30 Zenith Carb

[William Kelchner]

My 30 appears to have a carb problem. Idles great but put it under load and it starts coughing back through the carb. Forum member and I think it is acting like a float problem. Has good fuel flow. No starting probs, no overheating issues. Tried numerous GAV settings all to no avail. I have read that a sticky/hung float can exhibit symptoms like this. Now to the point I could not make it 1/8th of a mile back to the driveway this morning . Thanks

[700rpm]

If this just started, I would suspect it's not the carb. My first thought is condenser.

[Mitch//pa]

Are the points gapped ok

[kenparker]

In the model A world 85% of the carburetor problems are electrically generated.

[William Kelchner]

Originally Posted by kenparker

In the model A world 85% of the carburetor problems are electrically generated.

Yep it is a constant problem and prevents me from even attempting to venture out with the car. Love the quote. One thing that stumps me is the car will idle great, rev the he$$ out of it and it is flawless, but don't try to drive it. Oh well - thanks for the responses. Have a good weekend.

[txkhog]

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also check your coils, plugs inside cap. when there is a load on the engine it takes more spark energy to fire the plug and the spark may be finding an easier path to ground than across the plug gap.

[mrraford]

Couple of thoughts here:
you may want to check to make sure the jets are not clogged in the carb.
condenser could be the answer.
is it timed correctly? Is the timing advance working properly?
make sure your distributor and coil are working properly. ie point gap, timing setting, good coil, good condenser.
We would like to hear the ultimate answer here. Please report back.

[30ccpickup]

Backfiring Under Load (throttle wide open at relatively low rpm’s) often indicates a problem in electrical/ignition/timing.

Culprits include:

Insufficient point gap (should be set at .018 to .020)
Timing
Bad condenser
Bad distributor body
Frayed wire between upper plate and lower plate on the distributor
Intermittent connection of the ignition switch

As Mitch said I, would start with point gap.

[William Kelchner]

Ok you guys thanks. I shall go through everything over the weekend, saving the carb for last, hopefully the culprit will be identified. I replaced the dist with an original type from Bratton's, the Zenith was also purchased from them, all this about 2 years ago. I also replaced the timing gear around that time.

I shall report back. Thanks again.

[diomed]

I've heard of this happening with bad muffler. A baffle collapses inside and restricts the exhaust flow. It'll start and rev in neutral just fine. Once you put it under a load it has no power. It's very rare but sometimes it happens.

Originally Posted by William Kelchner

...One thing that stumps me is the car will idle great, rev the he$$ out of it and it is flawless, but don't try to drive it. Oh well - thanks for the responses. Have a good weekend.

[Quigley1930]

Bill, I'll meet you in Marshall at the Ford dealer and we will get 'er done

Sewall

[William Kelchner]

Thanks Quigly, I can always count on you

[William Kelchner]

Well installed new points (orig style), the others did not look well and seen better days. Re-timed, checked spark (Tesla would be proud) Tried to make it around the block, almost made it but coughed several times. Carb tomorrow, another trip around the block. If no better there will be a lot more room in the garage. Have a good weekend.....

Bill K

[Tom Wesenberg]

Never give up..................it's such a good feeling when you find the problem.

[700rpm]

Condenser.

[William Kelchner]

Originally Posted by 700rpm

Condenser.

I have a "burn-out Proof" condenser, so the catalogue said. I replaced my dist several years ago with a rebuilt one from Brattons, it had the cap installed. Tnx

[Art Newland]

Are you sure the fuel flow is OK? Too lean a fuel mixture for what ever reason can cause low power/backfiring. I took a very short video of my fuel flow after flushing my fuel tank and adding a new filter screen above the shut-off valve. I thought it was OK too, at first. Once I started getting it running better and producing more power it wasn't getting enough fuel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAUI8MWo_Io

[William Kelchner]

Thanks Art. Yep my fuel flow is robust, disassembled the Zenith today, clean as a whistle, blew everything anyway. Did not go for a ride as it is in the high 90's. I plan a compression test tomorrow and that will do it, told the wife to cancel her Father's Day gift order (car cover for the A)..... Cheers and thanks for all the suggestions.

