Whats happening here

[William Kelchner]

Was replacing the battery cables and thought I would take a cursory look under the car and here is what I saw What am I looking at here? It looks like some sort of grease retainer but a piece of whatever it is sticking out the rear and a large piece at the lower front.

[28RPU]

That looks like the wishbone pivot to me. It looks like its just leaking grease out of it. I think there is a rubber or leather retainer in there if I recall. Maybe someone else here knows for sure. I would not worry about it too much. Aren't these old As supposed to leak?
I would fix it though.

[lookin-backtexas]

William:
It looks like a part Model A'ers used to install which fit inside the wishbone retainer cap to take up slack on worn out wishbone balls. It might have shifted inside the holder and is trying to come out. If the radius ball is loose in the ball cup, a shim can be made from a fender washer by using a ball peen hammer to shape the washer to fit the bottom curvature of the ball; maybe someone added one over the years.
Fred

[Tom Bellfoy]

it looks like the rubber and upper cap portion has been squished out and badly in need of replacement.

[RUNNERBUN]

Looks like someone used a replacement neoprene ball under an original Ball Cap to take up wear in the radius ball. It looks like the neoprene ball has failed. Check out Snyders on Line catalog part no A-3440-RE for the replacement style cap and part no. A-3440-S for the original style.

[Patrick L.]

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I agree with some of the others. The radius rod socket needs to come apart and looked at. What does the material that is sticking out from the cap made of ? It looks to be rubber/neoprene. If it is, it doesn't belong there as the socket appears to be the original type.
Just drop the bottom cap and take a look. The radius ball should be round and 1.5" dia. It is common to use a large flat/fender washer to take up years of wear. So, if the material is metal/steel then thats normal except for its being worn out and in need of replacement.
The vendors have all the replacement parts.
Welcome to the world of Model A'ing. You're certainly being introduced thru trial by fire.

[William Kelchner]

Guess I can tackle replacing this thing. It appears to be rubber/neoprene and most of it is hanging out of the cup as you can see. Yes trial by fire is an understatement. One step forward two backward - as I have asked before what horrors and what could possibly go wrong replacing this ball ?? I barely recovered from the dist replacement, valve cover off, disassemble the exhaust clamp to get the valve cover bolt, intermittent battery cable.

My wife checks in on me more than usual - suspects I have a sweety hidden in the garage I spent so much time there the past few weeks.

On the other hand the car starts and runs great now(static) and Purdy Swofts words still ring in my ear "LOOK AT THIS AS FUN"

[redmodelt]

Someone used the replacement rubber ball cover without the correct sockets? Could be why the springs are in the wrong place. If the ball is not real worn, take it apart, clean and reassemble with the springs on the outside like they should be. Also good time to make sure the felt is in place, there should be one just above the hole and under the pin that keeps the bolts from turning.

[William Kelchner]

So let me get this straight - this is the first mention of "felts". Assuming the ball cup in my photos should jive with the breakdown shown in the Mechanics Handbook. From the bottom up nut/cotter pin, springs, spacers, lower cup and upper cup. The felts you mention I presume are to retain oil.

Is my assembly, albeit assembled wrong, original and just assembled or a home brew assembly.....? Thanks

[Bob C]

This is what should be in there.

Bob

[SteveB31]

Your assembly is correct but installed wrong and containing one piece it should not have.

Throw away the rubber piece that is squeezing out.

Remove the bottom cup. Remove the springs and spacers. Reinstall the lower cup, THEN install the springs and spacers UNDER the lower cap, then the two nuts. After this is all together, make sure you cannot move the wishbone ups and down. It should be able to pivot , but not be loose up and down. If it is loose up and down you need a shim.

Make sense?

Steve Becker
Berts Model A Center
www.modelastore.com

[SteveB31]

The felt goes up inside the hole. Usually installed from the inside when the trans is out. The purpose of the felt is to absorb some of the oil that leaks out of the front of the transmission to keep that assemble oiled. Doesn't look like your is lacking in lubrication, so really the felt is not too important since you have lubrication (leaking from above).

[William Kelchner]

Thanks to everybody for their inputs - I'll get this problem fixed and hopefully this will be it.

Don't see how you can own one of these machines without this site. Got to meet a Model A'er who lives close by and has bailed me out at least three times. I can spend the better part of a day timing my machine and he walks in and does it in 5 minutes.

At any rate best of holidays to everybody and again for all the help

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by SteveB31

Your assembly is correct but installed wrong and containing one piece it should not have.

