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Old 05-22-2021, 04:17 PM   #1
crazycasey
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Default Mounting Rumble Lid Hinges; Where Did I Go Wrong!?

Iím at a loss...







Iím using almost all aftermarket parts here. And Iím mixing manufacturers...which never helps. The hinges and hinge brackets came from a car that was all bolted up and working, so I believe that the problem lies in the triangles and hinge braces. Do I have them positioned together correctly? It sure seemed obvious that the relief in the triangle would interact with the hole in the raised portion of the brace, but I had no original parts to compare to...





The easiest path forward would seem to be to build the hinge brackets from scratch to fit the hinges themselves. But, if itís possible that different hinges/brackets could be the solution, I wouldnít be opposed to purchasing those.

Anybody have any thoughts?

Thanks,

-C
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Old 05-22-2021, 05:21 PM   #2
40-A Twins
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Default Re: Mounting Rumble Lid Hinges; Where Did I Go Wrong!?

Happens frequently using repro parts. Drill to match, bend to fit, hammer where necessary, weld to suit. Back when these bodies were built, parts were sent to an assembly shop, and when things didn't line up, some floor manager called the supplier and complained and they got things straightened out. That feedback loop does not happen with repro parts.
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Old 05-23-2021, 12:28 AM   #3
Brentwood Bob
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Default Re: Mounting Rumble Lid Hinges; Where Did I Go Wrong!?

Wonder if the hinges are OEM, or not. I have several sets of originals. Seems like a logical starting point to me.
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Old 05-23-2021, 01:02 AM   #4
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Default Re: Mounting Rumble Lid Hinges; Where Did I Go Wrong!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 40-A Twins View Post
Happens frequently using repro parts. Drill to match, bend to fit, hammer where necessary, weld to suit. Back when these bodies were built, parts were sent to an assembly shop, and when things didn't line up, some floor manager called the supplier and complained and they got things straightened out. That feedback loop does not happen with repro parts.
I think so...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brentwood Bob View Post
Wonder if the hinges are OEM, or not. I have several sets of originals. Seems like a logical starting point to me.
I read on the Cabriolet 68c site that OEM hinges wonít fit a Brookville Decklid. Neither could I find an OEM set to try, in the first place. I wouldnít be opposed to trying a set, if somebody near me had one, but...
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Old 05-23-2021, 01:43 AM   #5
Brentwood Bob
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Default Re: Mounting Rumble Lid Hinges; Where Did I Go Wrong!?

So your set are reproductions. Will spacers get the hinge in position?
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Old 05-23-2021, 08:16 AM   #6
Steve Plucker
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Default Re: Mounting Rumble Lid Hinges; Where Did I Go Wrong!?

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This MIGHT be you problem...

Depending on just what type of body you are working on, the lower back rear panel may be the wrong panel for your car...that is why you might be having the problem you are having.

Here is something I wrote up for another project currently on the back burner but slowly moving towards the front:

Although the 1928-1929 Roadster A-41406 Panel (Deck) Assembly—Lower (lower back panel) was different in height (apx. 9-1/2”) from the Coupes (Standard, Special, Sport and Business) (apx. 7-1.2”) where there was no bead above the Floor Cross Sill Assembly—Rear, where all Wheel Carrier Assemblies were assembled as seen in (Fig. 1). Either A-1379 Types 1, 2, 3 or 4 and/or A-1381 Types 1, 2 or 3, Wheel Carrier Assemblies (WCA) depending on application, were used during this time period. In 1929, the Cabriolet was added to the list and the lower back panel (apx. 7-1/2”) and remained as such thru the 1931 Slant Window Cabriolet with minor modifications. The Cabriolet had the same lower back panel assembly as the 28-29 Coupes. As the new WCA’s became available, they were incorporated into the production with no adjustment to the mounting flange of the panel. In this case, there will be a gap at the bottom of the flange where the 30-31 bead would have been (Fig. 2).

By using a lower back rear panel might get you to where you want to be!???????


Pluck

Last edited by Steve Plucker; 05-23-2021 at 08:21 AM.
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Old 05-23-2021, 10:38 AM   #7
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Default Re: Mounting Rumble Lid Hinges; Where Did I Go Wrong!?

This is the problem with Aftermarket parts. I worked for hours on my rumbleseat lid to get it to fit and it still wasn't good. I bought a set of original hinges and the hardware and it mounted right up. I'm going to adjust it a little more but I'm really close now.
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Old 05-23-2021, 12:57 PM   #8
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Default Re: Mounting Rumble Lid Hinges; Where Did I Go Wrong!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinbasher View Post
This is the problem with Aftermarket parts. I worked for hours on my rumbleseat lid to get it to fit and it still wasn't good. I bought a set of original hinges and the hardware and it mounted right up. I'm going to adjust it a little more but I'm really close now.
Did you get original hinges to fit an aftermarket lid, or did you use original hinges on an original lid? Iím hearing that theyíre not cross-compatible at all. My lid is a B-ville piece...
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Old 05-23-2021, 01:00 PM   #9
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Default Re: Mounting Rumble Lid Hinges; Where Did I Go Wrong!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Plucker View Post
This MIGHT be you problem...

