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Old 12-01-2021, 08:18 PM   #1
Fred A
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Default Can I Use These Late Zephyr Front Brakes?

I have late Bendix/Zephyr front brakes? #44970 on the backing plates. They are the large bolt pattern. Spindles are the small pattern '32-'34. Kingpins are Lacy, flat bearing on top. The elegant adapters are also Lacy. These backing plates are the semi deepset. To save me some I time think there may be others that have successfully gone with the late Zephyr front brakes as they are now easier to find. Back in the early 60s I did this same thing using Zephyr spindles, sleeved to Ford kingpins. The axle needed to be modified for the difference in Zephyr/Ford king pin inclination. Easy then, unknown now. Any advice? Fred A
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Old 12-01-2021, 08:24 PM   #2
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Default Re: Can I Use These Late Zephyr Front Brakes?

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I have late Bendix/Zephyr front brakes? #44970 on the backing plates. They are the large bolt pattern. Spindles are the small pattern '32-'34. Kingpins are Lacy, flat bearing on top. The elegant adapters are also Lacy. These backing plates are the semi deepset. To save me some I time think there may be others that have successfully gone with the late Zephyr front brakes as they are now easier to find. Back in the early 60s I did this same thing using Zephyr spindles, sleeved to Ford kingpins. The axle needed to be modified for the difference in Zephyr/Ford king pin inclination. Easy then, unknown now. Any advice? Fred A
Hey Fred .....I know a LITTLE about some of this. EXACTLY what are you wanting to do? I assume that the adapters you speak of are to compensate for the different offset on the FRONT backing plates? DD
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Old 12-01-2021, 11:47 PM   #3
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Default Re: Can I Use These Late Zephyr Front Brakes?

Does anyone remember when Dave Wilton made a spacer to use the semi deep Bendix brakes? I think those were for 78- or 21- spindles, which I would like to avoid, preferring the B- spindles without the cheap assed arms for the drag link. The B- spindles at least have the right steering geometry. I can tolerate the ring adapter for the backing plate difference. If guys can suffer Zephyr's really deep '39 and '40s, semi deep '42-'48 Bendix front brakes should be easy. Without the book, might the Bendix drum hubs for all the Zephyr fronts be the same? This strengthens my plan for the B- spindles. Following the leader for too many builds never sees the art of using the Ford family of fine parts as we did decades ago. Good Luck: Fred A
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Old 12-02-2021, 12:40 AM   #4
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Default Re: Can I Use These Late Zephyr Front Brakes?

Fred, Like Coopman, I'm asking you for more information. You need to tell us what you're trying to achieve Which axle, spindles, backing plates, drums? Sounds like straight away, you've got incompatibility between stud of spindles and Lincoln backing plates, not to mention back spacings. Please, tell us all the details.
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Old 12-02-2021, 01:24 AM   #5
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Default Re: Can I Use These Late Zephyr Front Brakes?

You could make your own version of the adapter rings, with the B register on the spindle side and the Lincoln pilot on the backing plate, drill for 3/8" bolts, and do the common notch for the bolts on the backing plates.

Maybe easier to use rear plates, weld the e-brake cable hole shut, and use the common juice brake adapter kit.

Don't know about top bearing clearance; maybe need to use the thin needle bearings under the axle to make it work.

Here's a couple pics of the normal Lincoln spacer for '37 up spindles.
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File Type: jpg lincoln adapter.jpg (60.2 KB, 44 views)
File Type: jpg lincoln adapter 2.JPG (115.8 KB, 37 views)
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Old 12-02-2021, 02:42 AM   #6
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Default Re: Can I Use These Late Zephyr Front Brakes?

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Originally Posted by Fred A View Post
Does anyone remember when Dave Wilton made a spacer to use the semi deep Bendix brakes? I think those were for 78- or 21- spindles, which I would like to avoid, preferring the B- spindles without the cheap assed arms for the drag link. The B- spindles at least have the right steering geometry. I can tolerate the ring adapter for the backing plate difference. If guys can suffer Zephyr's really deep '39 and '40s, semi deep '42-'48 Bendix front brakes should be easy. Without the book, might the Bendix drum hubs for all the Zephyr fronts be the same? This strengthens my plan for the B- spindles. Following the leader for too many builds never sees the art of using the Ford family of fine parts as we did decades ago. Good Luck: Fred A

Fred ....Man, I kind'a like your attitude, and I like where you're headed with this. Neal Jennings (NealinCa), the Hudson steering box guy, did something similar on his famous 10-year-long chassis build. He wanted to retain the beautiful look (and geometry) of the '32-'34 spindles, as well as use REAL Lincoln brakes.

After a little measuring, he found that the '42-'48 "square" spindles measure about 1/4" larger than the '32-'34 spindle all the way around. He took the '32-'34 spindles, welded-up the backing plate holes, then wrapped a piece of 1/4" square bar around, "V'd" it and welded it front & back. Then of course, he carefully re-drilled the four holes in the spindles for the later, larger size. To make things simple, find a pair of the REAR, Lincoln backing plates, weld-up the little holes for the parking brakes, and you're there WITHOUT having to use spacers and other superfluous bullchit. As you can see, Neal's stuff turned-out "killer". Would somethin' like that work for ya? DD








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Old 12-02-2021, 03:01 AM   #7
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Default Re: Can I Use These Late Zephyr Front Brakes?