Throw away the rubber piece that is squeezing out.

Remove the bottom cup. Remove the springs and spacers. Reinstall the lower cup, THEN install the springs and spacers UNDER the lower cap, then the two nuts. After this is all together, make sure you cannot move the wishbone ups and down. It should be able to pivot , but not be loose up and down. If it is loose up and down you need a shim.

Make sense?

Steve Becker
Berts Model A Center
www.modelastore.com

Yo, Steverino, Dog here, I saw yo' shim thingy, some HORRENDOUS price, like $1.78 ur $1.97, ur sumptin' like that! Order 6 & give them to friends fur their BURTHDAY! See if they kin figger out whut their for Buster T.

[700rpm]

Mr. Kelchner, this is a relatively simple procedure. Follow SteveB31's instructions and you should be done in about 20 minutes start to finish.

[tbirdtbird]

you may need to use a bottle jack to jack the wishbone back up into place, just to let you know.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Years ago, Chief used 1 or 2 circles of thick leather & greased the ball well. He said oil from the upper felt would gradually soak into the leather & the leather lasted a long time, even with a worn ball. Bill W.

[antiquepa]

Springs our on the wrong side of the nut, cup 1st, over the ball, then springs, nuts.!!

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by William Kelchner

Thanks to everybody for their inputs - I'll get this problem fixed and hopefully this will be it.

[William Kelchner]

Got me Mike V - got me laughing good... I put a jack under the front. (was this called the wishbone back in the day?? The ball has mucho verticle play. I hope the ball can be fixed with the washer trick......if not, am I doomed ?

[1931 flamingo]

You won't be "doomed". Anything on these can be repaired/rebuilt/replaced, etc.
Keep asking questions. What books/manuals do you have. Parts catalogs have a wealth of information in them.
Paul in CT

[Patrick L.]

Its not a hard fix, as mentioned. You don't even have to 'warp' a washer any more, the vendors have them now.

I got a kick out of Mikes response. When you finish this little repair, that will be it. That is until the next problem pops up, don't worry that won't take long !

[William Kelchner]

I have concluded that a sense of humor is a prerequisite for Model A ownership. I have the Andersen Model A Mechanic and as you correctly stated most of the catalogs have a breakdown of just about anything. But nothing replaces the wealth of personal experience found on the Forum.

So here we go again - hopefully this repair will be uneventful. Again thanks

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by William Kelchner

I have concluded that a sense of humor is a prerequisite for Model A ownership. I have the Andersen Model A Mechanic and as you correctly stated most of the catalogs have a breakdown of just about anything. But nothing replaces the wealth of personal experience found on the Forum.

So here we go again - hopefully this repair will be uneventful. Again thanks

HUMOR, you say, W.K, Dog here, YEP! Humor is good & Model A'ing's s'posed to be fun & it's hard to KUSS, whin you're LAFFIN' We try to make "humor" BUT we ain't HIGH PAID komedians & SO, jist recomember thet you gettin' it for FREE, (GRATIS!)--(Gregg tole me thet wurd, he's smart, he does X-WORD puzzle thingys, while he's indisposed, (Whatever thet wurd means) Buster T.

[Richard Wilson]

A good sense of humor will serve you well in all things. Very important to remember that our Model A's are 80 plus year old USED CARS, most of which were driven hard and put up wet.

[William Kelchner]

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Here we go again. Disassembled the radius ball assembly. Got one of the special washers to insert and remove any slop. I have the original assembly, put the washer in the bottom half of the cup. Reassembled the cup using the spacers, springs and castle nuts.

I notice the special washer is not notched to accommodate fitting over the stalk of the radius ball. The directions in the parts catalog state tighten the castle nuts to the spacer and then back off in order to install the cotter pins. Well with the springs I will never tighten the nuts to the bottom on the spacer.

Moreover, when I start tightening the nuts the washer/spacer I installed starts to ride up the back of the ball toward the top half of the cup.. Is this ok? I understand there will be a gap between top and bottom halves of the ball cup but as soon as i start tightening the special washer begins its travel.

The photos I included at the start of this thread showed the thing was assembled incorrectly by someone in the past. It was stuffed with heavy leather that was oozing out of the cup.

[Tom Wesenberg]

As long as the springs keep pressure on the ball and you have a gap between the upper and lower halves you should be good to go without the washer.

[Mitch//pa]

i have never used the washer but i thought it went on the top side, thats why it has a hole in it for the oil to come through...
as tom said try it without also....

