The Ford Barn

DougVieyra · 09-25-2014, 01:00 PM

sConners: "I have been quite dismayed by the parts that I order from a variety of suppliers. It seems I rarely get a part out of the box that fits correctly without some type of tweaking. This is a major frustration. I know these companies pay big money to license the Ford name so they can have it on their packaging and everything I get comes from Taiwan, or China or somewhere overseas. It’s amazing to me that working on an iconic American car I’m using cheap overseas parts that always need to be bent, filed, sanded, ground, cut, reshaped! It’s frustrating as a hobbyist and angers me as an American. " - Sconners, Post #1
_____________________

That is why, for some, it is much better to spend some time "cleaning up" an original Ford-Made part, and why BERT'S Model A Parts Center in Denver, has earned a reputation for being a source of such original parts. His inventory of original Ford-Made parts is quite extensive.

Also, many of the other suppliers also occaisionally carry (much more limited) some original parts - it does not hurt to ASK them.

- Doug Vieyra

DougVieyra · 09-25-2014, 01:11 PM

I only buy American !

The gasoline I put in my gas tank, the oil I put in my crank case, and the grease in my lub gun - I insist, come only from either Texas, or California. No foreign 'cheap junk', 'ill-fitting' oil from Nigeria, Venezala, or Middle East.

- Doug Vieyra, Jingoistic Docent, of the now closed Eureka FORD PLANT

brito36 · 09-25-2014, 01:25 PM

I have been buying reproduction parts for years, and I find that almost all are junk. As a business owner and I were to make a reproduction part, I would strive to make it identical to the original in both looks and function. I can't understand why vendors have these parts made in poor quality, when they could have an exact duplicate for a few bucks more. More people would buy them.

Joe K · 09-25-2014, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DougVieyra

I only buy American !

The gasoline I put in my gas tank, the oil I put in my crank case, and the grease in my lub gun - I insist, come only from either Texas, or California. No foreign 'cheap junk', 'ill-fitting' oil from Nigeria, Venezala, or Middle East.

- Doug Vieyra, Jingoistic Docent, of the now closed Eureka FORD PLANT

You may be fortunate - although I don't think oil is necessarily "color coded" to prevent intermixing before refining - or blending of the finished product streams.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...ing-saudi.html

The article is quite extensive, and discusses the underlying geo-political arena which is an area of only limited discussion on a technical board.

Not mentioned is that the US EPA will be completing rulemaking for Frack Oil in 2015 - and most oil producers are expecting the worst in new regulations.

Just in time for the 2016 elections I might add.

Meanwhile - buy local - if you can.

Joe K

Mitch//pa · 09-25-2014, 01:33 PM

we are lucky to have such a wide assortment of things available to us. enough that a car can be built out of a book such as john lavoys pick up truck. a lot of the issue has to do with experience on knowing what the different suppliers carry on certain items. many , many items are not created equal and ford barn is a great way to find that info out. i buy alot from different suppliers brattons, snyders, tams,etc for that reason.. the more experienced one becomes on who to call for a particular item will help with your jobs going smoother.
for instance::
brattons carrys the best inner tubes out there right now, so if you buy from an alternative source than from them your likely to have inflation loss issues.

pedal and shifter plates brattons carrys them unfiinished and snyders has them powder coated

the light switches fit terrible which you were aware of from your previous posts

stop light switches A&l makes the best

i just used a brattons light harness with connectors and repo headlights. it all fit together perfect... not sure how the other jobbers parts are???

just a few examples on things so as mentioned experience goes a long way..

H. L. Chauvin · 09-25-2014, 01:44 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

There are also a few other things to consider:

1. In the 1950's, I remember only the poorest of the poor owning Model A's; restoration was at all not very popular; Model A's were a step above walking or riding a horse.

2. In the 1950's one could find tons of old armoires, wood stoves, & marble top dressers in the garbage; nobody wanted vintage stuff.

3. In the 1950's thousands of old buildings were demolished; nobody wanted old Victorian houses etc.

4. Then a little later, all of a sudden, "old" was "good" -- except for "old" people like us. LOL

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 09-25-2014, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brito36

I have been buying reproduction parts for years, and I find that almost all are junk. As a business owner and I were to make a reproduction part, I would strive to make it identical to the original in both looks and function. I can't understand why vendors have these parts made in poor quality, when they could have an exact duplicate for a few bucks more. More people would buy them.

Unfortunately, the ones that DO have items made have not found this to be true.

