA.

Mart.

[Mike51Merc]

So now you can tell everyone you have a crate motor.

[Mart]

The rear boss is definitely for a bosch distributor. You can see the distributor drive on the end of the oil pump shaft in the picture with the pistons. You can also see the distributor adaptor in place in the rear boss.

The thicker than normal front (timing) cover is set up with the bolt pattern for a 3 bolt distributor, and the cam is the long, early style, and a 3 bolt distributor can be bolted on in the front location and used instead of the rear location. Parts for the rear mount Bosch distributor are hard to find.

The aluminium oil pan is not compatible with a conventional USA type starter, the bosch pre engaged starter can be seen in one of the photos.

When I ran one in my 40 I used the oil pan, flywheel and starter from the worn out 59A I was replacing. I ran a 2 bolt crab distributor on a 3 bolt to 2 bolt adaptor. I blanked the rear distributor hole with a standard (inch sized) core plug. I used truck type pumps.

Mart.

[40Pickup]

Thanks guys, now I know better! Still learning ........
I have to dig a little more.
There is also a truck transmission I think 4 speed.

Thanks again, Jorgen

[bob miller]

it's a german 29 ! a good base .

[Mart]

It's hard to be certain, but the truck transmission may have the removeable "hogshead" type bellhousing, which is handy for various conversions. the truck transmission is only of very limited value or interest. (in my opinion).

Mart.

[FlatheadTed]

Here's a French one ?

[scooder]

Yes Ted, that's a French one. It has a governor boss, looks quite a bit different than the German one.
Martin.

[Mart]

That French one has had the governor boss machined off/down as much as possible. It normally is taller than that.

Mart.

[Bruce Lancaster]

The later version of the G29 like yours retained the boss for early 3-bolt distributor up front, covered with a plate, so you have a ready backup plan for that part. It is probably from the big truck series with 1940 style sheetmetal, sold til about 1954...I don't think Ford Germany made any V8 cars after the war.
Your serial would if Amercan mark it as a 1948 build...Ford Germany serialed these engines from blocks of American serial numbers released for German manufacture.
How that corresponds with actual calendar, I don't know, as it would likely have been built and used in a rather slow production rate and not popped into a vehicle right away as in US production.
G29 series started as German built 239 29's, exactly equivalent except for timing pin and early type distributor to 1942 USA mercury and heavy truck. It eventually got the post for a German Bosch distributor and the modified heads.

[FlatheadTed]

I heard that the French military Govt ,brought the rights from Simca /Chrysler after the war ,?

[scooder]

Don't know about that Ted. Simca were still building the 60 in the late 50's poss early 60's, albeit slightly modified. And Chrysler a bit later in south America with their over head valve V8 60.
Martin.

[Ol' Ron]

I'm not familiar with these engines, however the 59 Main caps may fit?? If so have the block line bored and you're all set. Line boring Flathead blocks can be tricky, curt .005" off the mounting surface off the caps, do not mill the block. This can cause other problems. I have a fixture for this.

[FlatheadTed]

I was told by a French guy that the Military brought the rights I think for the bigger Flathead or it was produced for them some time maybe in the 50s ,produced up to the 90s ,The little 60 was produced as a Flathead by Simca into the 50s ,and as you say it was produced in south America by Chrysler as a OHV with the pan extension .

Originally Posted by scooder

Don't know about that Ted. Simca were still building the 60 in the late 50's poss early 60's, albeit slightly modified. And Chrysler a bit later in south America with their over head valve V8 60.
Martin.

[fredv]

Small flatheads were produced by Ford France until 1954, then Simca bought Ford France and produced the small flathead until 1961. The "big" flathead was also produced by Ford France until 1954 for French Ford cars (Vendome and Comete Monte Carlo) and trucks. Simca Unic (Simca truck division) produced the big flathead for French Army trucks until mid 80'.
Regarding Brazilian small flatheads, there were first produced by Simca do Brasil and identical to French small flathead. Only the last one were produced with overhead valves (in 1964 or 65) and finally Chrysler bought Simca do Brasil.

[FlatheadTed]

Good information Fredv