[tbirdtbird]

try without. it was put together wrong the first time

[Bob C]

The cap in your original picture just doesn't look right to me, it looks to thick.
Look at the picture I have in post #10, the hole in the cap should be big enough
for the sleeves to fit through. I think the ball should be 1 1/2", if it is close to
that I would try it without the washer like tbirdtbird suggested.

Bob

[Tom Wesenberg]

I also thought the cap looked too thick, but it didn't quite look like the cast iron cap that came on my Tudor. Make sure the cap pocket is the correct size for the 1 1/2" ball.

When people used the rubber cover then the cap was made for a larger diameter and all I've seen were cast iron.

[western77]

The bottom cap looks a lot thicker than the top cap. It sure looks like a cast iron cap to me.

[BillLee/Chandler, TX]

I did R&R on the radius ball on my '29 Tudor a year or so ago. It had one of the after-market rubber sleeve caps on it, and I replaced it with a stock-style version with one of the extra washers. You can find the report with many pictures at my club's website

http://www.cedarcreekas.org/TechTopi...sBallRandR.pdf

The pictures show the cast iron socket that holds the rubber sleeve and radius ball, and also the stock version. There is a LOT of difference.

IMHO, post 1 in this thread shows the cast iron caps, improperly assembled. (There weren't any springs in the assembly on my Tudor.)

[William Kelchner]

Ok here are photos of the cup --- One is definitely thicker than the other..

[Mitch//pa]

wasn't the replacement caps that use the rubber ball thicker?

[Bob C]

After seeing the pictures the parts look right.
Here is a picture of the rubber ball type.

Bob

[Purdy Swoft]

Originally Posted by William Kelchner

Ok here are photos of the cup --- One is definitely thicker than the other..

The parts pictured appear to be original style. Reusing the pictured parts and setting them up correctly will be the easy fix. I use the replacement style setup with the rubber ball and think it is a better idea because the original metal to metal setup tends to wear out and can contribute to front end shimmy. Being as most model A's aren't used for primary transportation,wear on the radius ball won't be as big of a problem. The replacement setup uses longer bolts to compensate for the extra thickness of the thicker cups. If you changed to the replacement setup, the two longer bolts in the bell housing would have to be replaced. I know that you've already had problems and replacing the longer bolts can be tricky. If the radius ball is in pretty good shape, the original setup will probably be your easiest bet. If it is too tight with the cupped washer, then don't use the washer.

[William Kelchner]

Well true Purdy, car does not get many miles on it, I normally drive my 64 Impala convert, that way I know I'll make it home (not meant to be inflamatory), I like my 30, but the last 4 trips (under 10 miles) did not end well. 2 with total lack of power, one with total lack of power and fuel pouring out of my fairly new Zenith, and 1 trip on a roll back -- so I am suffering from a total lack of confidence. So new rebuilt dist with original setup, no overheating issues, timed to your specs, radius ball (to be completed tonight with the original stuff).

Looking at the radius ball cup the top piece really looks strange with that extended lip, but not having seen an original guess someone here would have mentioned it.

So, I'm going in, come what may. Supposed to be nice Sunday. I will take the car out for a ride but as always have one hand on the ejection seat lever. Thanks for the inputs. Have a great weekend.

[William Kelchner]

Ok its back together - gotta run out and buy some cotter pins. I put the modified washer on top. Prior to starting all this I had considerable up and down movement at the joint - I have none now. Of course the thing was put together incorrectly by a previous owner.

Checked the radius ball and I've seen rounder concrete blocks...

I'll see if it drives any differently when I take it out Sat or Sunday. Thanks again.

[Timberbeast]

Originally Posted by William Kelchner

Well true Purdy, car does not get many miles on it, I normally drive my 64 Impala convert, that way I know I'll make it home (not meant to be inflamatory), I like my 30, but the last 4 trips (under 10 miles) did not end well. 2 with total lack of power, one with total lack of power and fuel pouring out of my fairly new Zenith, and 1 trip on a roll back -- so I am suffering from a total lack of confidence. So new rebuilt dist with original setup, no overheating issues, timed to your specs, radius ball (to be completed tonight with the original stuff).

Looking at the radius ball cup the top piece really looks strange with that extended lip, but not having seen an original guess someone here would have mentioned it.

So, I'm going in, come what may. Supposed to be nice Sunday. I will take the car out for a ride but as always have one hand on the ejection seat lever. Thanks for the inputs. Have a great weekend.

