Engine dying when coming to a stop

[edgar44]

My Model A motor has been running flawlessly for over 9 months and then suddenly last week it started to die every time I came to a stop... And now it even dies when idling. The only way to keep it running is to play with the throttle while stopping. What is my problem? Dirty gas? The photo shows some sediment in the bottom...

[goodoldvic]

The carburetor may be dirty check the websites on the A homepage for this problem you are experiencing. Also search this problem as it has been discussed many times. It's all good reading, and educational.

[Big hammer]

Dirty filters/screens, clogged gas cap vent ?

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi Edgar,

FWIW: Not the very best more expensive solution, but in trying to assist:

1. Those flakes from your 80+ year old tank I have seen very often before .. not at all good ..... they plug up your shut off valve and carburetor and are a life safety hazard if your Model A engine kills on today's highways with today's drivers ..... if so ...... just be prepared to be rear-ended by a car traveling at minimum 55 mph.

2. Quickest fix is to:

A. First remove shut-off valve, clean it, and properly install the cylindrical vertical in-tank screen filter sold for above the shut-of valve.

B. Second, clean glass bowl and correctly install a NAPA 3036 paper filter in bowl to
collect "fine" particles of sand and rust which clogs your jets.

C. Third, thoroughly clean carburetor and reinstall.

3. Expect tank to slowly continue to rust over the next 80 years, but you can stop the current fuel starvation as such for many years. Adding MMO can oil you tank like a light coat of oil on a shotgun to help prevent rust ... 4 ounces to 10 gallons.

4. Under "Search" there are so many helpful opinions from others, but this is mine in short form in as few words as possible.

5. If fuel is clean and engine still stalls, go to Plan B, not written herein.

[WKaufman]

While your cleaning the fuel system be sure to check the float level

[H. L. Chauvin]

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Many Thanks to Mr. WKaufman ....... that would have been a good recommendation for starting off with Part B.

Sounds like you may have a round bottom Zenith carburetor; notorious for killing "idling" engines at stops ........... but not killing faster rpm engines at stops.

Ford's recommended Zenith carburetor float level setting is too high & not great for slow idling engines ... Mr. Rex Reheis's in Mr. Gordon's book for float lower level is far superior for Zenith A and early B carburetors.

[1929]

Originally Posted by edgar44

My Model A motor has been running flawlessly for over 9 months and then suddenly last week it started to die every time I came to a stop... And now it even dies when idling. The only way to keep it running is to play with the throttle while stopping. What is my problem? Dirty gas? The photo shows some sediment in the bottom...

I had the exact same problem, until I removed my Nappa 3036, dumped out the sediment caught in the filter, and drove home with no more problems.

[H. L. Chauvin]

Good point in #7 ...... just like with a residential air conditioner air filter .... when it get stopped up and the air conditioner ceases to function ...... remove dirty air conditioning filter to allow air passage ...... for Model A's .... don't forget to install a new 3036 fuel filter very soon or immediately ..... or face the same deep doo-doo Model A blockage and/or fuel shortage experiences.

[Richard in Anaheim CA]

All good responses BUT before getting down to work on the carburetor. open the GAV mixture 1/4 turn when in stop and go traffic.

Often, that is all that is necessary

Richard
Anaheim CA

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by 1929

I had the exact same problem, until I removed my Nappa 3036, dumped out the sediment caught in the filter, and drove home with no more problems.

You should carry a fresh filter on board along with a cork bowl gasket. Never reuse a clogged filter

[1929]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

You should carry a fresh filter on board along with a cork bowl gasket. Never reuse a clogged filter

I not only changed the filter and bought an extra, I took the tank out, cleaned it, etched and sealed it. By the way, you can get the Nappa 3036 direct from Nappa for $5.

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi Edgar,

In trying to further assist, thought of something else that "may" or "may not" help if your tank has accumulated rust etc. at the tank's bottom:

An answer to one (1) question may help for everyone with Model A's to decide what would be a further recommendation for your gas tank?

Question: Approximately how many miles of driving did it take to accumulate the rust shown in your sediment bowl?

For example, if one accumulates this much rust in about say 100 miles, (or even within a year), it can never hurt, and depending on your particular fuel tank, it may be a good idea, (prior to installing the in-tank filter), to use about (2) gallons of fuel as a flushing agent as follows:

1. Close shut-off valve.

2. Disconnect gas line at carburetor and position gas line to flow into a tube or hose which leads to a white cotton sock or other similar filter at the lower end prior to dumping fuel into a bucket or fuel container.

3. Close shut-off valve; then pour about (2) gallons of fuel in tank, open shut-off valve, and allow fuel to flow into bucket down below and "see" if the sock trapped any sand, silt, fine rust, large rust flakes, pieces of old former fuel tank sealer dissolved with new ethanol fuel, etc., etc.