[30ccpickup]

Devorce is to easy, she is testing you. There is nothing in the relationship that cannot be overcome, it just takes work and understanding. I love my mother's favorite quote, "it is easy once known". You have a simple problem that can be overcome, it will only happen once because next time you will know the answer. Be patient work it through, except the challenge.

[Mitch//pa]

What happened to Quigley's offer of help?

[William Kelchner]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

What happened to Quigley's offer of help?

I will probably be sending up the "Bat" signal! Quigley has been a great help believe me, he was over the other day and gave me a test stand for checking the float level on Zenith carbs, unfortunately I ran out of handss trying to use it. I emailed him a little while ago and waiting for his response. The man definitely know his A's. I hate to keep badgering him for help. I really appreciate all the advice from you guys believe me. Cheers

[art ebeling]

The same was happening to my friends 30 coupe. It ended up that the the fuel supply was restricted by rust and sediment coming from the tank. We pushed a wire thru the fitting at the firewall. The lean mixture caused the backfiring.

[William Kelchner]

Quigly is having a back issue and will make it over here in a few days. I have a question on checking the float on this Zenith. Is it possible to just drop the
bottom portion of the carb, let the top attached to the intake, put a glass jar under the float pressed against the rim of the top part of the carb, turn on the fuel and measure it that way?

[700rpm]

Originally Posted by William Kelchner

Quigly is having a back issue and will make it over here in a few days. I have a question on checking the float on this Zenith. Is it possible to just drop the
bottom portion of the carb, let the top attached to the intake, put a glass jar under the float pressed against the rim of the top part of the carb, turn on the fuel and measure it that way?

Yes.

[Bill Cal.]

Just for the heck of it I would check to see if the manifold and bolts above carb are tight. Bill

[Terry, NJ]

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This is for another time, another problem, but it's good to know. A couple of weeks ago, I was having similar symptoms and it turned out to be old gas tank rust. A plug in the carb intake, a plug in the fuel line. a plug in the sediment bowl and a plug in the shutoff valve. But not much in the sediment bowl. That's what kept me stupid! I couldn't see much in the bowl. When I finally decided to go after a fuel solution, I disconnected the fuel line and the gas did not even drip out. So I figured it was empty and I put a little gas in the tank. Still nothing,,,,,, Hmmmmm This means something! When I got all those little plugs out of the gas supply, trust me, it made a difference. What I didn't know was that those rust plugs could jam everything up like that and still seem like rust in the tank was not a problem. There was not enough in the bowl to indicate what was really happening. BUT the shut off valve was getting hard to turn. It was scored and all crapped up when I took it apart. Before reassembly, I lapped the two parts in the drill press, now they're sealed and they work a lot easier.
Terry

[Tom Wesenberg]

My 28 did a lot of backfiring when my repro ignition switch had poor contacts. I found the problem one day when I noticed the engine died as soon as I touched the key to turn it off. I took the switch apart and spent a couple hours making better contacts for it. No more backfires.

[Quigley1930]

I just contacted Bill and as he mentioned my back has gone south and the rest of me is trying to go north. I told him I went to a show today in my truck and it ran great. I told him I would bring the carb and dist to him and try one at a time and see how the "beast" does. I feel we are running in circles and chasing our tails now. If it still acts up then we can go deeper in the boiler room and see what going on. I know he's frustrated but I am convinced the damn car will run to his satisfaction. Patience is my long suit As for my back I'm looking for a grease fitting and some of Tom W's magic grease

Sewall

[CT Jack]

Have you checked the throttle shaft on the carb for wear? If this shaft is badly warn you might be sucking a lot air inplace of fuel. Either install a new shaft or install new shaft bushings with a new shaft.

[hangarb7]

Funny, I have had several of those burn-out proof condensers. When I got the unknown slight overheating problem solved, the burn-out proof condenser has lasted several years. Still keep a spare in the tool box. Your symptoms were exactly what was happening to me. Timing, points and condenser. Never touched the carb.

JackD

[William Kelchner]

Yes that claim of burn-out proof sticks in the back of my mind, something about the Titanic being unsinkable At any rate I do not have a spare but it is worth a shot to order a new one from Bratton's.