The Model A can be learning adventure. I've had my share over the years, I just take it in stride and never leave home with my AAA card.

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by William Kelchner

...- gotta run out and buy some cotter pins...

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...6284&showall=1

[William Kelchner]

Well my radius ball cap assembly looks like everyone else's so I must be close.

Thought I would start it up and celebrate the event ---- refuses to start, even try to start despite voltage, gas. Closed the hood, said a prayer for the car and wished it well wherever its new home will be.....

It was an adventure.

[Purdy Swoft]

Don't give up!!! It may be something simple like the points closed up. Many times a person may forget to tighten the locking screw on the points block. The engine will crank and run for a while and vibration will allow the points to close up and then It just won't start. It could be a loose ground screw where the condenser mounts on the manifold side of the distributor. If all of that checked out, it could be a faulty ammeter. If you've got a short length of wire with an alligator clip on each end, you can bypass the ammeter at the terminal box. If you hook an aligator clip with wire between the wing nuts on the terminal box this will bypass the ammeter. It could be a faulty ignition switch. I've had more than one of the low cost switches cause grief. This is just a few possibilities. We sometimes have to fight these things untill all of the little stuff is fixed, Then it will be dependable. Here is my roadster when I got it in 03. You have a nice looking roadster. It shouldn't take too much work to fix.

[tbirdtbird]

had you any mechanical experience before you bought the "A" ?

[Mitch//pa]

Maybe you can get some help in your area. Bud P here on the barn lives in va not sure how far from you but can steer you in the right direction or maybe to the right people in your area.

[William Kelchner]

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I'm going through this one more time this morning. Thanks for the tips. Mechanical experience, owned a few oldies in the past 31 Chevy, 35 Chevy, 28 Dodge Brothers and had my 64 front clip, engine, transmission out and down to the frame rails.

I'll bypass the ammeter, thats about the only thing I haven't tried. This thing ran and started nice for two straight days and last night decided to pull this stunt.

Hopefully something obvious will turn up. I'll let you know. Thanks again.

[William Kelchner]

Ok, checked my new rebuilt dist again, no shorts, 6v where it is supposed to be, pig tail good, but no spark when I open and close the points. Went in and had some coffee, about 40 minutes later went back and tried the spark test and had two healthy sparks, one weak spark and then nothing.

I dare say Reggie could this be a capacitor problem. As I mentioned a few times this is a newly rebuilt dist with original configuration. There is nothing left in the circuit other than the cap.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Most likely a poor electrical contact in the coil primary circuit, which includes the points contacts. After setting for several weeks in humid weather my 28 failed to give good spark while cranking with the electric starter, but fired right up with the hand crank. And this even happened after I cleaned the points contacts. Once it fired up by hand then the starter fired it right up just fine for the rest of the summer.

When I worked at the GM dealership some of the points wouldn't work, even new straight out of a sealed box. All it takes is a bit of skin oil from someone touching the contacts, or light corrosion from humidity. This is rarely a problem, but over the years I've had it happen a few times.

[V4F]

wash it so we can see !

[Quigley1930]

OK Bill, sounds like a switch problem. Try screwing the switch cable either in or out of the distributor just a little bit at a time. keep checking at the points with a test light. When and if the light comes on tap on the side of the distributor and see if the light comes on. Do all this with the switch on of course! Keep Jack or Grandad nearby either for despair or joy.

Sewall Tyler

[Purdy Swoft]

I usually run some fine sandpaper between the contacts, even with new points. Points can glaze over and the engine won't start. Could the armored cable be screwed in too far and shorting??? Unscrew the armored cable and test with the switch on to see if any juice is passing through the cable, by shorting it against a head nut. The problem could be a bad ignition switch.

[William Kelchner]

Ok gentlemen I'll give this a try..../

[William Kelchner]

Ok key on 6v at points arm, turn key off no 6v. Loosened the main cable to the dist and jiggled it around no problem there. I don't know what to try next, unless the point contacts are made of plastic or something I am out of options, as I stated prior occasionally I get a good spark when exercising the point arm so the problem is intermittent. In reading my Andersen's book no spark when operating the points points to the capacitor. Since I have no spare guess the problem will have to wait until I get one. Thanks for all the help.

[Bob C]

Make sure the flag on the wire is bent like the one in Marco's picture and
not touching the distributor body.

