S10 T5 into a 41 truck

[Graeme / New Zealand]

For those interested in T5 swaps to open drive this has just gone up on Youtube.

Not something I would do but it has been talked about on here before so it is interesting to see what is involved from a visual perspective.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1nLUBkB80U

GB

[Bored&Stroked]

Good video and they did a solid job on the repairs to the X-member, the new plates, etc.. Now, if it was only that easy in a 32 - 34 Ford . . . a lot more of us would be running T5's! LOL

[Krylon32]

Sold a lot of T5 kits for an installation like the above.

[Ol' Ron]

The 46/48 rear would be alot easier and cheaper. I don;t think the S-10 is the besst choice in T-5s Gramps
Plam ahead

[cadillac512]

Nice work. Thanks for the link...good to see proper work done.



Terry

[Bored&Stroked]

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The most common versions of the S-10 T5 transmission typically have very low first gears (as they were in very low powered mini-trucks). This can be improved if you find one with the road-race gear set with the 2.95 low gear - or swap out the gear set (expensive).

Sometimes I will replace the overdrive gear sets with the .82 OD - for less of an RPM drop going from 4th to OD.

The biggest challenge for earlier cars (32 - 24) is the issue of having to hack the cross-members to get the transmission to fit through (as well as what approach to use for the replacement or retrofit of the torque-tube).

At least they installed a torque arm on this truck - to take the load off of the spindly radius rods. This is a very important part of the install.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

The most common versions of the S-10 T5 transmission typically have very low first gears (as they were in very low powered mini-trucks). This can be improved if you find one with the road-race gear set with the 2.95 low gear - or swap out the gear set (expensive).

Sometimes I will replace the overdrive gear sets with the .82 OD - for less of an RPM drop going from 4th to OD.

Dale ("Bored & Stroked") has made a couple of keen observations here. The 2.95 1st gear gearset for a T5 (which I refer to as the "close-ratio" or the "Camaro V8" gearset) is by far the gearset of choice for folks transplanting these "S-10" transmissions into our early, street-driven vehicles. Most "S-10" T5s have a 4.03 or 3.97 1st gear which is almost useless for anything other than parades and stump-pulling. That 2.95 1st gear is mighty close to the 1st gear ratio of 2.82 found in MOST old Ford 3-speed transmissions, for comparison reasons. The ONLY "S-10" parts that should be considered are the TAIL SHAFT housing (which has the FORWARD shift location) and the lid with the correspondingly SHORT shift rod. These parts will BOLT-ON to any T5 transmission case.

Also as noted, a desirable move is to replace the OVERDRIVE ratio with an optimally higher number (ratio) set of gears than the .63 ratio that comes with MOST 2.95 gearsets. Most 2.95 gearsets come with a 25/51 pair of O/D gears to create that .63 O/D ratio. That is a pretty good drop in RPMs from 4th gear. The .82 O/D ratio mentioned above is going to be difficult to come by in a T5, although is common in a TKO or TKX type Tremec aftermarket trans. But there is a little-known set of 31/55 set of O/D gears that was fitted to a FEW T5s with 2.95 gearsets that nets a 0.73 O/D ratio that is much more desirable than that more-common 0.63 O/D ratio.

T5s can be a great choice to make in one of these old flathead-equipped cars if only the end user will take full advantage of what the T5 has to offer, which requires doing a little bit of research into this T5 phenomenon before just going out and buying the first "S-10" trans that you see. On the other hand, a complete T5 out of an "S-10" can really turn out to be a disappointment to some, especially if your old Ford came equipped with a 4.11 rear end.

Coop

.

[Bored&Stroked]

Hey Coup - was wondering if you could comment on the various input shafts that are available (depending on application) and what the lengths are from the front of the case?

Also, what is the issue with a mechanical speedo setup - does that take a certain main-shaft version? I've usually ran the Ford Motorsports versions of the T5, they have the 2.95 gear sets and the speedo - so I don't know the story for junkyard T5's.

I don't have the above information available, and it is important to know (at least I believe so!). LOL

[38bill]

Just a couple of things to add.

I installed a S10 Chevy T5 into my pickup 20 years ago. Yes 1st gear is low but with a 3:54 rear end and tall tires it works very well for me.

In my case using the same rear wishbone mount that is shown in the video put the angle of my driveshaft way out of alignment. I ended making one that mounted the rear heims joint vertically instead of horizontally.

I added a second torque arm (one on each rear wishbone leg) after one of the 2 bolts that holds the torque arm to the rear end snapped. Obviously the torque arms are there for a good reason.

[Bored&Stroked]

Originally Posted by 38bill

Just a couple of things to add.

I installed a S10 Chevy T5 into my pickup 20 years ago. Yes 1st gear is low but with a 3:54 rear end and tall tires it works very well for me.

In my case using the same rear wishbone mount that is shown in the video put the angle of my driveshaft way out of alignment. I ended making one that mounted the rear heims joint vertically instead of horizontally.

I added a second torque arm (one on each rear wishbone leg) after one of the 2 bolts that holds the torque arm to the rear end snapped. Obviously the torque arms are there for a good reason.

So, on the rear radius rod mount, it was too high in the frame(where the radius rod ends attached), so you didn't have enough driveshaft angle in the u-joints?

[Bored&Stroked]

One might want to add a tubular cross member that has a drop in it (so below the frame) where one would then mount the radius rods. This would be more similar to a ladder bar setup from folks like Pete and Jakes. Also, one could use it as the basis for a drive-shaft "loop", which is never a bad idea.

2023-07-23_13-23-48.jpg

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

Hey Coup - was wondering if you could comment on the various input shafts that are available (depending on application) and what the lengths are from the front of the case?