Thanks

[William Kelchner]

Please observe a moment of silence for my Model A. Re-timed, new points, new condenser and now it sounds much better but shuts itself off after a few minutes like fuel starvation. Until Quigly arrives with a different carb the car car is on day-to-day residence here. The camera made the stone guard look wierd.

[30ccpickup]

In the end if all else fails, I take my A to a hot rod show and say, "Hey, this could be you". Works every time.... Hang in there. I have been there and done that.

[Mitch//pa]

After it shuts off, does it start right back up again? Or does it just crank

[tbirdtbird]

what is always left out of a story is what was done to the car just before it began acting up?

We had a guy write in to say he had a carb problem, but neglected to mention that just before that, he had messed with the dizzy, which is where his problem really was. It took a lot ofeffort and posts before we learned of this

[William Kelchner]

Going to meet Quigley this afternoon and pick up a known good carb and dist.
Hoping one of these is the culprit. Had it running yesterday but now it seems to run out of gas and just dies.

Fingers crossed

[George Miller]

Originally Posted by tbirdtbird

what is always left out of a story is what was done to the car just before it began acting up?

We had a guy write in to say he had a carb problem, but neglected to mention that just before that, he had messed with the dizzy, which is where his problem really was. It took a lot ofeffort and posts before we learned of this

Plus 1 But we will never win. The carb always gets the blame.

[wmws]

I know you said you had good gas flow but for how long. Possibly your gas cap is not venting. See if it will run longer with the gas cap loose. Just a thought.

[William Kelchner]

I swapped out the carb and started it up - idled great and after about 1 1/2 minutes shut itself down without fanfare, just as it would running out of gas. Started right back up. Checked fuel flow again (photograph). This is the same symptom on two different carbs - the end of the line into the carb looks ok, 1/8th inch from the end of the line in.

[tbirdtbird]

"1 1/2 minutes shut itself down without fanfare, just as it would running out of gas."
"same action with 2 diff carbs"

1 1/2 minutes is about how long a motor will run if you shut the main gas valve at the tank. In other words, until the bowl runs dry. You are not getting the fuel delivery you think you are; the bowl is not refilling.

Rig up a coffee can of gas hanging somehow with a tube/hose going to the carb inlet and see how long the motor will run. You could take a 1 # metal coffee can and solder a short copper tube to the bottom, and run a length of rubber fuel line to the carb inlet. Stay away from the manifolds. This will bypass the rest of the fuel storage/delivery system and give you a lot of info

[Quigley1930]

Bill see if you can rig up the can that's on the test stand I gave you. It has the proper fitting for the car inlet. You may gave to get some more hose. Dump what gas is in my tank and try to find some ethanol free gas. The Esso station in Marshall has it. If this cures the problem you can now make it to the show and will only owe me many many nickels

Sewall

[William Kelchner]

Ok Quig I shall work on that. What is odd now with
two different carb's it has done the same thing. Starts,
runs for min or so, has momentary stumble then shuts off
like running out of gas. Now it will not restart. Using regular
gas in the thing now. I shall try again today. Thanks

[Tom Wesenberg]

As soon as it dies jump out and hold the coil wire 1/4" from a head nut, key ON, push the starter rod and see if you have a good blue snappy spark. A weak yellow spark is a problem.

[William Kelchner]

Thanks Tom I'll give that a whirl....

[William Kelchner]

Well what started out to be seeking a cure to my car coughing back through the carb has now mutated to something else. The coughing back through the carb has plagued me since I bought this car 7-8 years ago not sure. At any rate here is what has been done to date:

Replaced carb with known good one
re-timed
new points (orig style)
new condenser
fuel flow looks good to me (photo)
gas cap vented
regular gas
nice blue spark


Now for the last several days and 5 or 6 starts the car runs and after 1 minute 20 seconds dies like it is out of gas. This is a new problem. After the engine dies . with the exception of one restart, it restarts again, runs briefly and dies again from the same symptom. I mean it is like the fuel bowl being drained after a minute twenty seconds. I'm getting ready to chuck in the towel

I do not have a vacuum port on the intake but I'm starting to feel this has to be vacuum related. At this point I keep getting further away from the original problem of the coughing carb.....

[Tom Wesenberg]

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As soon as it starts to die give the choke a pull and see if it picks up again.