4. Pour this same "filtered" (2) gallons back in your tank, shake car at front bumper, and side to side, and repeat Steps 3. & 4. until you feel comfortable that with this simple method, you have removed as much deleterious material from your tank as possible.

Hope this helps.

[JOHN CT]

how about a drip leg. If somebody has a picture thay can send one

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Add the "PENCIL" filter, in the top of your fuel valve, they're a GODSEND!
Bill W.

[Dollar Bill]

Photo of dirty leg courtesy of fordgarge.com

[SSsssteamer]

Originally Posted by Richard in Anaheim CA

All good responses BUT before getting down to work on the carburetor. open the GAV mixture 1/4 turn when in stop and go traffic.

Often, that is all that is necessary

Richard
Anaheim CA

Ditto..... Works for me too.

[jax55]

Need a little clarification. I am looking at the NAPA web site for the "3036" filter and what comes up is a metal inline filter not a paper filter.
Incorrect part number or did Napa use that number for a different filter now?

[1929]

Originally Posted by jax55

Need a little clarification. I am looking at the NAPA web site for the "3036" filter and what comes up is a metal inline filter not a paper filter.
Incorrect part number or did Napa use that number for a different filter now?

Iam looking at the box now, it Nappa 3039 gold filter

[1929]

Jax, if you have a local Nappa, they can order it.

[jax55]

Thanks 1929. I do have a local Napa and the correct part number should help.
I will get a 3039, instead of the 3036 originally posted.

[1929]

Originally Posted by jax55

Thanks 1929. I do have a local Napa and the correct part number should help.
I will get a 3039, instead of the 3036 originally posted.

It shouldn't cost no more then $5

[1930marie]

What does MMO stand for? Where can I buy some? Napa was clueless. Thanks! While at Napa, I purchased (2) #3036 filters, now I am wondering what I bought for $5.27 each. Read previous postings, I have never seen a paper filter that was installed in my fuel bowl, but then really, whats $10 anymore? Anxious to see what I bought.

[1930marie]

Just cancelled the #3036 (inline filter - male x female conn.) and opted for the #3039 filter cartridge.

[H. L. Chauvin]

Being at my office instead of at home, I probably listed an incorrect NAPA fuel filter number for the filter that is provided in the sediment bowl.

An identical fuel filter is made by WIX, with a similar number that should be listed under "Search"

[Mitch//pa]

They wix # is 33039. I use those

[Synchro909]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Edgar44, When it comes to cleaning rust flakes out of the bottom of the fuel tank, here is what I did:
http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...rust+fuel+tank

[Cape Codder]

Bill - I agree with your statement and have one in my car "Add the "PENCIL" filter, in the top of your fuel valve, they're a GODSEND!" but I wonder if it really is such a GODSEND"!

With that filter installed, say it gets clogged up on the road, how can you rectify the situation with 3/4 of a tank of fuel still in the tank?

I also have the upside down "top hat" filter, which has been talked about previous, installed in my glass bowl. Wouldn't it be better for this one to get clogged then the pencil one? At least you can shut off the fuel and change the filter.

[TerryH]

For the poster who asked, mmo stands for Marvel Mystery Oil, and it is available at most auto parts stores. Use about 4oz per 10 gallons.....

[H. L. Chauvin]

Per reply #27 ........ I think for all of us .......... I would like to add that Bill & Buster-T are really our GODSEND ......... and the filter he mentions, well, it is just a Pencil Filter.

On a slightly more mechanical note, this little vertical upright fine screen in-tank filter protruding upwards in the tank is not only most important to help prevent clogging the shut off valve at the bottom of the tank ...... but it is equally as important to prevent harmful hard steel rust particle from entering and marring the soft metal shut-off valve material and cause it to leak.

I think this little filter is just about 2" tall or so which means if one has a total of 1" thick crud in the bottom of one's tank .... this filter would still work to allow gasoline to flow through the top clean screen area.

Remember if one had about half a tank of solid particles or crud, the tank will only hold half a tank of fuel, i.e., half as many gallons. Wow?

Also remember that 1" of crud is never ever desirable .... in my opinion, even 1/32" or less of solids and crud on a tank's bottom should be flushed out.

The much finer in-bowl filter, (in the sediment bowl), traps the very fine debris particles that can pass through the in-tank screen filter ..... when used together, one after the other, they work great to filter 80+ year old rusting tanks.

With a good clean tank with no loose rust, and no sand and silt, the Model A sediment bowl "alone" works just fine; especially if one drives one's Model A often and continues to flush the tank with every fill-up.

