"It ran well when I parked it!"

[Grampy]

As the saying goes: "It ran well when I parked it!"
It has been sitting in the garage for a little more than a year. Tried to start it the other day. Fired right up, but running very rough, almost like weak and intermittent spark, or maybe a cylinder not firing.
Investigation and tests show:
- Drained fuel tank, replaced with fresh gas. Good flow.
- Good spark at distributer and all plugs.
- Compression check, #4 = 95, #3 = 95, #2 =95, #1 = 0,
AHA!! That might be the problem!

No apparent leak around head gasket.
No metallic sound ( with or w/o stethoscope.

Any additional thoughts?
What would be your plan of attack?

[red or green]

Not uncommon for a valve to stick open when setting for a long time.
You can verify by pulling the side cover or you could be able to look into the cylinder thru the plug hole. I have a buddy that got a real good bore scope attachment for his smart phone, cheap.
The problem is that the crud that is hanging the valve is on the top of the stem. Pulling the manifolds will let you get to the valve stems.
I'd soak, using Seafoam on the valve stem(s) to free it up. It eats carbon...Marvel Mystery oil too.
That's my plan of attack though I might just go to pulling the manifolds first and see if it is obvious that a valve stem isn't moving and save a side cover gasket.

Good luck

[Mulletwagon]

Might try sucking in some MMO through the carb before any major disassembly.

[Patrick L.]

Yep, i agree. Sounds like a hung valve.

You can try freeing it thru the plug hole, or, pull the side cover. The manifolds don't have to be removed.

[WHN]

Marvel Mystery Oil. Pour it into the cylinders and in gas. Let it sit for a couple of days. Than start it up and go for a drive.

Don’t start taking things apart.

Enjoy.

[McMimmcs]

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Originally Posted by WHN

Marvel Mystery Oil. Pour it into the cylinders and in gas. Let it sit for a couple of days. Than start it up and go for a drive.

Don’t start taking things apart.

Enjoy.

Great advice! Worked for me.

[Grampy]

Thanks for the quick (and pretty much unanimous) responses.
Tomorrow I'll be off to the auto parts store to pick up some MMO.
Seafoam was also mentioned. That's new to me, but I'll look into it.

I'll update you with the results in a day or two.
Thanks again!

[updraught]

Use a plastic squirt type bottle and squirt it at the valve stem thru the spark plug hole. Some sort of penetrating oil will do. Lots of smoke when started.

[SeaSlugs]

Originally Posted by updraught

Use a plastic squirt type bottle and squirt it at the valve stem thru the spark plug hole. Some sort of penetrating oil will do. Lots of smoke when started.

if you know someone who wears contacts - those contact solution bottles have a tiny opening in the tip to shoot a fine stream (think like pencil lead width) exactly where you want it. Fill with MMO and hit right on the valve stems.

[Jeff/Illinois]

Originally Posted by WHN

Marvel Mystery Oil. Pour it into the cylinders and in gas. Let it sit for a couple of days. Than start it up and go for a drive.

Don’t start taking things apart.

Enjoy.

That is exactly what I would do too. Worth a try. Simpler than starting to pull parts off. Breaking a mounting stud on your intake, etc.

I have been a firm believer in MMO in my gasoline for years for the old cars. Today's dry gasoline loves to stick valves. We had that in the Flathead. Ever since the MMO treatment it came out of running rough and purrs like a kitty!

[Patrick L.]

A number of responses say to remove the manifolds. Why would they be removed just to free up a valve. The side cover comes off pretty quickly and easily.

[Grampy]

UPDATE:

I followed the game plan from above - MMO in the oil and as best I could to the valves as well. replaced the plugs and fired it up. Ran it at a moderate idle for about 4 -5 minutes. No sign of change or improvement.

So I shut it off and , with a big pout on my face, I removed the valve cover (without removing the manifolds or the carburetor), and this is what I saw!
IMG_1316.jpg

Can't push it up, can't pull it down.
Is there a recommended procedure to follow at this point short of pulling the head and delicately addressing the valve with a hammer?!

[Synchro909]

Squirt some MMO or other penetrating lube in at the top as described above and leave it alone. You might have to add more lube but once should do it. One morning, you'll come out to the garage and see the valve has returned to its proper position. Patience is a virtue here and tearing into pulling it apart will probably prove to be a waste of time.
I've never used MMO - too expensive at $110 for a US gallon. That's only 3.8 litres.