[William Kelchner]

Nope tried that, it is intent on shutting down. Was thinking maybe the intake gasket may have gone south but then again it prob would not run for that brief period. It seems like its on a timer

[bunnyc]

I hesitate to make a suggestion here, I'm not as experienced as those who are trying to help. But, I would check the torque on the intake gasket nuts and the condition of the gasket.
BunnyC

[mshmodela]

Originally Posted by William Kelchner

Ok Quig I shall work on that. What is odd now with
two different carb's it has done the same thing. Starts,
runs for min or so, has momentary stumble then shuts off
like running out of gas. Now it will not restart. Using regular
gas in the thing now. I shall try again today. Thanks

So it's not the carb. If two are making no difference. Sure sound like electrical... I am learning these old cars are magnetic for moisture on everything, fuel in the tank, all electrial contacts. Once you figure this out, drive your car at least 3 times a week --your car will thank you by running better... Mine has.... Good luck... And try to use 100% gasoline...

[Mitch//pa]

Does it die out after moving the spark lever down? Then restart after moving the lever back up?
In other words does the spark lever have any effect of when it stalls

[Tom Wesenberg]

I agree with Mike that it sounds like something electrical.

Have you tried another ignition cable, such as the emergency bypass the dealers sell?

It would be a handy item to keep in your tool box, if you don't already have one.

[tbirdtbird]

you'll be a first class Model A mechanic when it is all over .
Too bad the other issue has been there for a full 7 yrs

Are there any club members who can assist you? Do NOT give up.
What is lacking is some rock-solid diagnostics. So far it sounds like stuff is just being replaced........This is very hard for us at this distance. If some of the regulars here could get their hands on the car it would be diagnosed in 10 minutes.
For example, get an in-line spark tester from a NAPA or Oreilly or online so that you can SEE the spark, put it in series with the coil wire, and then when the motor dies you can visually be checking the spark at the same time

Go here, the best 10 bucks you will ever spend:
https://www.amazon.com/Lisle-20610-I...e+spark+tester

Local NAPA, OReilly etc might have it on the shelf

If we all gave up there would be a huge pile of dead Model As in the middle of the Arizona desert right next to the airplane graveyard. You own a piece of history, one that will never be manufactured again...........

if the 4 manifold nuts are tight (30 ft lbs, do NOT overtighten) then it is prolly NOT a vacuum problem

[JOHN CT]

Here's a thought. Could the coil be over heating? In a short period of time. Is that possible?

[Mitch//pa]

I always preach to use a spark tester.. The one t-bird posted is good...snap-on sells the same one in the blue point line for more than double that

[tbirdtbird]

"Could the coil be over heating? In a short period of time. Is that possible?"

If so, it would not cool down quickly enough for the restart he mentions.

The time for guessing is over, the need for hard core diagnostics is screaming from the tree tops.........
Some of these issues are a full 7 years old.........

[Mitch//pa]

If he has AAA premier 200 miles free , I am 190 miles away

[Quigley1930]

Bill, I have the device that Tom mentions. Might be worth a try.

[Dick Steinkamp]

It may not BE the same, but it SOUNDS like the same problem documented in the May/June Restorer.

[tbirdtbird]

you got yours already????

[Dick Steinkamp]

Originally Posted by tbirdtbird

you got yours already????

My bad. I mean the May/June issue. Page 12 "Solving an Intermittent Ignition Problem"

[William Kelchner]

Quigley loaned me a transparent dist cap - I shall focus on ignition today and let you know the results. Thanks for all the guidance ---- cheers

[mshmodela]

Originally Posted by William Kelchner

Quigley loaned me a transparent dist cap - I shall focus on ignition today and let you know the results. Thanks for all the guidance ---- cheers

A clear top was the best little thing I added to my car.. being a newbie, it helps


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X18Yv6-1rso

When I had bum condenser --you can see the larger than normal arcing at the points...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX_P-pLC04w

Once you have a clear top, take a looks and I'd frankly keep it on.. you'll learn what the proper size of the cap sparks are and those a the points... if you see things abnormal, once you get a feel, you might be able to resolve it faster...

[William Kelchner]

Thanks for the reply. Checked voltages and it is good everywhere. Tomorrow I am bypassing the fuel system and going directly into the carb and see what happens. Cheers

Bill K

[Bill Cal.]