Also, what is the issue with a mechanical speedo setup - does that take a certain main-shaft version? I've usually ran the Ford Motorsports versions of the T5, they have the 2.95 gear sets and the speedo - so I don't know the story for junkyard T5's.

I don't have the above information available, and it is important to know (at least I believe so!). LOL

Man, you ask some really good questions. I BELIEVE that all Ford input shafts are of the 10-spline variety and that all are either 7.18", 7.41" or 7.85" long (as measured from the front face of main case). Suffice it to say that all of the FORD 2.95 gear sets seem to have the 7.18" input length. Those all seem to have a 0.668" pilot diameter. The Camaro V8 or "close-ratio" GM transmissions with the 2.95 1st gear ALL have a 26-spline input shaft which I believe protrudes 6.69" from the front face of the main case. BEWARE that the '93 "S-10" T5 also sports a 26-spline input shaft that protrudes 7.3" from the front face of the main case. The 'wimpy' (non-close-ratio) GM transmissions all have a 14-spline input. Note that I don't have a problem with using a NWC (Non World Class) trans behind a flathead or a mild Chevy engine as the only real differences between WC and NWC is bearing type used to support the cluster gear, as well as the materials used in the synchronizer rings.

You asked about the mechanical speedo set-up. With a NWC T5 out of a V8 Camaro, the "S-10" rear housing with its mechanical speedo drive hole will bolt-on, but the hole in the housing is in a different spot than that which lines-up with the speedo drive gear on the Camaro main shaft. There is a way to easily modify (move) the drive gear to the correct position on the Camaro main shaft, but you can just as easily substitute an "S-10" MAIN SHAFT for the Camaro main shaft. The two shafts are machined identically to receive the 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears further forward inside the transmission main case. This way, the speedo gear is in the proper location to line-up with the "S-10" housing's speedo drive hole.

So ideally, one would swap an "S-10" rear housing, main shaft as well as the short shift rail onto an otherwise Camaro V8 transmission main case to have the best of all worlds.

By the way, there seems to be a shortage of robust, aftermarket shifters available for the "S-10" rear housing. An acquaintance just purchased a really nice unit with built-in shift stops from Hanlin Motorsports, a well-known T5 specialist.

So, as far as input shafts go, the Ford T5s all have the 10-spline identifier. They are all too long to use the cast bellhousing type adapters. Most of those that I've seen seem to use a thick, drilled adapter plate which does NOT have the provision of the old Ford-like clutch cross shaft set-up like the bellhousing types come with.

As can be seen, I've concentrated on the 2.95 close-ratio transmissions. Most of the others are too weak to consider using for anything but driving to the grocery store. I hope I've answered most of your questions.

Coop

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[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

One might want to add a tubular cross member that has a drop in it (so below the frame) where one would then mount the radius rods. This would be more similar to a ladder bar setup from folks like Pete and Jakes. Also, one could use it as the basis for a drive-shaft "loop", which is never a bad idea.

Attachment 521583

[38bill]

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

So, on the rear radius rod mount, it was too high in the frame(where the radius rod ends attached), so you didn't have enough driveshaft angle in the u-joints?

No, I had to move the forward attachment point up. I'm still running the stock transvers spring so there is no adjustment there. I'm assuming parallel springs would allow you to adjust the angle better.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by petehoovie

In theory, for turning both directions as in street use, both radius rods should be tied together in front and anchored at the same point as the center of the front U-joint cross. As this in not possible due to the laws of physics, anchoring 3 inches below the U-joint center gets by ok due to the "give" in the rear spring assembly.

[AnthonyG]

Interesting & well done video. I especially liked the relatively simple T5 Tranny & wish bone adapter mount plate they made!

[Ol' Ron]

Have alook at the T-170, for the older "street" use. 3 speed with OD in 4th
Gramps

[Krylon32]

Interesting reading the suggestions and comments. This conversion to a T5 is so simple and works so good almost anyone with a degree of mechanical skills can do it. I know some of you Poo Poo the S10 T5 but most of the many 100's of my customers that have used them have very few complaints. My kit supplies all the early Ford style parts needed and will hook to the stock clutch linkage. You can use your stock PP with a new disc supplied by Fort Wayne Clutch. Personally I like the 35-40 center X member kit that 40ragtopdown over on the HAMB makes. It is reasonably priced, includes the wishbone brackets and has a good fit. The open drive conversion supplied by Hot Rod Works is well engineered, fits, and it along with the wishbone kit and torque arm works great. The other alternative for the rear is a CE or TCI parallel rear spring kit and a later rear end. This set up is a little more expensive but works good. I expect some negative feedback on my comments but I've been doing T5 conversions for almost 30 years so am speaking from a few experiences.

[Bored&Stroked]

Hey Krylon32 - given the information above on input shaft splines and lengths, it would be great for you to explain what "donor" transmissions your kit supports? GM, Ford (which ones), etc.. It is obviously important to have the correct input shaft length - to match the aftermarket front bell that mounts on the T5 and bolts it to a flathead.

[Krylon32]

The 85-92 and 93 up S10 T5 has the perfect length input shaft and bearing retainer length to work with my bell housing. The input shaft length and bearing retainer length on the stock T5 Camero is just a little short. This info applies to the 4 inch deep bell housings I supply. I have done a couple FH chassis that used the bell housing from Shadow Rods with a Mustang T5 with S10 tail shaft housing. This setup used a Mustang diaphragm PP and early 50's Merc throw out brg with the clips that fit over the fork. I've had Fort Wayne Clutch make me a couple custom diaphragm PP's with the dimensions of the early 50's Ford CA30.