This question is about front brakes only. No doubt that rear backing plates have the "right offset" and would be a simple bolt on with the exception of the spindle pattern. Looks like I would do well to mockup the front axle and try the components that I'll try to make work. Think a 32 axle, spindle to spindle. The kingpins are low profile replacing the mechanical brake ball top as used with mechanical brakes. Likely no clearance problems from the spindles/backing plates. Next is the old fashion ring adapter to match the difference of the earlier spindle to the larger backing plate. It may well be that the spindle nose is standard Ford/Zephyr spec as the hubs are the same from '39 to '48. If that works, and it's a big if, the bakes are assembled normally with the proper matching parts. My fault is expecting that other barners may have used the later Zephyr front brakes since they are by far the most available. If I find a single REAR Bendix backing plate to match one that I already have, that would be the first choice for this roadster project. Repops on an open wheel front are not an option. I can spot them from a great distance, and they spoil the vintage look. The adapter rings would be an option if I would use the common roundie spindles, but they are butt ugly on an open wheel car. I won't. I did use them on my'40 as the '37 style spindles are correct and only need a small bit of grinding to fit. Finally, I would only use the Ford Lockheed brakes for door stops even they are correct on my '40. Thanks for asking: Fred A
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Old 12-02-2021, 03:24 AM   #8
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Default Re: Can I Use These Late Zephyr Front Brakes?

Neal Jennings front end is clearly beautiful. I have often thought of modifying 21A spindles by trimming the top bushing for clearance. The missing part is that I have no real '41 front or any year rear Bendix brakes with the outer rings. I'm out there looking but as yet have not found any within my budget. I am ass deep in the left over '42 to '48 fronts including the special drums. My abilities at fabrication have faded and energy limited to bolt on remedies. Even Dennis Lacy, with great access to brakes chose to add the rings on his pickup project featured on this site. He too knows ugly. With the current supply of original brakes, my question has some relevance. Thanks for the intrest: Fred A
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Old 12-02-2021, 10:31 PM   #9
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Default Re: Can I Use These Late Zephyr Front Brakes?

I'm sorry Fred, but your posts are still not giving all the information; what drums are you wanting to run? Basically, you've got these issues to work through; the differing stud patterns of your early spindles and the backing plates, and the offset of your backing plates to correctly position the shoes within the drums, along with the required spindle trimming etc...in the pictures that coop shows, those backing plates have a different offset to what you're wanting to run correct? Yours are deeper, are they not? But not as deep as the 'bolt onto early spindles' 39-40 Lincoln type?
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Old 12-03-2021, 12:15 AM   #10
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Default Re: Can I Use These Late Zephyr Front Brakes?

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I'm sorry Fred, but your posts are still not giving all the information; what drums are you wanting to run? Basically, you've got these issues to work through; the differing stud patterns of your early spindles and the backing plates, and the offset of your backing plates to correctly position the shoes within the drums, along with the required spindle trimming etc...in the pictures that coop shows, those backing plates have a different offset to what you're wanting to run correct? Yours are deeper, are they not? But not as deep as the 'bolt onto early spindles' 39-40 Lincoln type?

And just as a reference, these are the three different variations (offsets) of Lincoln FRONT plates, and of course, the '41 being the only FRONT that matches the same offset as Ford LOCKHEEDS, with the offset that requires no spacers when using FORD drums.

I'M NOTICING that the early plate on the LEFT does NOT have the outer ring. Is this some sort of anomaly, or is it possible THIS plate just lost it's outer ring? What are the three rivet-head-looking gizmos located at 10 o'clock, 2 o'clock and 6 o'clock at perimeter? DD


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Old 12-03-2021, 12:40 AM   #11
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Default Re: Can I Use These Late Zephyr Front Brakes?

of course, the '41 being the only FRONT that matches the same offset as Ford LOCKHEEDS, with the offset that requires no spacers when using FORD drums.

Which FORD drums?? 42-48? Fred needs to stipulate which drums he wants to use!!
Not All drums have the same backspacing.
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Old 01-11-2022, 12:11 PM   #12
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Default Here Is What Really Worked!

This is an old thread, but so often where there has been such a good response the OP often disappears without resolving the question.
From the axle out: Ford axle; '32-'34 spindle; Lacy adapter kit; Lacy kingpin kit; Complete '42-'48 front brakes including drums. This is not my favorite combination as it violates the principles of frontend geometry. Overall, this is better than the more antiquated Ford/Lockheed brakes. I nearly always use the Zephyr brakes honoring my father's dictating their use since 1962.
As for DD's '39-'40 backing plate sample, the desirable ring was foully torn off. Thanks for the many lessons in antique Ford anatomy DD. Fred A
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Old 01-11-2022, 01:49 PM   #13
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Default Re: Here Is What Really Worked!

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This is an old thread, but so often where there has been such a good response the OP often disappears without resolving the question.
From the axle out: Ford axle; '32-'34 spindle; Lacy adapter kit; Lacy kingpin kit; Complete '42-'48 front brakes including drums. This is not my favorite combination as it violates the principles of frontend geometry. Overall, this is better than the more antiquated Ford/Lockheed brakes. I nearly always use the Zephyr brakes honoring my father's dictating their use since 1962.
As for DD's '39-'40 backing plate sample, the desirable ring was foully torn off. Thanks for the many lessons in antique Ford anatomy DD. Fred A

Well, thank you Fred! For as long as I remember, I have had this obsessive fascination with '32-'48 Ford (and Lincoln) running gear bits and pieces, especially the front and rear axle stuff. It still amazes me that so much of this stuff can be swapped-around, and even used as a basis for modification in old, traditional hot rod chassis builds, not unlike the sort of stuff that Neal Jennings turns-out. Heaven knows though, that I still have a lot to learn! DD
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