I think Bunny C has good advice. Check the intake gaskets and nuts. I had a problem years ago where the engine would idle and go a short distance just fine and then would crap out. Once it cooled down I could go a bit farther again. Turned out it was a lose intake manifold nuts.
Bill

[William Kelchner]

Does anyone have a link to how to fabricate a DIRTY LEG fuel valve with the specs? Quigley made a house call and we had the thing running on a external tank today. Thanks


Bill K

[CarlG]

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Originally Posted by William Kelchner

Does anyone have a link to how to fabricate a DIRTY LEG fuel valve with the specs? Quigley made a house call and we had the thing running on a external tank today. Thanks


Bill K

Do a search for "Dirty Leg". Pictures, specs, etc will pop up.

[bunnyc]

http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/kellyshutoff.htm

[William Kelchner]

Thanks much I just removed the shut off valve and the
little pencil filter that rests on top and it was all clean
as a whistle Cheers

Bill K

[bobd]

Have you checked the gas I had a very similar problem ansd it turned out to be the gas. Drained it out put in new gas and it's over a year now it's been fine

[Rancho Deluxe]

By any chance you have a Radiator cap on the gas tank ??..

[gweilbaker]

...or a plugged exhaust?

[William Kelchner]

Thanks for the suggestions, going to take it out and see what happens. It was running normal yesterday (static) but it has done this before, suck me way from the house and let me sit We checked everything up and down. Thanks

[tbirdtbird]

float valve sticking?
run some MMO in the tank 4oz per tankful
modern 'fuel' very dry, dries out rubber, neoprene, viton, etc

good for valves, too

if you get stuck take large handled plastic screwdriver with you, and rap on carb with plastic end, will sometimes (often) free up a stuck float valve

[William Kelchner]

Who rebuilds these Zenith carbs ??

We tried everything under the sun except for the right thing obviously

I guess I will donate the car to an automotive tech school. The school can use it for the final exam. Get the thing running normal and you pass with flying colors... Oh, don't forget to notify the two older gentlemen what it was.......you all have a nice weekend.

Cheers
Bill K

[Mitch//pa]

Since nobody local can seem to help you out,,, Get it up to me .. I'm not that far...

I can get it with my enclosed but that's a two way trip and time

[tbirdtbird]

go get it, Mitch....

if two diff carbs do the exact same thing, ie run for 1.5 min then shut down, then can both carbs be built identically wrong?

There is a clog in the line somewhere.
Fuel line hitting the back of the carb because it is pushed too far into the ferrule?

Remove all lines and using blowgun clean'em out good.
Be certain there is not a stackup of filters....you only need ONE.
reinstall lines. Leave carb end off. Put carb end into container, open tank valve, let a full gallon flow thru and observe, with gas cap off.
If this works, do it again with gas cap on, observe.

You said you got it to run with an external tank!!!!! What does this tell you about your on board fuel system??!! There is something wrong there, so why now blame the carbs

and BTW an automotive tech school will have absolutely NO idea how to do anything on that car

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by tbirdtbird

go get it, Mitch....

if two diff carbs do the exact same thing, ie run for 1.5 min then shut down, then can both carbs be built identically wrong?

There is a clog in the line somewhere.
Fuel line hitting the back of the carb because it is pushed too far into the ferrule?

Remove all lines and using blowgun clean'em out good.
Be certain there is not a stackup of filters....you only need ONE.
reinstall lines. Leave carb end off. Put carb end into container, open tank valve, let a full gallon flow thru and observe, with gas cap off.
If this works, do it again with gas cap on, observe.

You said you got it to run with an external tank!!!!! What does this tell you about your on board fuel system??!! There is something wrong there, so why now blame the carbs

and BTW an automotive tech school will have absolutely NO idea how to do anything on that car

You got that right ..they would ruin the car in a New York minute

[William Kelchner]

Originally Posted by tbirdtbird

go get it, Mitch....

if two diff carbs do the exact same thing, ie run for 1.5 min then shut down, then can both carbs be built identically wrong?

There is a clog in the line somewhere.
Fuel line hitting the back of the carb because it is pushed too far into the ferrule?

