Whats happening here

[1931 flamingo]

You won't be "doomed". Anything on these can be repaired/rebuilt/replaced, etc.
Keep asking questions. What books/manuals do you have. Parts catalogs have a wealth of information in them.
Paul in CT

[Patrick L.]

Its not a hard fix, as mentioned. You don't even have to 'warp' a washer any more, the vendors have them now.

I got a kick out of Mikes response. When you finish this little repair, that will be it. That is until the next problem pops up, don't worry that won't take long !

[William Kelchner]

I have concluded that a sense of humor is a prerequisite for Model A ownership. I have the Andersen Model A Mechanic and as you correctly stated most of the catalogs have a breakdown of just about anything. But nothing replaces the wealth of personal experience found on the Forum.

So here we go again - hopefully this repair will be uneventful. Again thanks

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by William Kelchner

I have concluded that a sense of humor is a prerequisite for Model A ownership. I have the Andersen Model A Mechanic and as you correctly stated most of the catalogs have a breakdown of just about anything. But nothing replaces the wealth of personal experience found on the Forum.

So here we go again - hopefully this repair will be uneventful. Again thanks

HUMOR, you say, W.K, Dog here, YEP! Humor is good & Model A'ing's s'posed to be fun & it's hard to KUSS, whin you're LAFFIN' We try to make "humor" BUT we ain't HIGH PAID komedians & SO, jist recomember thet you gettin' it for FREE, (GRATIS!)--(Gregg tole me thet wurd, he's smart, he does X-WORD puzzle thingys, while he's indisposed, (Whatever thet wurd means) Buster T.

[Richard Wilson]

A good sense of humor will serve you well in all things. Very important to remember that our Model A's are 80 plus year old USED CARS, most of which were driven hard and put up wet.

[William Kelchner]

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Here we go again. Disassembled the radius ball assembly. Got one of the special washers to insert and remove any slop. I have the original assembly, put the washer in the bottom half of the cup. Reassembled the cup using the spacers, springs and castle nuts.

I notice the special washer is not notched to accommodate fitting over the stalk of the radius ball. The directions in the parts catalog state tighten the castle nuts to the spacer and then back off in order to install the cotter pins. Well with the springs I will never tighten the nuts to the bottom on the spacer.

Moreover, when I start tightening the nuts the washer/spacer I installed starts to ride up the back of the ball toward the top half of the cup.. Is this ok? I understand there will be a gap between top and bottom halves of the ball cup but as soon as i start tightening the special washer begins its travel.

The photos I included at the start of this thread showed the thing was assembled incorrectly by someone in the past. It was stuffed with heavy leather that was oozing out of the cup.

[Tom Wesenberg]

As long as the springs keep pressure on the ball and you have a gap between the upper and lower halves you should be good to go without the washer.

[Mitch//pa]

i have never used the washer but i thought it went on the top side, thats why it has a hole in it for the oil to come through...
as tom said try it without also....

[tbirdtbird]

try without. it was put together wrong the first time

[Bob C]

The cap in your original picture just doesn't look right to me, it looks to thick.
Look at the picture I have in post #10, the hole in the cap should be big enough
for the sleeves to fit through. I think the ball should be 1 1/2", if it is close to
that I would try it without the washer like tbirdtbird suggested.

Bob

[Tom Wesenberg]

I also thought the cap looked too thick, but it didn't quite look like the cast iron cap that came on my Tudor. Make sure the cap pocket is the correct size for the 1 1/2" ball.

When people used the rubber cover then the cap was made for a larger diameter and all I've seen were cast iron.

[western77]

The bottom cap looks a lot thicker than the top cap. It sure looks like a cast iron cap to me.

[BillLee/Chandler, TX]

I did R&R on the radius ball on my '29 Tudor a year or so ago. It had one of the after-market rubber sleeve caps on it, and I replaced it with a stock-style version with one of the extra washers. You can find the report with many pictures at my club's website

http://www.cedarcreekas.org/TechTopi...sBallRandR.pdf

The pictures show the cast iron socket that holds the rubber sleeve and radius ball, and also the stock version. There is a LOT of difference.

IMHO, post 1 in this thread shows the cast iron caps, improperly assembled. (There weren't any springs in the assembly on my Tudor.)

[William Kelchner]

Ok here are photos of the cup --- One is definitely thicker than the other..

[Mitch//pa]

wasn't the replacement caps that use the rubber ball thicker?

[Bob C]

After seeing the pictures the parts look right.
Here is a picture of the rubber ball type.

Bob

[Purdy Swoft]

Originally Posted by William Kelchner

Ok here are photos of the cup --- One is definitely thicker than the other..

The parts pictured appear to be original style. Reusing the pictured parts and setting them up correctly will be the easy fix. I use the replacement style setup with the rubber ball and think it is a better idea because the original metal to metal setup tends to wear out and can contribute to front end shimmy. Being as most model A's aren't used for primary transportation,wear on the radius ball won't be as big of a problem. The replacement setup uses longer bolts to compensate for the extra thickness of the thicker cups. If you changed to the replacement setup, the two longer bolts in the bell housing would have to be replaced. I know that you've already had problems and replacing the longer bolts can be tricky. If the radius ball is in pretty good shape, the original setup will probably be your easiest bet. If it is too tight with the cupped washer, then don't use the washer.

[William Kelchner]

Well true Purdy, car does not get many miles on it, I normally drive my 64 Impala convert, that way I know I'll make it home (not meant to be inflamatory), I like my 30, but the last 4 trips (under 10 miles) did not end well. 2 with total lack of power, one with total lack of power and fuel pouring out of my fairly new Zenith, and 1 trip on a roll back -- so I am suffering from a total lack of confidence. So new rebuilt dist with original setup, no overheating issues, timed to your specs, radius ball (to be completed tonight with the original stuff).

Looking at the radius ball cup the top piece really looks strange with that extended lip, but not having seen an original guess someone here would have mentioned it.

So, I'm going in, come what may. Supposed to be nice Sunday. I will take the car out for a ride but as always have one hand on the ejection seat lever. Thanks for the inputs. Have a great weekend.

[William Kelchner]

Ok its back together - gotta run out and buy some cotter pins. I put the modified washer on top. Prior to starting all this I had considerable up and down movement at the joint - I have none now. Of course the thing was put together incorrectly by a previous owner.

Checked the radius ball and I've seen rounder concrete blocks...

I'll see if it drives any differently when I take it out Sat or Sunday. Thanks again.

[Timberbeast]

Originally Posted by William Kelchner

Well true Purdy, car does not get many miles on it, I normally drive my 64 Impala convert, that way I know I'll make it home (not meant to be inflamatory), I like my 30, but the last 4 trips (under 10 miles) did not end well. 2 with total lack of power, one with total lack of power and fuel pouring out of my fairly new Zenith, and 1 trip on a roll back -- so I am suffering from a total lack of confidence. So new rebuilt dist with original setup, no overheating issues, timed to your specs, radius ball (to be completed tonight with the original stuff).

Looking at the radius ball cup the top piece really looks strange with that extended lip, but not having seen an original guess someone here would have mentioned it.

So, I'm going in, come what may. Supposed to be nice Sunday. I will take the car out for a ride but as always have one hand on the ejection seat lever. Thanks for the inputs. Have a great weekend.

The Model A can be learning adventure. I've had my share over the years, I just take it in stride and never leave home with my AAA card.