Bob

[tbirdtbird]

at least you have your problem narrowed down. Keep at it. Henry didn't provide much room in those dizzies. Lots of places to short stuff out. everything must be just right.
Tom, I have seen what you described many times....such as oil from fingertips contaminating new points, etc. Those point contacts must be really clean. Condensers are always suspect, always keep one or two spares.

I drove my original '28 Chevy into my car trailer one day and it would not start the next due to a thin film of corrosion overnight that of course was not visible. But that was in the very humid northeast. No probs like that in Texas.

If you have that experience with earlier cars you should be able to figure it out.

[William Kelchner]

Thanks - now the frustrating part having to order a part - I shall order several of them. I have one somewhere. After I had the car for a while I went to modern upper and lower dist plates but now I have no clue where I put the original stuff I took off. Probably same place as the fuse setup I bought and can't find...... Best of holidays.

[tbirdtbird]

get the heat resistant ones, Bratton's and others sell them

[William Kelchner]

Well found 2 original style caps in my shed - replaced the new one in my rebuilt dist - turned the key on and checked the points and I had the nicest blue sparking every time. I swear I heard trumpets one time..

Started it right up and everything seems normal.

Appreciate all the suggestions and efforts to keep me from jumping off the bridge

Tomorrow I shall take it out (raining/storms now).

[darrylkmc]

William Kelchner,

Excellent, glad to hear that you have it back up and running. Sure is worth having some extra, preferably original good condition, parts around.

I would still make sure that I have a spare condenser on hand, when they act up they seemingly cause all kinds of unexplained maladies.

Darryl in Fairbanks

[William Kelchner]

Thanks. Hopefully I can take this thing back out on the road tomorrow. Time to put all the tools away again..

[SteveB31]

Never give up!!! These cars can be frustrating, but overcoming these small problems , encountering a few more, overcoming them, and after a few more, you have a great , fun reliable car that , once you get these litlle things out of the way, will run well for years and years and you will enjoy most every minute of driving them, meeting new friends, and owning a piece of history!!!

[William Kelchner]

Reference my post #42.

Nice day out - started my roadster, backed out of the garage, took a spin up and down the cul-d-sac, all was well. I knew this thing was trying to lure me away from the house.

And for the 5th time I fell for it and barely made it home. Got 1 mile from the house, car running great and then that dreaded single cough from the carb as I was heading up a small hill. Anymore application of gas and I knew what would result. I made it home riding the clutch and sorry to say I shall not go through this scenario again..

No overheating
rebuilt dist
fresh gas
fairly new Zenith
behaves like a charm in the driveway but don't try getting too far from home..

Thanks for the use of your shoulder. To quote BB King the "Thrill is Gone" In my case it is the confidence in the car.....

Merry Christmas and HNY

[Purdy Swoft]

Merry Christmas, William.
Here is my thoughts. I figure that the rebuilt distributor from Bratton has the A&L condenser and that isn't likely the problem. I've had similar problems and it is MORE THAN LIKELY a bad coil or a bad ignition switch. I had to use the more expensive ignition switch from Bratton to get a switch that I could depend on. Part number 16330 on page 72, price $62.80. If the coil is the problem it will crank and run untill it gets warm or gets in a strain and will begin to break up and quit running. Usually when this happens the coil will be hot to the touch. Sometimes when this happens, if you feather the throttle just right yoiu can make it home. You are not the only one. I've had all of these problems at one time or another . You can probably pick up a coil locally. If you are still running six volt, you will want a 1.5 OHM coil. If you have upgraded to twelve volt you will need a 3.0 ohm coil. These coils are internally resisted and no ballast will be needed. Back in the day, coils were generally reffered to as either six or twelve volt, now it is rated in OHM . You will just have to bare with it untill the exact problem is found or hire it fixed. Sorry for the constant torment but a lot of us have been there, if we fooled with model A's long enough. Best wishes for the holidays

[William Kelchner]

Thanks again Purdy - I'll try another coil and drive up and down the street for an hour or two and see if I can get this to happen within walking distance. This time I made it a mile.

Enjoy the festivities

[Bob C]

If, or in your case when, it happens again try to trouble shoot it right away. Hold
the coil wire 1/4" from the head and see if you have a strong blue spark. Good luck.

Bob

[William Kelchner]

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I'm going to let this thing idle for about a half hour and see what transpires.

[Tom Wesenberg]

I felt the same way about my 1999 Olds when it started having electrical gremlins. The right front power window quit working 3 years ago, then this summer the engine quit on the way to the hospital. Then it ran and quit intermittently and I lost all confidence in it. Mitch suggested to check the ground connection under the carpet by the driver's door. Sure enough, just very light corrosion from water that got past the door seal. Cleaned it, and resealed the door gasket, and it's like a new car again.