Remove all lines and using blowgun clean'em out good.
Be certain there is not a stackup of filters....you only need ONE.
reinstall lines. Leave carb end off. Put carb end into container, open tank valve, let a full gallon flow thru and observe, with gas cap off.
If this works, do it again with gas cap on, observe.

You said you got it to run with an external tank!!!!! What does this tell you about your on board fuel system??!! There is something wrong there, so why now blame the carbs

and BTW an automotive tech school will have absolutely NO idea how to do anything on that car

The two carbs acted different. We replaced my Z with another Z, both were dripping gas. The car would only run for the 1.5 min on the replacement carb, when I put my "rebuilt Z" back on it would not shut off but carry on with the snorting through the carb. The other day Quigely had it running decent but today doing the same thing.

I/We have done the following:

swapped dist's
swapped carb's
new upper plate on my rebuilt orig dist
new condenser
checked every voltage on the car
checked plugs/coil with inline tester/dist sparking well/coil appears good
drained tank fresh straight gas in it
fuel shut off valve and pencil filter removed and were clean
good fuel flow
jiggled everything we could jiggle when it was running the other day
compression all cyls 61 to 65
Quigley threatened it with a large hammer
gas cap vented

I am still convinced the Zenith I bought from one of our vendors several years ago, advertised as rebuilt, is playing a leading role in this drama. I figured this may be the time to send it off to reputable Zenith guru.

Thanks cheers

[1crosscut]

Have your tried spraying starting fluid all around the intake / exhaust manifold when it is running? If the engine speed changes when you do you have an intake manifold leak.

[William Kelchner]

Ok tomorrow I shall try the starter fluid while it is running, albeit badly. Then take the Z apart again and get some wire to run through the passages. As far as the dist lower plate we had a clear dist cap on and did not see any obvious intermittent spark. I blew the Z out but if the lower passages are dirty my compressor probably would not blow them clean. Thanks

[William Kelchner]

Ok will do. Its getting to the point I can take this stuff with my eyes closed..
Cheers

[Quigley1930]

Bill your answer is 20 miles away. Take the beast to White Post restorations and for a few dollars and a years wait you will have solved the problem!

We had the car running daxx good for twenty minutes the other day until the gas ran out of the auxillary tank. I told him to remove the shut off valve and when he told me all looked clean I thought we had tamed the beast. When I got home I put the carb I loaned him on my coup and with no leaks it started right up and I went for a ten mile trouble free ride. I'm getting frustrated as is Bill but I AIN'T giving up. I know a good local carb man who can do what Vince suggested and pass this on to Bill.

this post is getting to the point where it's good summer reading

Sewall

[tbirdtbird]

"We had the car running daxx good for twenty minutes the other day until the gas ran out of the auxillary tank."

Then how can it be carb problem??

"When I got home I put the carb I loaned him on my coup and with no leaks it started right up and I went for a ten mile trouble free ride"

Then how can it be a carb problem??

Information is being gained from a diagnostic maneuver, but you are taking those results and going somewhere else with the information you are getting.
I don't understand.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by tbirdtbird

"We had the car running daxx good for twenty minutes the other day until the gas ran out of the auxillary tank."

Then how can it be carb problem??

"When I got home I put the carb I loaned him on my coup and with no leaks it started right up and I went for a ten mile trouble free ride"

Then how can it be a carb problem??

Information is being gained from a diagnostic maneuver, but you are taking those results and going somewhere else with the information you are getting.
I don't understand.

Me either and why limit it to the shut off valve?

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by forever4

I may make a run over from Culpeper to Warrenton if this keeps up.

My offers of help were ignored (first was #56) (second #75), not even an acknowledgment,
Or a thanks for the offers

[Tom Wesenberg]

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Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

My offers of help were ignored (first was #56) (second #75), not even an acknowledgment,
Or a thanks for the offers

No good deed goes unpunished.

[ddweave]

I suggest trying a different ignition coil. They can do some strange things when they are failing.

