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Old 02-06-2021, 04:21 PM   #221
Synchro909
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

We're getting a bit off track here but China is trying to break up America's allies one at a time and once there are none left, they will come after the US. Wake up, America.
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Old 02-07-2021, 02:47 AM   #222
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

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I know it would cause downstream problems for the whole world for a while but how long do you think the Chinese Government would last if Australia stopped sending iron ore to them? Would a new Government be more reasonable? This matter affects not only our hobby but everything that comes out of China. IMO, It's high time we brought these jobs back and to hell with the accountants who only want to increase profits at whatever collateral expense.
We could stop our 4c per litre gas sale to these bullies
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Old 02-16-2021, 04:32 PM   #223
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Block Update..

To all of you who have an interest in purchasing the new Block Kit and have returned an order form to us. The first delivery of block kits are on the water now. The ETA port of LA is 2 March. We expect to have blocks available at the Hawthorn, CA distribution center by around the 10-12th of March. In the meantime, we will contact those of you who will receive block kits this production, to make arrangements for pick up or delivery. Also, note: the lightened flywheel production has been delayed and will not be arriving with the block kits. We expect the flywheels will be available by mid-April in the warehouse and we will notify everyone when they arrive.

The first production was a limited quantity, and many of you on the wait list will not get a block kit this round however, you will be placed at the top of the list for the next round of deliveries later this spring. We will update the new production schedule within the next 2-3 weeks and expect to get firm spring delivery dates for you by then.

John
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Old 02-16-2021, 05:21 PM   #224
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Thanks John, we are so looking forward to this!
Ted
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Old 02-16-2021, 06:39 PM   #225
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

I'm not on the list, but this is wonderful news.
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Old 02-17-2021, 01:05 PM   #226
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

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Quote:
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Block Update..

To all of you who have an interest in purchasing the new Block Kit and have returned an order form to us. The first delivery of block kits are on the water now. The ETA port of LA is 2 March. We expect to have blocks available at the Hawthorn, CA distribution center by around the 10-12th of March. In the meantime, we will contact those of you who will receive block kits this production, to make arrangements for pick up or delivery. Also, note: the lightened flywheel production has been delayed and will not be arriving with the block kits. We expect the flywheels will be available by mid-April in the warehouse and we will notify everyone when they arrive.

The first production was a limited quantity, and many of you on the wait list will not get a block kit this round however, you will be placed at the top of the list for the next round of deliveries later this spring. We will update the new production schedule within the next 2-3 weeks and expect to get firm spring delivery dates for you by then.

John
I think I am on the wait list but do not recall submitting an actual form. How can i verify I am indeed on the waitlist?

Thankyou.
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Old 02-24-2021, 02:29 AM   #227
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Russ, and others,

I apologize for any confusion regarding how to order, the list, and the form.

My son Jesse updated the website (http://www.modelaengine.com/) with a tab on "How to Order".

Go to the website and click on the "How to Order" tab.

Read about picking up parts at the warehouse to avoid shipping costs, and combining orders to save on shipping costs.

Where it says "To place an order", click on docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScH3amSUnxYHfRF2ToR2wz8yB5Ghrs4MDGBIq9hejq8 FvzMkQ/viewform?gxids=7628

A form will pop up that needs to be filled out.

Fill out page 1 of the form with your contact information, the number of parts requested, and if you will be picking them up at the warehouse or need shipping.

At the bottom of page 1, click next.

Page 2 will pop up.

Move the button to the right where it says "Send me a copy of my responses".

Then, you can go back to edit, and when you are done, click "Submit".

Once submitted, you will get a return email assuring you that you are on the list, and John Lampl and Bill Percival will send an invoice to you that includes shipping and sales tax.

Terry Burtz
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Old 02-24-2021, 03:18 PM   #228
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

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Originally Posted by Terry Burtz, Calif View Post
Russ, and others,

I apologize for any confusion regarding how to order, the list, and the form.

My son Jesse updated the website (http://www.modelaengine.com/) with a tab on "How to Order".

Go to the website and click on the "How to Order" tab.

Read about picking up parts at the warehouse to avoid shipping costs, and combining orders to save on shipping costs.

Where it says "To place an order", click on docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScH3amSUnxYHfRF2ToR2wz8yB5Ghrs4MDGBIq9hejq8 FvzMkQ/viewform?gxids=7628

A form will pop up that needs to be filled out.

Fill out page 1 of the form with your contact information, the number of parts requested, and if you will be picking them up at the warehouse or need shipping.

At the bottom of page 1, click next.

Page 2 will pop up.

Move the button to the right where it says "Send me a copy of my responses".

Then, you can go back to edit, and when you are done, click "Submit".

Once submitted, you will get a return email assuring you that you are on the list, and John Lampl and Bill Percival will send an invoice to you that includes shipping and sales tax.

Terry Burtz
Thanks for the clarification. Leonard Nettles verified I am on the list. ...just anxiously awaiting for my name to come up for the invoice.
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Old 02-28-2021, 07:45 PM   #229
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Hello:
I am new to the hobby and saw this post regarding new engines.
I have a question regarding the cost of an engine overall.

I see in the link you've provided that cost is $3500 dollars for basic parts " 5-Main block, Crankshaft, Connecting Rods "but doesn't clarify if bearings and what other parts come with cost of $3500? Does that cost cover short block price with the ancillary items included to assemble it or is everything extra? How do I find out what the extra parts will cost?
I have a 29 Tudor that needs an engine rebuilt and I'm weighing options of rebuilding it versus replacing it. Can you clarify what an engine would cost?
I have estimated through the rebuilders what my engine may cost but I don't know what a new one will cost all in?
Thanks
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Old 02-28-2021, 10:57 PM   #230
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Michael,

Thanks for your questions and concerns.