It's probably something simple, but you may need someone with you to help find it. As Purdy suggested, the coil or ignition switch might be the problem. My A was having problems with backfiring and intermittent stops, until I noticed it started acting up as the key fob swung back and forth. That's when I knew it was poor switch contacts. I fixed the contacts, and now it's the most dependable car I own.

[William Kelchner]

Ok left the car idle and varied the speed/timing for 50 minutes. Temp never went above 140-150, I can put my hand on the radiator shroud and its warm, (I do not run a thermostat).

And then it happened after 40 minutes it started to drop rpm's and gradually shut off. Jumped back in and it started right up (as usual). 10 minutes later it did it again, a gradual loss of power, I gave it more gas and it did not like it at all. If the engine was under load this would have been the exact situation I have experienced before. Coil was only warm.

It did not cough through the carb either time but if I would have given it anymore gas it sounded like it wanted to.

I could not pull the coil lead as I'm alone but I sure will tomorrow after I convince the wife its safe . More to follow

[Mitch//pa]

An inline spark tester would be real handy in diagnosing this everyone should have one. it eliminates the need to hold the coil wire and watch it while the engine is running. Also hooking a testlight to the dist side of the coil and keeping watch on the light flashing as the points open and close is also helpful.

[Bob C]

I'm not a fan of hanging on to the coil wire. Get a little piece of wood and set it on
so you have about a ¼" gap then turn the key on and work the starter switch
with your hand from the engine compartment. Have you checked the vent in the gas
cap to make sure your tank is vented?

[William Kelchner]

I agree the coil can and will straighten the curls in your hair.. I pull the plugs to take a look at them:

Almost looks like the thing went lean

[colin1928]

William I once had a small bit of crap in the gas tank that would float around down near the bottom of the tank that would find its way to drain only when driving and block the fuel supply car would idle and run great in the barn drive great for a while then block up car would stop then start up fine until it happened again
I looked everything else for days until I found this problem

[William Kelchner]

Thanks gentlemen. This 40 minute thing tonight is about what the last 3-4 trips were in duration. By the time I warm the beast up, get out of the garage and take the usual little trip its about 40 minutes. Maybe I'm watching too many detective shows but the time frame is a clue. The plugs did not have the carbon free spots on them when this current scenario began. I'mgoing to try the coil trick tomorrow when I does its thing. If thats not it pull the switch, clip a multimeter on it and play with it, but the time element is a sure clue.

Hey maybe Santa will let me a Model A specific diagnostic tool or two but I doubt it.

One bright spot the horn works great everytime.

[captonzap]

It sure sounds like a coil going bad.
Since you said you had an ohm meter, measure the ohms in the primary, (low voltage) and secondary windings when the coil is cold, and making a spark.
Then run it for40 minutes, or whenever it starts acting strange, and measure the two coils again. If they are different by more than 10%, that may be a clue. This is not a definitive check, because the current is not flowing in the coils, and there could be a break in the internal wire insulation that allows a short circuit when the heat and voltage gets up.
The only way the condenser could be at fault is if it were shorted. You can disconnect the wire and run without it for a while, just to see if that is the problem. It will start to pit the points, so just run it long enough to get home, if that cures the problem.

If there is anybody near you that plays with OLD VW's, the early ones used 6 volt coils, and they might have a spare that you could try. The polarity is marked on Bosch coils.

CZ

[BudP]

William-I have a used coil that tested OK a few months ago. It's yours for the taking if you want to drive to Oakton to pick it up. If interested, PM me and I'll give you directions. Bud

[William Kelchner]

Thanks BudP I may take you up on that offer. I found the coil that was on the car back when I bought it. So I'm going to put that on this afternoon and see what happens.

[tbirdtbird]

what is missing is an on-the-spot diagnostic session when the car acts up. You need to take another person with you. When it coughs or dies you need to have them operate the starter while you pull the coil wire and check for a good 1/4" blue spark to ground. If you get that then check for same thing at each plug.
When it acts up try different choke and/or GAV settings to see if it is fuel-related.
If it will idle at all when it acts up, but runs rough, use a plastic handle screwdriver and short out one plug at a time to see if all cyls. are doing work. If you short a certain plug and the rpm doesn't drop then that cyl is not doing anything.

Etc.