[Tom Wesenberg]

After soaking the stem top and bottom for a day or two, then use a thin Vice Grip to grab the bottom and see if it will turn and drop down. Slow careful back and forth motion on the vice grip might do the trick.

[Patrick L.]

Yep, I agree. Some SeaFoam, penetrating oil, etc, sprayed from the top and bottom should help. Pry and tap straight down on spring retainer. It'll free up.

Then repeat the process to make sure its free before buttoning it up.

[fuzes45]

Can use ATF and Acetone 50 -50 mix or Kroil
Bob

[burner31]

Originally Posted by Grampy

UPDATE:

I followed the game plan from above - MMO in the oil and as best I could to the valves as well. replaced the plugs and fired it up. Ran it at a moderate idle for about 4 -5 minutes. No sign of change or improvement.

So I shut it off and , with a big pout on my face, I removed the valve cover (without removing the manifolds or the carburetor), and this is what I saw!
Attachment 471565

Can't push it up, can't pull it down.
Is there a recommended procedure to follow at this point short of pulling the head and delicately addressing the valve with a hammer?!

If the MMO and soaking doesn't do the trick, take your valve spring compressor and remove the spring...if possible, you may be able to work it loose after that...and I can't stress this enough...do not push it up anymore.

[SeaSlugs]

Originally Posted by fuzes45

Can use ATF and Acetone 50 -50 mix or Kroil
Bob

I love kroil, its the one stuff that finds a way out of its own can. Wish it wasnt so dang expensive.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by SeaSlugs

I love kroil, its the one stuff that finds a way out of its own can. Wish it wasnt so dang expensive.

I also like Kroil, which cost me $18 for the last can.

Gibbs is also a very good penetrating oil for about the same price.

[Grampy]

Alright, last night I pulled off the manifolds and applied a generous amount of MMO to the top of the valve guide. Repeated the application again this morning, and will again this evening if necessary.

I'm investing a great amount of patience with this adventure!
I'm thinking about trying to locate some Kroil if it hasn't come loose by tonight

I'm grateful for the helpful suggestions and the interest you've shown in helping me through this.

[Patrick L.]

I'm kinda surprised that it won't free up. With soaking the heck out of it from the top [ thru the plug hole] and at the guide, then prying straight down or as Tom suggests tapping down on vise grips.

It seems unlikely but I wonder if somehow something got stuck between the face and seat and bent the valve.

Again, if it does free-up, roll the engine over a few times to make sure it stays free before putting it back together. It may take a few more squirts to keep it free.

[Grampy]

Tonight's Update: PROGRESS!!

I put the vice grip on the end of the valve really tight and tried to rotate it just a little bit at a time, making sure I wasn't slipping the vice grip on the valve.

Sure enough, in wee little increments the valve was rotating and squeaking a bit as it did. It wasn't moving freely or easily, but it was moving. I began to add a downward force on the V-grip while turning these little bits.

It didn't seem to want to go any more, (or maybe I was just nervous, not wanting to damage anything). I decided to check out what was happening.

The result is that the valve is about half the distance closer to the lifter than it was before!!

I did my happy dance (not something you'd want to see), and decided to apply more more penetrating oil and try it again in the morning.

[Grampy]

I had to leave for a few days, but back now to continue the fight!

We left it with MMO and penetrating oil all over the valve guide and valve stem. I was hoping the fluids sitting there would sink in and do their work and I'd come back to a valve stem sitting on the lifter waiting to fire right up and go for a drive.

But no. Such was not the case. That rascal was right where I left it!

I continued the Vice Grip and rotation pattern, thinking the time sitting would have loosened it even just a little bit, But it's just as before.

I'm thinking the next step is to remove the head and replace the valve and guide.

What do you guys think?

[Eccentric Old Guy]

Originally Posted by Grampy

I had to leave for a few days, but back now to continue the fight!

We left it with MMO and penetrating oil all over the valve guide and valve stem. I was hoping the fluids sitting there would sink in and do their work and I'd come back to a valve stem sitting on the lifter waiting to fire right up and go for a drive.

But no. Such was not the case. That rascal was right where I left it!

I continued the Vice Grip and rotation pattern, thinking the time sitting would have loosened it even just a little bit, But it's just as before.

I'm thinking the next step is to remove the head and replace the valve and guide.

What do you guys think?

I wonder if you hand cranked the motor, and put a thin feeler gage between the lifter and valve stem, you might be able to break it loose that way.

[Patrick L.]