Now contrary to what people may believe, the majority of Model-A hobbyists just will not spend the extra money for a quality manufactured item. Bill Stipe's shocks are a great example of top-notch US quality, ....however he is on his last run because folks complain about the cost. Tom Rootlieb stopped production on the good 1931 running boards because the sales were poor on them. Folks would opt to purchase the ones made in Ohio that were made out of a thinner metal and were not correctly made. Chris Robinson made a really nice crankshaft but halted production because people would not pay the price he needed to make a profit. There are so many other quality pieces for the Model-A such as Sport/Special Coupe top mouldings, terne-finished running board trim, etc. that have dropped off the market simply because the demand for a quality item was not there, ...especially if there was a cheaper alternative available.

CAPE A · 09-25-2014, 05:34 PM

Just pickedup running boards for my truck from a guy on the FB , said they were new
asked what shape any rust ? no.
Got them last nt. one has a 1/2 " bend in the outside edge the other has a slight bend each one had ben installed before. and some rust where they were mounted.
To me that is not new. By the time one fixes them one will have lots more $ in them than if i bought new.
Very disapointed in this Barn Member
Problems with parts is fustrating being lied to is another.

JOES31 · 09-25-2014, 06:57 PM

Brent,
You are absolutely correct. The problem with poor quality parts is exactly as you stated. Model A owners will not pay for them and opt for the cheaper poor quality part. Not just Model A parts and owners but it is prevalent in our every day life as consumers. I can't tell you how many quality products have gone away because of cheaper poorley made copied product that consumers prefer to purchase. The best example is tools. Sk Wayne, Proto, Crescent, Evans are all gone. Now they are just names stamped on poorly made imported tools. All because the American consumer will not pay for the quality product.

What most don't understand is, paying more for a quality part is always going to be less expensive in the long run. Easier installation and longer life.

I too have had to waste hours fitting a repo part on my A because that is all that is available.

The sour taste of a cheaply made product lasts far longer than the added expense of a quality properly built product.

H. L. Chauvin · 09-25-2014, 07:07 PM

For business minded individuals with business common sense, please don't forget about our American system of "supply & demand."

Why do all of the local good American stores close when a new American Wal-Mart comes in town & offers everything very cheap from China? Choices, choices of where to spend money.

Parts vendors pay just as much inventory tax, land use & building tax, & utility costs for shelf items that move quickly & make money, as for the more expensive items that just sit on the shelf collect dust.

No parts vendor can stay in business with a museum of non selling parts. Like Mr. Brent mentioned above, who is wiling to pay for good shocks?

In my humble opinion, if it were extremely lucrative to sell "perfect" Model A parts, almost every State would have such a booming Model A parts business ..... but again, American "supply & demand" ...... don't even mention our American Congress ..... choices, choices ......... perfect example of the "majority" of everyday American "demand" & the final results.

Agree 100% with all of the above that we can get better if & when we begin to "demand" better.

ericr · 09-25-2014, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JOES31

Brent,
You are absolutely correct. The problem with poor quality parts is exactly as you stated. Model A owners will not pay for them and opt for the cheaper poor quality part. Not just Model A parts and owners but it is prevalent in our every day life as consumers. I can't tell you how many quality products have gone away because of cheaper poorley made copied product that consumers prefer to purchase. The best example is tools. Sk Wayne, Proto, Crescent, Evans are all gone. Now they are just names stamped on poorly made imported tools. All because the American consumer will not pay for the quality product.

What most don't understand is, paying more for a quality part is always going to be less expensive in the long run. Easier installation and longer life.

I too have had to waste hours fitting a repo part on my A because that is all that is available.

The sour taste of a cheaply made product lasts far longer than the added expense of a quality properly built product.

You guys are correct of course but it is part of a larger picture. Many purchasers' incomes have remained essentially flat for years and they do not have the disposable income they might have once add. Part of that is due to the loss of manufacturing jobs....not much opportunity for unskilled and semi-skilled labor. The whole economic picture has gotten upended and there is little agreement on how it happened or what should be done.

sconnors · 09-25-2014, 07:55 PM

I agree with everything everyone has said above. Perhaps the moderators of the forum should relay the above issues, concerns, complaints, to the larger vendors and see if a) they'd be willing to have a rep on the Ford Barn, and b) if they would agree to work with owners towards getting better quality parts.

I'm all for American commerce, but I'd rather buy good quality parts from ONE source than TRYING to find that ONE vendor that sells that ONE good part I need. We end up hemorrhaging money going to three or four vendors to fined ONE part.