Since it is intermittent you have to be ready to jump on the problem as soon as it occurs. Is the fuel line pushed too far inside the carb? If so it can shut off the fuel supply.

These cars are actually very reliable but everything must be properly set up, and there is a learning curve for the eccentricities of the car, like there is for any old car.

[William Kelchner]

Just tried to start the thing and repeat last nights little test and check the coil wire when it loses power again. Thing will not run and I got several resounding backfires which I have never had. I need to fall back and come up with a different plan of action. Thanks tbird.........

[tbirdtbird]

well when u are cranking do you get the blue spark I mentioned?

Resounding backfires are either wrong timing which is prolly not the case since it just ran on the road OK, or very lean, not getting fuel. loosen the fuel line nut on the carb and pull back on the line, be sure you have 1/4 inch between the end of the tubing and the inside back wall of the carb.

[William Kelchner]

Ok I'm going to give it another whirl.

[Rex_A_Lott]

Intermittent problems are the most difficult to find. Check the fuel delivery, as suggested.
Also pay attention to where your spark advance is when you have trouble. Something could be grounding out as the point plate is being moved.
Also check the points/point plate to make sure you are getting a consistent gap every time on every cylinder. I've only seen it once, but recently I had one that had been converted to modern points that was shifting around, sometimes the points would open and sometimes not, effectively turning the ignition off and on and causing a backfire. And yes, it just started out of the blue one day.
Also I'd try bypassing the switch, just to eliminate it.
Good Luck to you!

[William Kelchner]

I have declared my garage a Model A free zone in 2014.

Put a known good coil on the machine for one last test. Started up, ran great for 15 minutes then got rough for a minute and quit. Repeat restarts same thing. Checked for junk in the carb, spark, played with the GAV, ignition switch , now will not start - everything on this thing is new or close to new.

Therefore my love affair with my roadster is sadly over. Thanks for all the help.

[Patrick L.]

Well William, if the car is up for sale, what is your price ? I'd like another roadster.

[William Kelchner]

Well I'm an inch from a price. Started it again and purring then died like no gas. Took off fuel line-great flow. Spark was still good. Started it again, it ran minute or two - weak spark. I have an old old original set of points I found in my shed, I gonna put them on this evening just for kicks. None of this started until I decided to get the rebuilt dist with original hardware.

See what happens with the other set of points.

[Quigley1930]

Bill I'm going to bring the distributor coil and carb from my coup. I know they are good as I've driven the car about 200 miles this week and have not had one problem. We will try one at a time until the "beast" is tamed. Just holler when's a good time.

Sewall Tyler

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

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W.K, See if the post that the point arm pivots on is loose &"wobbly"----If so, turn the plate over & TAP-TAP-TAP, where the post is riveted under the plate. Bill W.

[captonzap]

Originally Posted by William Kelchner

None of this started until I decided to get the rebuilt dist with original hardware.

Ah ha! Now we're getting someplace. If it started having problems with the "rebuilt" dizzy, the odds are pretty good that the problem is in there. Who rebuilt it? Do they have a track record of good work, or was it the Shadetree Shop run by the kid fresh out of Auto Tech?
As has been suggested, calm yourself, take the dizzy apart, piece by piece, and look at every small detail.
Shaft bearing tight, both ends.
Wiring insulation unbroken or bare/ frayed?
Points not pitted? (Over or under capacitence)
Rubbing block loose
Most problems are pretty obvious, visually, if you know where to look. The trick is to look at everything as a potential problem, and see if it indeed is.
And not "yeah, the cap is on right".
Is it cracked, or have carbon tracks?
Or "Oh yeah, those are the points, they look OK".
Are they pitted, spring weak, smoothly working on their pivot, wire connection tight and wire away from any potential contact with ground?
And the fact that it works for a while, and quits when the heat goes up, would suggest that thermal expansion might be a factor. Look at what might expand and short the electrical flow.
What ever you do, don't let it be said that a machine got the best of you.
Troglodytes have that niche covered.

CZ

p.s. And be sure to let us know what the problem was, (that means you found it), as there is some heavy betting going on out here.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Have you tried unscrewing the ignition cable one turn where it screws into the distributor housing?

The tougher the problem, the bigger the reward when it's fixed!

[Mike V. Florida]

What about the ground from the dizzy to the head.

[tbirdtbird]

Captonzap is right on

[William Kelchner]

Thanks for the latest - I'm going to set a date up with Quiggly who is close to me and pop his known working dist in there. This rebuilt one I have I got from Bratton's. Have no fear if we can win this battle the resolution will be on the Barn.