Depending on just what type of body you are working on, the lower back rear panel may be the wrong panel for your car...that is why you might be having the problem you are having.

Here is something I wrote up for another project currently on the back burner but slowly moving towards the front:

Although the 1928-1929 Roadster A-41406 Panel (Deck) AssemblyóLower (lower back panel) was different in height (apx. 9-1/2Ē) from the Coupes (Standard, Special, Sport and Business) (apx. 7-1.2Ē) where there was no bead above the Floor Cross Sill AssemblyóRear, where all Wheel Carrier Assemblies were assembled as seen in (Fig. 1). Either A-1379 Types 1, 2, 3 or 4 and/or A-1381 Types 1, 2 or 3, Wheel Carrier Assemblies (WCA) depending on application, were used during this time period. In 1929, the Cabriolet was added to the list and the lower back panel (apx. 7-1/2Ē) and remained as such thru the 1931 Slant Window Cabriolet with minor modifications. The Cabriolet had the same lower back panel assembly as the 28-29 Coupes. As the new WCAís became available, they were incorporated into the production with no adjustment to the mounting flange of the panel. In this case, there will be a gap at the bottom of the flange where the 30-31 bead would have been (Fig. 2).

By using a lower back rear panel might get you to where you want to be!???????


Pluck
Ah, Pluck, youíre making my head hurt. Hahaha! I guess Iíd better get out there and measure. I canít imagine that itís two inches off, though, without that being WAY obvious. I will report back.
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Old 05-23-2021, 01:03 PM   #10
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Default Re: Mounting Rumble Lid Hinges; Where Did I Go Wrong!?

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So your set are reproductions. Will spacers get the hinge in position?
I believe so Bob. Theyíre powder coated, so, that would be my thinking, anyway. I added a washer under the hinge on what would be the seat back surface of the lid, and that gave me an extra 1/4Ē, but Iím still over an inch off. Iím thinking of adding a spacer between the hinge and the hinge bracket...but the bracket is still in the WAY wrong place on the hinge brace, too. This is going to be a process...
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Old 05-23-2021, 01:45 PM   #11
Steve Plucker
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Default Re: Mounting Rumble Lid Hinges; Where Did I Go Wrong!?

What parts are original Model A to your assembly...What parts are not?

When one goes from one parts supply house to another to complete an assembly...one runs into trouble...best to get all parts to do an assembly from one supplier.

However...it is also best to use original parts all the way for a 100% good fit.

Pluck
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Old 05-23-2021, 03:06 PM   #12
crazycasey
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Default Re: Mounting Rumble Lid Hinges; Where Did I Go Wrong!?

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Originally Posted by Steve Plucker View Post
What parts are original Model A to your assembly...What parts are not?

When one goes from one parts supply house to another to complete an assembly...one runs into trouble...best to get all parts to do an assembly from one supplier.

However...it is also best to use original parts all the way for a 100% good fit.

Pluck
Yes sir I completely agree with you there. When I started this project I knew less than nothing. Now I know an amount basically equal to nothing. It seems like it is “general knowledge” amongst those in this hobby that there are three levels of Model A parts; those that just don’t fit, period, those that fit “ok”, but only if you only use them with other parts from the same place, and then, original parts, which still don’t really fit, but they’re better than the other two options.

If I had it to do over, I would do it differently. That’s for sure.

Oh, as to your question, on the back half of the car, basically nothing is original. I HAD (past tense) two quarters and a decklid that were like Swiss cheese with rust holes, and the bottom 7” were completely gone. And they were poorly grafted (brazing and bailing wire) onto a pair of coupe subrails (just to really confuse matters), that had been torch cut behind the door post, and bolted to the original roadster front subrails through 1x1x1/8” square tube “stiffeners”. Where the quarter panel braces and rumble hinge braces were supposed to be, there were 2x4’s wood screwed into what was left of the subrails. So, I restored what I could on the front and started from scratch on the rear.

To answer your question from the last post, I measured both my original “panel below decklid” and my replacement, and both are about 9-3/8” in the center. So that’s not my issue...
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Old 05-23-2021, 03:09 PM   #13
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Default Re: Mounting Rumble Lid Hinges; Where Did I Go Wrong!?