[tbirdtbird]

Mitch, just toss a few tools in the back of the truck and head on over there and get'er done. The barners will chip in for your service charge. Today would be a good day, your shop is closed on Sundays, any way. That will be less than 400 miles on the road, and 10 minutes to fix it, so road time of 6 hrs at 60 mph, shop time minimum 1 hr, so your rate times 7 hrs, and he won't have to give the car up

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by tbirdtbird

Mitch, just toss a few tools in the back of the truck and head on over there and get'er done. The barners will chip in for your service charge. Today would be a good day, your shop is closed on Sundays, any way. That will be less than 400 miles on the road, and 10 minutes to fix it, so road time of 6 hrs at 60 mph, shop time minimum 1 hr, so your rate times 7 hrs, and he won't have to give the car up

We're closed Saturday's also.

[30ccpickup]

He is learning. Sometimes it gets discouraging on both ends when something is being taught.

[William Kelchner]

Hey Hey guys. Despite not responding to each post let me state I really appreciate and thank everyone for their input.

This has gotten to the point I seem to be playing the fool. Therefore, until I stumble across the solution I think it best I refrain for any further posting on this problem.

Again my gratitude for the encouragement and suggestions.

Bill K

[George Miller]

Originally Posted by William Kelchner

Hey Hey guys. Despite not responding to each post let me state I really appreciate and thank everyone for their input.

This has gotten to the point I seem to be playing the fool. Therefore, until I stumble across the solution I think it best I refrain for any further posting on this problem.

Again my gratitude for the encouragement and suggestions.

Bill K

I have to say my response was in the wrong place. It was not pointed at any one person. That is why I pulled it.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Bill, we need your feedback to figure out the problem. Or should I say the solution to the problem.

[William Kelchner]

It's ALIVE It's ALIVE. To make a long story short I took the bottom plate off the dist. I noticed the Bus Bar (I guess you can call it that) had a round hole which lined up with the condenser but it was not connected to the condenser therefore taking it out of the circuit. Connected it back up, started it up and drove (for the first time) 5 trouble free miles, no hint of coughing back through the carb.

I replaced the float valve also and got the float level correct which was not that far off.

My daughter volunteered to ride along and the first thing she said Mom keep your cell on so we can call for help..

So far so good, I'll take a longer trip tomorrow to satisfy myself. Again thanks for all the help on the forum. Really appreciate it

[Hook]

Bill, Glad you found the problem. Did you put that fiber washer between the screw and condenser? If not, it might short to the body of the distributor.

[William Kelchner]

Yep - thanks

[700rpm]

I refer you back to posts #2 & #15.

[William Kelchner]

Originally Posted by 700rpm

I refer you back to posts #2 & #15.

Yes I was about to PM you on this very issue as you seemed convinced it was condenser related My hat is off to you sir....Cheers

Bill K

[William Kelchner]

I also shall never forget the words of wisdom which reminded me "most carb problems are electrical All I can say I did not know much about my A but after this we are intimate......

[700rpm]

Originally Posted by William Kelchner

Yes I was about to PM you on this very issue as you seemed convinced it was condenser related My hat is off to you sir....Cheers

Bill K

Just glad you got it fixed, Bill. We want our cars running for the summer!

[saintjoelarry]

Originally Posted by kenparker

In the model A world 85% of the carburetor problems are electrically generated.

Originally Posted by 700rpm

If this just started, I would suspect it's not the carb. My first thought is condenser.

First, glad you found the problem. It sure can be frustrating when you're looking for the solution, but it sure is rewarding when you find it.

I couldn't agree more with these two gentleman.

My model A was running very rich. I kept adjusting the float until I could barely get any gas flow, yet the exhaust still smelled rich. I replaced the jet cap with the smallest I could find. Still ran rich.

I checked the timing a few times, each time confirmed it was correct.

Finally, when I was checking the timing once, when I rotated the cam nut to open the points, I did not get a spark. I tried again and got a spark. I did this about 20 times, and got a spark probably 80% of the time, but not every time. I checked and found some carbon build up on the points. Filed them down a bit, checked the gap, and presto. Runs perfectly.

So as you say, my "carburetor problem" was electrical.

[tbirdtbird]

the lower dizzy plate, the condenser, and the pigtail are very trouble prone and should be the first place for ppl to look.

Once they have been restored back to the way Henry intended they are actually very trouble free

[700rpm]

"Once they have been restored back to the way Henry intended they are actually very trouble free."

There it is, right there, truth for many if not most of the problems we discuss here.