H. L. Chauvin · 09-25-2014, 08:01 PM

FWIW:

For those of us who appreciate good quality parts, I called Mr. Stipe earlier this week who reported that he is still accepting down payments for his new Model A shocks.

If we send in a down payment check this month we should receive shocks by end of January or beginning of February. Months appear to pass by like weeks lately.

After calling Bratton's, the guy who made new shocks for Bratton's went out of business -- not enough demand to continue production.

Sincerely hope this helps anybody thinking about new, good Model A shocks.

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 09-25-2014, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericr

You guys are correct of course but it is part of a larger picture. Many purchasers' incomes have remained essentially flat for years and they do not have the disposable income they might have once add. Part of that is due to the loss of manufacturing jobs....not much opportunity for unskilled and semi-skilled labor. The whole economic picture has gotten upended and there is little agreement on how it happened or what should be done.

Please allow me to remind us all about a fallacy that often traps many restorers. To start with, restoration work is much more than having a wallet full of money. As I stated above, learning to 'restore' instead of installing repro parts builds skills, ...AND most of the time it takes less money to restore a part back to a serviceable condition. It also does not take more than some basic tools and a will.

Tinbasher · 09-25-2014, 08:45 PM

Yes Aftermarket again stands for "Almost Fits" We have a member in our club that sells parts and most people don't give him the feed back on the parts. At least if he knows he will try to source better parts. My theory is. OEM First, Repair original 2nd. Find another original parts and repair.3rd. Last Aftermarket as a last resort. I've spent too many hours trying to make A/M parts fit only to end up with something passable.

The Old Tinbasher

armchair67 · 09-25-2014, 08:54 PM

"Buy the best and cry only once"-Gene Berg

That is a statement that we hold true at my company and we are slammed.

I wish those that made aftermarket auto parts would do the same. I get maybe having to finesse body parts to fit one hundred percent. I don't get making a part that is just straight up garbage, or something that would put reliability or safety at risk. I am new to Model A's as I mentioned, but was surprised to see the new ignition switch failing, and how poor the fit was on the new spark plug "leads" I picked up were. Not tight on the plug end at all, I had to pinch them in place.

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 09-25-2014, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by armchair67

"Buy the best and cry only once"-Gene Berg

That is a statement that we hold true at my company and we are slammed.

I wish those that made aftermarket auto parts would do the same. I get maybe having to finesse body parts to fit one hundred percent. I don't get making a part that is just straight up garbage, or something that would put reliability or safety at risk. I am new to Model A's as I mentioned, but was surprised to see the new ignition switch failing, and how poor the fit was on the new spark plug "leads" I picked up were. Not tight on the plug end at all, I had to pinch them in place.

With all due respect, why did you purchase the cheap new ignition switch instead of purchasing the restored original one that was twice the cost and twice the quality?? Maybe if you had purchased the best one, you wouldn't be crying.....

Tom Wesenberg · 09-25-2014, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by armchair67

"Buy the best and cry only once"-Gene Berg

That is a statement that we hold true at my company and we are slammed.

I wish those that made aftermarket auto parts would do the same. I get maybe having to finesse body parts to fit one hundred percent. I don't get making a part that is just straight up garbage, or something that would put reliability or safety at risk. I am new to Model A's as I mentioned, but was surprised to see the new ignition switch failing, and how poor the fit was on the new spark plug "leads" I picked up were. Not tight on the plug end at all, I had to pinch them in place.

The plug end should be a hole which is tightened by the brass spark plug nut. The distributor end is an open fork that is held against the distributor terminals be pressure. If properly bent with a slight curve, the plug straps work very well. Also be sure to buy the quality bronze straps with good spring pressure, and not the soft yellow brass straps.

Tinker · 09-25-2014, 10:09 PM

It's said that 38 fenders were drilled for fit on site. I can tell you trying to put a original fender from a same original year truck that it doest fit.

Everything needs to be worked it seems....

armchair67 · 09-25-2014, 10:40 PM

@Brent-LOL ! True-gimme a break I'm a newbie! The ignition switch I bought was the more expensive option, in fact was advertised as "Great Quality". Funny about this particular thread-one of the things I am doing is making a few safety upgrades since I am using this as a daily, and my kids are in it. Well that nice new "Ford" licensed LED taillight lamp assembly that I bought, brand new out of the package, seems to have been made by Lucas, the Price of Darkness, cause it doesn't work! So I put the 85 year old one back together, and will look into that restored switch you mentioned. Looks like we need to be on the lookout for items marked "NOS".