It appears you have a 28 or 29 roadster looking at the stiffening ribs in the rear fender wells. I think Steve is on to something in the panel below the lid. Measure the height of the panel and make sure you have a 9" panel. I agree with the barners that say you need to get a set of original rumble hinges and the hinge parts that bolt to the body bracket and rain gutter. Repro parts, as described above are a hit and miss proposition -mostly a miss! BTW, I have gone through what you are now trying to install the trunk lid on my 28 special coupe. I tried repro parts, as I thought I would never find decent original parts. The original lid and the repro panel below the lid had a large gap in the middle and looked like crap. I found an original panel below the lid from Bert's and everthing fit perfect. The main problem was the very thin and poorly made horizontal brace inside the lower panel. Original lower panel braces are much thicker and the correct shape. Good luck on your project.
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Old 05-23-2021, 03:41 PM   #14
shew01
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Default Re: Mounting Rumble Lid Hinges; Where Did I Go Wrong!?

Here is a link to Bertís.

https://modelastore.com


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Old 05-23-2021, 03:43 PM   #15
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Default Re: Mounting Rumble Lid Hinges; Where Did I Go Wrong!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrndln View Post
It appears you have a 28 or 29 roadster looking at the stiffening ribs in the rear fender wells. I think Steve is on to something in the panel below the lid. Measure the height of the panel and make sure you have a 9" panel. I agree with the barners that say you need to get a set of original rumble hinges and the hinge parts that bolt to the body bracket and rain gutter. Repro parts, as described above are a hit and miss proposition -mostly a miss! BTW, I have gone through what you are now trying to install the trunk lid on my 28 special coupe. I tried repro parts, as I thought I would never find decent original parts. The original lid and the repro panel below the lid had a large gap in the middle and looked like crap. I found an original panel below the lid from Bert's and everthing fit perfect. The main problem was the very thin and poorly made horizontal brace inside the lower panel. Original lower panel braces are much thicker and the correct shape. Good luck on your project.
Thank you.

In the post above I note that I do have the correct height panel below decklid. Do rumble seat cars use a center brace? All the repros parts catalogs say ďfor cars with trunkĒ in the description on those center braces.

Iíve read in a couple write-ups that an original hinge wonít fit on my Brookville lid, but if somebody can tell me otherwise, Iíll listen. Brentwood Bob offered to lend me an original hinge to try, and I may take him up on that, but was hoping someone could chime in as to the likelihood of it working before I ask him to go through the trouble.

At this stage, I see giving up on the panels I have as a bit of a non-starter, but I suppose I may reach that level of frustration eventually. Thanks again for the reply.
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Old 05-23-2021, 04:52 PM   #16
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Default Re: Mounting Rumble Lid Hinges; Where Did I Go Wrong!?

I am attach a picture of an original 28-29 panel below the lid I bought some time ago. Someone crudely cut holes for some taillight I in it. I started to repair it, but it still need work. It is an extra. Note the horizontal stiffening and curve forming bracket and the vertical bracket riveted to the horizontal bracket. This really makes the bottom of the lid line up with the top of the panel below the lid. BTW, both rumble seat cars and cars with trunks use the same panel below the lid. Is your car a Brookville 28/29 body?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Inside panel original - whole.jpg (21.2 KB, 45 views)
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Old 05-23-2021, 07:38 PM   #17
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Default Re: Mounting Rumble Lid Hinges; Where Did I Go Wrong!?

Looking at an old Sacramento Vintage parts cat shows 7-1/2 inches tall coupe 28-29 cabriolet 29-31 Roadster 28-29 9-1/2 inches tall 30- 31 coupe and roadster 9 - 7 /16 inches tall
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Old 05-23-2021, 07:52 PM   #18
Steve Plucker
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Default Re: Mounting Rumble Lid Hinges; Where Did I Go Wrong!?

Casey,

I do not know where you are located in California...LA Area maybe?

If so, look inot joining a local Model A Ford Club, or not, but maybe there is someone who knows of a car similar to yours that you could look in on.

I know it is very, VERY frustrating when things like this happen...please do not ask me why.

No sence in beating your head apart trying to figure this out...find a "donor" car to look at and take photos and notes,.

Maybe Bob knows of one.

Pluck
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Old 05-24-2021, 05:59 AM   #19
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Default Re: Mounting Rumble Lid Hinges; Where Did I Go Wrong!?

Seems to me that the wrong lower panel would affect the opening. The lid would not fit the opening anywhere close.
Options as I see it
1. try new hinges mounted to lid
2. Re-position the mounting holes in the upright brace. Rather major. Hopefully both sides are the same; if not the lid would/might not open correctly. Needs to be symmetrical and in same plane
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Old 05-24-2021, 01:32 PM   #20
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Default Re: Mounting Rumble Lid Hinges; Where Did I Go Wrong!?

Thanks everybody for the advice, direction, etc. Brentwood Bob is going to send me some OEM hinges and Iím going to see what changes when I put those on. Iíll keep everybody posted.

Also, Iím YouTubing this whole thing if anybody wants to check it out.

Here is the latest video:

https://youtu.be/YueQrHppljw

And here is a link to another thread here on Ford Barn where I introduce the project and link the first You Tube video in my series:

https://fordbarn.com/forum/showthrea...73#post2015673
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