Rotating it probably won't do any good, you're probably just spinning the retainer. Clamp the vise grips on the retainer really really tight and tap down. You need to pull the valve down. Soak the heck out of it and then turn the engine over by hand to make sure the valve is really free. This may have to be done a couple times.

[ronn]

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Grampy, going through the same things as you and grateful for this thread!


let my rpu sit for at least 2 yrs, fired it up yesterday and ran for about 5 seconds. end of story.
I replaced the plugs, condensor, cleaned the points, checked the ammeter with a jump and even jumped the ignition. shes dead. so now Im going to the valves, just like you........... always somethin somthin! I ant laughin, though I know its nuthin.

[Ruth]

I usually have success with spraying carburetor cleaner thru the spark plug hole directly at the valve stem. Carb cleaner eats the dried up varnish where MMO just lubes the stem. Once loose I then use Seafoam in the gas.

[Grampy]

We were tapping downward on the vice grip which was firmly attached to the bottom of the valve stem, not the retainer.

We generously applied PB Blaster Penetrating Catalyst thorough the spark plug hole and the valve chamber, and with some rotation of the vice grip and the downward tapping we were able to bring the valve lower, almost to the lifter. Not to imply that it easily slipped down; it was slow progress in very small increments.

Next logical step was to grab the hand crank. We turned it over several rotations and the valve lifted to it's open position . . . and stayed there!!

I'm right back where I started.

I'm going to let it sit for a couple of days and jump back into it on Saturday. The temperature is supposed to drop to a reasonable level - out of the 100's.
Meanwhile, I'll keep it well lubricated, I'll even try using carb cleaner.
Why not, I've used everything else known to humankind!!

[nkaminar]

If the carb cleaner does not work then I think you have to bite the bullet and pull the head to remove the valve and valve guide. You might be able to clean up things and put them back but you also may have to ream the guide. You may be able to ream the guide with it installed in the engine but clean up all the duff that is generated using whatever works.

[W1LSU]

Originally Posted by Grampy

As the saying goes: "It ran well when I parked it!"
It has been sitting in the garage for a little more than a year. Tried to start it the other day. Fired right up, but running very rough, almost like weak and intermittent spark, or maybe a cylinder not firing.
Investigation and tests show:
- Drained fuel tank, replaced with fresh gas. Good flow.
- Good spark at distributer and all plugs.
- Compression check, #4 = 95, #3 = 95, #2 =95, #1 = 0,
AHA!! That might be the problem!

No apparent leak around head gasket.
No metallic sound ( with or w/o stethoscope.

Any additional thoughts?
What would be your plan of attack?

Have you checked the spark plug gap? I read in the Ford Service Bulletin that the gap changed from 0.027" to 0.035". Engine will not idle well. I hope this might help.

[Patrick L.]

If the valve moved back up when the engine was hand cranked over, I think thats a goos thing.

Seems like it should be able to be made to be pulled back down. As stated it should take a few tries to get it completely free. Spray from the top and bottom and twisting with tapping it down should work. This has been going on for too long.

I'm wondering if the valve is bent. If something got under the face it may have bent it.

I have a feeling you want to take the head off. I think that'll be a bigger challenge.

[Grampy]

Had another assignment that took me away for a couple days, but maybe it was a good thing to leave it sitting there with a bunch of PB Blaster sitting on everything.

I went into the garage tonight fully expecting to pull the head, but thought I would hand crank the engine one more time just to give it another chance. WOW!!! The valve went up and down several times just like a real valve should! I had to do it a couple more times just to convince myself that it was really working!

So tomorrow I'm going to begin reassembling everything I had unassembled, I'm pretty sure I've got new gaskets on hand. The biggest task will be retorquing the head bolts. I had removed the bolts but the head is still intact. But still, proper torqueing procedures are still called for.

Update in a day or two.

[Patrick L.]

Good !

[Grampy]

Sorry I've not gotten back to you sooner with an update, but I've been out cruising around in what seems to be a happy and healthy engine!!

I'm a bit nervous that there may be an unknown gremlin in there waiting to surprise me. But I feel that if I go for a little spin every two or three days, I'll keep him at bay! And it's fun for me!

I thank all of you who responded with suggestions, ideas, support, and encouragement. It was helpful and fun to have all of you on the job with me!

Grampy

[Jacksonlll]

Take it on longer and longer trips and your confidence will build to the point that you are ready to drive it to Chicago. Just an old saying. Have fun.