09-25-2014, 01:00 PM	#21
DougVieyra Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Eureka, California Posts: 1,716	Re: Parts Rant! sConners: "I have been quite dismayed by the parts that I order from a variety of suppliers. It seems I rarely get a part out of the box that fits correctly without some type of tweaking. This is a major frustration. I know these companies pay big money to license the Ford name so they can have it on their packaging and everything I get comes from Taiwan, or China or somewhere overseas. It’s amazing to me that working on an iconic American car I’m using cheap overseas parts that always need to be bent, filed, sanded, ground, cut, reshaped! It’s frustrating as a hobbyist and angers me as an American. " - Sconners, Post #1 _____________________ That is why, for some, it is much better to spend some time "cleaning up" an original Ford-Made part, and why BERT'S Model A Parts Center in Denver, has earned a reputation for being a source of such original parts. His inventory of original Ford-Made parts is quite extensive. Also, many of the other suppliers also occaisionally carry (much more limited) some original parts - it does not hurt to ASK them. - Doug Vieyra

09-25-2014, 01:11 PM	#22
DougVieyra Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Eureka, California Posts: 1,716	I only buy American ! I only buy American ! The gasoline I put in my gas tank, the oil I put in my crank case, and the grease in my lub gun - I insist, come only from either Texas, or California. No foreign 'cheap junk', 'ill-fitting' oil from Nigeria, Venezala, or Middle East. - Doug Vieyra, Jingoistic Docent, of the now closed Eureka FORD PLANT

09-25-2014, 01:25 PM	#23
brito36 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Marengo. Illinois Posts: 262	Re: Parts Rant! I have been buying reproduction parts for years, and I find that almost all are junk. As a business owner and I were to make a reproduction part, I would strive to make it identical to the original in both looks and function. I can't understand why vendors have these parts made in poor quality, when they could have an exact duplicate for a few bucks more. More people would buy them.

09-25-2014, 01:33 PM	#25
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: Parts Rant! we are lucky to have such a wide assortment of things available to us. enough that a car can be built out of a book such as john lavoys pick up truck. a lot of the issue has to do with experience on knowing what the different suppliers carry on certain items. many , many items are not created equal and ford barn is a great way to find that info out. i buy alot from different suppliers brattons, snyders, tams,etc for that reason.. the more experienced one becomes on who to call for a particular item will help with your jobs going smoother. for instance:: brattons carrys the best inner tubes out there right now, so if you buy from an alternative source than from them your likely to have inflation loss issues. pedal and shifter plates brattons carrys them unfiinished and snyders has them powder coated the light switches fit terrible which you were aware of from your previous posts stop light switches A&l makes the best i just used a brattons light harness with connectors and repo headlights. it all fit together perfect... not sure how the other jobbers parts are??? just a few examples on things so as mentioned experience goes a long way.. Last edited by Mitch//pa; 09-25-2014 at 02:45 PM.

09-25-2014, 01:44 PM	#26
H. L. Chauvin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,179	Re: Parts Rant! Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) There are also a few other things to consider: 1. In the 1950's, I remember only the poorest of the poor owning Model A's; restoration was at all not very popular; Model A's were a step above walking or riding a horse. 2. In the 1950's one could find tons of old armoires, wood stoves, & marble top dressers in the garbage; nobody wanted vintage stuff. 3. In the 1950's thousands of old buildings were demolished; nobody wanted old Victorian houses etc. 4. Then a little later, all of a sudden, "old" was "good" -- except for "old" people like us. LOL Last edited by H. L. Chauvin; 09-25-2014 at 01:44 PM. Reason: typo

09-25-2014, 05:34 PM	#28
CAPE A Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Cape Cod Posts: 62	Re: Parts Rant! Just pickedup running boards for my truck from a guy on the FB , said they were new asked what shape any rust ? no. Got them last nt. one has a 1/2 " bend in the outside edge the other has a slight bend each one had ben installed before. and some rust where they were mounted. To me that is not new. By the time one fixes them one will have lots more $ in them than if i bought new. Very disapointed in this Barn Member Problems with parts is fustrating being lied to is another.

09-25-2014, 06:57 PM	#29
JOES31 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: La Verne California Posts: 272	Re: Parts Rant! Brent, You are absolutely correct. The problem with poor quality parts is exactly as you stated. Model A owners will not pay for them and opt for the cheaper poor quality part. Not just Model A parts and owners but it is prevalent in our every day life as consumers. I can't tell you how many quality products have gone away because of cheaper poorley made copied product that consumers prefer to purchase. The best example is tools. Sk Wayne, Proto, Crescent, Evans are all gone. Now they are just names stamped on poorly made imported tools. All because the American consumer will not pay for the quality product. What most don't understand is, paying more for a quality part is always going to be less expensive in the long run. Easier installation and longer life. I too have had to waste hours fitting a repo part on my A because that is all that is available. The sour taste of a cheaply made product lasts far longer than the added expense of a quality properly built product.