[Cape Codder]

So.......if the filter clogs up with rust along the road how do you get the fuel out of the tank? My point is if using the upside down "top hat" filter you can take it apart on the road. I understand about marring the shutoff valve but it will not happen suddenly as a clogged filter.

[H. L. Chauvin]

1. I think if one knows he has even a thin layer of rust in the bottom of the tank, it is "always" best to flush out the tank "prior" to installing the in-tank filter.

2. After the tank is flushed out and the bottom is clean of loose rust particles, sand, or other debris, any subsequent "heavier than gas" rust particles that occur in the tank with remain on the bottom just like the "heavier than gas" rust particles stay in the bottom of the sediment bowl ..... they will not float.

3. If an in tank filter was installed in a "clean" tank, and if this filter gets clogged while on the road, say a few years afterwards, this is usually a good sign that one is:

a. Usually almost out of gas; and,

b. Has a small amount of crud sitting way down on the bottom of his tank; and,

c. The upper part of the in-tank filter is exposed to the air as opposed to being exposed to liquid fuel.

d. Just add gas so the top of the filter will be surrounded by gas and be on your way.

Then further down below for a comparison, there is a carburetor gas strainer screen that is different.

It can fill up with crud and get clogged because the heavier than gas rust and crud cannot fall out or fall off from the screen like that of a vertical in-tank screen.

I have an in-tank for six years working great ..... I wish I could live to see enough rust in my rusty tank to witness it getting clogged.

Appears if the total surface and length of an in-tank filter screen gets clogged just after a few years of service, this is not at all normal, and one would need to find what is clogging it.

And finally, if a full tank of gas cannot be removed through the bottom of the tank for any reason, it would have to be siphoned through the top opening.

I do this too sometimes ..... easy .... drive about 10 miles to get a full tank of gas in my van, return, and rather than fool around with gas cans, just siphon it into my lawn mower.

Hope this helps.

[1930marie]

Thank you Terry!

[lee in bend]

Everyone is pointing to an aftermarket filter from NAPA??? #1 shouldn't be there. I have the same problem and only one person her mentioned the carburetor float level. That's likely the problem, I have the same problem and symptom. I am going to try changing the float level and see if that helps. I've been told it's too high and the gas "flood's" the carburetor. It's a project among many in the spring...

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi Lee,

In looking at the large rust flakes in his first photo of his glass sediment bowl, one questions his mentioning (9) months of running great ..... then idling problems.

Most of us wish his problem was only mosquitoes in his garage ..... but this is a life safety issue of a car dying on a modern highway where today's drivers are not used to seeing roadside stops and/or repairs.

Just hoping for an easy fix without much cost involved..

[1929]

I decided that the best solution was to remove the tank and clean it, removing the tank was an easy job, after cleaning the tank, I put it back in with all new stainless steel bolts,washers and nuts.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Cape Codder

So.......if the filter clogs up with rust along the road how do you get the fuel out of the tank? My point is if using the upside down "top hat" filter you can take it apart on the road. I understand about marring the shutoff valve but it will not happen suddenly as a clogged filter.

I have never heard of that filter plugging up solid, and even if it did, then you disconnect the fuel line at the carb and blow back into the tank. This will unplug it so you can drive home and flush the junk out of the tank.

[H. L. Chauvin]

What Tom is reporting was Model A "Standard Operational Procedure", (SOP).

Before the in-tank screen filters were available, the hole in the bottom of the Model A tank would "begin" to get plugged causing engine missing and fuel starvation where it was common for a guy to stop, unscrew the fuel line at the carburetor, loosen the fuel connection at the sediment bulb, swing the metal gas line upwards 90 degrees, and blow in the fuel line to blow sand and rust away from the tank's bottom opening..

How often? Depends. In terribly rusty tanks, sometimes twice in a (12) mile trip to the movies, (at night). Nothing to it .... just needed a flash light ...... not much night traffic in rural areas where everyone went to bed early prior to TV.

Same was done with vintage tractors.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

One vintage fix performed years ago, that may or may not help Model A owners today in some rusty tank cases:

With tank empty, get the following:

1. Lubricating oil in a pan.

2. Kerosene in a pan.

3. Barbecue mop with a long handle (Used to apply BBQ sauce on meat).

Procedure:

A. Dip mop in lubricating oil, (detergent or non-detergent), and wring out.

B. Pat bottom of fuel tank with oiled mop to collect sand and rust particles on oiled mop.

C. Thoroughly clean mop in kerosene, re-oil and wring out.

D. Repeat step B. above.

E. Wait about a week until more sand and rust can move over to where sand and rust was formerly removed and repeat Steps A though D.

Primitive, yes ....... sounds like a "Fred Fix" with the Flintstones, yes, but it did help.

Hope this helps someone one day ...... and remember ..... this was never included in any of Ford's Service Bulletins.