The other evening I swapped the upper dist plate with an old one and it did the same @&(**# thing. Ran great for 15 minutes and then went silent.

[Patrick L.]

All the questions have been answered within these 5 pages, but, just for the heck of it as has been stated[ lastly by Mike] why not just check the distributor set screw. I'm sure you greased or never-seized the distributor, so, loosen the lock nut, work the set screw several times and make sure its snug against/into the distributor when tightening the lock nut. This problem has to be something simple thats just being over looked. Also take the gas cap off and loosen the primary cable a turn, these are basics and previously mentioned, but, I don't remember these being done [ doesn't mean much as I can't remember what I had for breakfast].

[William Kelchner]

Well gang my friend and forum member quigley1930 came over and we went through everything and it appears the problem has been discovered! Initially the car started and was performing well, he put a transparent dist cap on (neat) and we were scratching our heads after about 30 minutes was running great and then it died on us.

So we have good electrics and decided to swap the carb out. As I was
removing the fuel line at the carb my expert said "whoa" the fuel line I constructed prior to my problems was waaay too long. We broke out the grinder and took a good 1/4 off the end.

Started the beast up and it has been running for hours without so much as a whimper.

I put my Zenith back on and ran it for another hour and runs great. Pretty confident this is/was the culprit (of my own doing).

ttbirdtbird and Rex A. lot mentioned checking the fuel line but hey, I constructed it it must be perfect..therefore, I did not check it.

Back for another road test tomorrow. Considering this fuel line I constructed was along for all of my ill fated rides this has got to be it....!!

[Tom Wesenberg]

Geezzzz, that's too bad............I was hoping to buy a cheap car!

[Patrick L.]

Glad to hear its back up and running. Knew it had to be something simple.

[William Kelchner]

Thanks. I read that the fuel line should extend 1/8th inch beyond the ferrule, heck I was way beyond that. I had that fuel line off and on over the past year looking for fuel problems and honestly I could have looked at the end of the fuel line 50 times and never given it a second thought.

Well best of New Years and the help to everyone out there that reads this.

[Rex_A_Lott]

Glad you got it! Look at the bright side...you'll probably never make that mistake again!

[captonzap]

Damn, I lost the bet!
You prove the reciprocal of the old adage about most carburetor problems are electrical in nature.

Glad you found the problem, although I'll miss your ranting and raving.

CZ

[29er]

I love happy endings! This thread read like a Model "A" CSI story and I learned lots along the way. Had me worried for a while though, but the good guys ALWAYS get the girl.

[tbirdtbird]

Model As are notoriously reliable.
Like any car, especially old cars, there are a few quirks that the owner MUST be aware of, and these must be addressed. The pros here know them and will pass them on. If these are tended to the car will run all day long no problem

[Quigley1930]

Bill, like I told you this afternoon, don't forget phone and AAA card!
Even 'tough I noticed it am wondering why the fuel is restricted when the line is next to the screen in the carb. The fuel has to go through the screen no matter where the line is. I'm no engineer that's why I raised hogs!

Sewall Tyler

[tbirdtbird]

Sometimes it pokes thru the screen and ends up being forced against the back wall, reducing fuel supply unpredictably. Unless you unscrew the cap for the screen and remove it and check it you could be fooled. In fact that should be done, as it most likely has a hole and thus is not doing any screening.

[Tom Wesenberg]

When the tubing is pushed up against the screen it has very little open area to flow through. When the tubing is away from the screen it has the full opening to flow out and then the full screen area to flow through. That is as long as the screen is free of junk.

[William Kelchner]

Well I'm taking the car for a walk this afternoon and this will settle it or I will have been sucked away from the house for the 6th time. This is the first physical piece of evidence we have come up with and can point a finger at.

[William Kelchner]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

When the tubing is pushed up against the screen it has very little open area to flow through. When the tubing is away from the screen it has the full opening to flow out and then the full screen area to flow through. That is as long as the screen is free of junk.

I may be contacting you later today depending on whether I come back home under my own power or on a rollback.

[William Kelchner]

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I checked that carb screen several times prior and no damage to it but my fuel line was surely awful close to it. AT ANY RATE I drove around for over a half hour, up and down hills, fast slow, etc., and as a final test I drove over the hills of death where the car flamed out on several occasions-- FLAWLESS. I'm going to declare this case closed -- thanks again everyone..

[silversink]

I'm going out to check my fuel line as I made mine also----I love lurking