09-25-2014, 07:07 PM	#30
H. L. Chauvin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,179	Re: Parts Rant! For business minded individuals with business common sense, please don't forget about our American system of "supply & demand." Why do all of the local good American stores close when a new American Wal-Mart comes in town & offers everything very cheap from China? Choices, choices of where to spend money. Parts vendors pay just as much inventory tax, land use & building tax, & utility costs for shelf items that move quickly & make money, as for the more expensive items that just sit on the shelf collect dust. No parts vendor can stay in business with a museum of non selling parts. Like Mr. Brent mentioned above, who is wiling to pay for good shocks? In my humble opinion, if it were extremely lucrative to sell "perfect" Model A parts, almost every State would have such a booming Model A parts business ..... but again, American "supply & demand" ...... don't even mention our American Congress ..... choices, choices ......... perfect example of the "majority" of everyday American "demand" & the final results. Agree 100% with all of the above that we can get better if & when we begin to "demand" better.

09-25-2014, 07:55 PM	#32
sconnors Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Stephentown Posts: 446	Re: Parts Rant! I agree with everything everyone has said above. Perhaps the moderators of the forum should relay the above issues, concerns, complaints, to the larger vendors and see if a) they'd be willing to have a rep on the Ford Barn, and b) if they would agree to work with owners towards getting better quality parts. I'm all for American commerce, but I'd rather buy good quality parts from ONE source than TRYING to find that ONE vendor that sells that ONE good part I need. We end up hemorrhaging money going to three or four vendors to fined ONE part.

09-25-2014, 08:01 PM	#33
H. L. Chauvin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,179	Re: Parts Rant! FWIW: For those of us who appreciate good quality parts, I called Mr. Stipe earlier this week who reported that he is still accepting down payments for his new Model A shocks. If we send in a down payment check this month we should receive shocks by end of January or beginning of February. Months appear to pass by like weeks lately. After calling Bratton's, the guy who made new shocks for Bratton's went out of business -- not enough demand to continue production. Sincerely hope this helps anybody thinking about new, good Model A shocks. Last edited by H. L. Chauvin; 09-25-2014 at 08:03 PM. Reason: typo

09-25-2014, 08:45 PM	#35
Tinbasher Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Innisfil, Ontario Canada Posts: 1,174	Re: Parts Rant! Yes Aftermarket again stands for "Almost Fits" We have a member in our club that sells parts and most people don't give him the feed back on the parts. At least if he knows he will try to source better parts. My theory is. OEM First, Repair original 2nd. Find another original parts and repair.3rd. Last Aftermarket as a last resort. I've spent too many hours trying to make A/M parts fit only to end up with something passable. The Old Tinbasher

09-25-2014, 08:54 PM	#36
armchair67 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Chicago, IL USA Posts: 115	Re: Parts Rant! "Buy the best and cry only once"-Gene Berg That is a statement that we hold true at my company and we are slammed. I wish those that made aftermarket auto parts would do the same. I get maybe having to finesse body parts to fit one hundred percent. I don't get making a part that is just straight up garbage, or something that would put reliability or safety at risk. I am new to Model A's as I mentioned, but was surprised to see the new ignition switch failing, and how poor the fit was on the new spark plug "leads" I picked up were. Not tight on the plug end at all, I had to pinch them in place.

09-25-2014, 10:09 PM	#39
Tinker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: MN Posts: 7,053	Re: Parts Rant! It's said that 38 fenders were drilled for fit on site. I can tell you trying to put a original fender from a same original year truck that it doest fit. Everything needs to be worked it seems....

09-25-2014, 10:40 PM	#40
armchair67 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Chicago, IL USA Posts: 115	Re: Parts Rant! @Brent-LOL ! True-gimme a break I'm a newbie! The ignition switch I bought was the more expensive option, in fact was advertised as "Great Quality". Funny about this particular thread-one of the things I am doing is making a few safety upgrades since I am using this as a daily, and my kids are in it. Well that nice new "Ford" licensed LED taillight lamp assembly that I bought, brand new out of the package, seems to have been made by Lucas, the Price of Darkness, cause it doesn't work! So I put the 85 year old one back together, and will look into that restored switch you mentioned. Looks like we need to be on the lookout for items marked "NOS".