In regards to rebuilding or replace, the "New Engine Kit" replaces the original frail parts that are not designed to modern standards, may have been miss-machined in a prior rebuild, and maybe near the end of their fatigue life.

Before rebuilding, your original engine will need to be completely disassembled, cleaned, and evaluated. Common problems found include cracks, need for cylinder sleeves, need for valve seat inserts, and need for camshaft bushings. After evaluation, the cost of a rebuild can be determined.

The "New Engine Kit" looks identical to an original engine on the exterior and most of the parts from your old engine can be salvaged for building a new engine because the interfaces for attaching parts on the "New Engine Kit" are identical to the interfaces on an original engine.

The $3500 is an introductory price for those that are on the "How to Order" list before the end of March 2021. After the end of March, the price will be $3950 from us or you can buy from a parts retailer or an engine rebuilder.

This is what you will receive in the "New Engine Kit".

Cylinder Block
Qty 1, cylinder block with 4 hard exhaust seats, 5 cam bearings, and 10 cylinder block/main cap dowel pins installed. The following loose parts are either assembled to the cylinder block or they are packaged separately.
Qty 5, main caps
Qty 4, stepped (7/16 UNF x 1/2 UNF) studs for #1 and #3 main bearings
Qty 4, 1/2-20 UNF tall castle nuts for #1 and #3 main bearing studs
Qty 4, 7/16 UNC x 7/16 UNF studs for #2 and #4 main bearings
Qty 8, 7/16-20 UNF 12-point nuts for main bearing studs #1, #2, #3, and #4
Qty 2, 1/2 UNC x 1/2 UNF studs for #5 main bearing
Qty 2, 1/2-20 UNF 12-point nuts for main bearing #5 studs
Qty 2, 1/2-13 x 3/8 UNC setscrew for main oil galley end plug
Qty 5, 3/8-16 x 1/4 UNC setscrew for oil galley plug
Qty 1, 7/16 x 3/8 UNC setscrew for oil galley plug
Qty 1, 1/8-27 NPT slotted plug
Qty 2, dowel pins for cylinder block/flywheel housing interface
Qty 3, thrust washer half
Qty 6, 8-32 x 3/8 Phillips flat head brass screw for thrust washer halves
Qty 4, special small diameter studs with hardware used for line boring of main bearings 1 and 3 (to be discarded after verification of match marks)

Crankshaft
Qty 1, dynamically balanced crankshaft with 2 rear dowel pins, 4 setscrew oil passage plugs, and 1 Woodruff key installed.

Connecting Rod
Qty 4, balanced connecting rods each with wrist pin bushing, 2 dowel pins at the cap interface installed, and 2, 12-point 3/8-16 x 1 1/4 UNF bolts.

To minimize cost and assuming that you will be using everything possible from your old engine needing a rebuild, you will need to buy a gasket set, standard size pistons and rings, a Federal Mogul 415035 rear main seal, and 12 pairs of Federal Mogul 2020cp standard inserts.

Check with whoever you buy Model A parts from for prices, and check online or retail suppliers of modern car parts for the Federal Mogul seal and insert bearings.

For more information including "How to Order", the "Builders Guide", "Doubling the Flow Area of a Model A Oil Pump", and "Installing an Oil Filter", see www.modelaengine.com
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Old 03-01-2021, 06:03 AM   #231
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

If you decide that rebuilding your current engine is too expensive for what you will end up with and decide to go this route, IMO, the best way to source the required "extra bits" is to cannibalise your old engine.
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Old 03-01-2021, 12:57 PM   #232
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

You mention 1- cylinder block with 4 hard valve seat. What are the intake valve seats comprised of?
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Old 03-01-2021, 06:58 PM   #233
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

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You mention 1- cylinder block with 4 hard valve seat. What are the intake valve seats comprised of?
Intake valves seat on the cast iron of the block, just like the originals. They don't get anywhere near as hot as the exhaust valves and don't need hardened seats.
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Old 03-07-2021, 04:57 PM   #234
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Thank you, Mr. Burtz, for your reply post but it was not comprehensive enough to provide me and probably most potential customers with a total dollar amount for a complete running engine after purchasing your engine kit. My engine man gave me the following estimate shown below that includes the price of your engine kit added to the cost of the necessary parts and labor for a complete running engine ready to install, except for the cost of freight to receive your kit.



According to my engine manís analysis of my engine, he showed me which parts were needed to be replaced and why and I trust his experience and judgement explicitly. Plus, based on comparison with other shops, my engine manís estimate appears to be in line with most high quality shops in the U.S. and I want it done right. However, now that I know the total amount, I must admit I am somewhat shocked and completely disappointed that the total cost for a complete running engine is much more than I anticipated when including the purchase of your engine kit. The amount will come to a total of near 8000 DOLLARS after adding freight!



Consequently, I now feel that rebuilding my old engine is the best course for me and will serve my needs and not break the bank. Iím speaking for myself of course but I also feel that the average Model Aíer will be burdened with an expense that many canít and wonít afford with the purchase of your engine kit added to the other costs; itís just too expensive for the majority of the Model A crowd. My opinion.



Best regards,



Michael Johnson

Estimate I got from engine man's description of parts I would need to be "All In"
Quantity Item Description Unit Price Amount

8.00 A6513 VALVE SPRINGS EA. 0.80 6.40

8.00 A6514 VALVE KEEPER 1.75 14.00

1.00 FEL-PRO HEAD GASKET 7013C 30.00

1.00 A6149-020 PISTON RINGS (HASTING).STD 47.75

1.00 A6108-020 PISTONS SET OF 4 .STD 94.00

1.00 A6500SLS ADJ. TAPPETS SINGLE SET 8* 112.00

1.00 A65058 VALVES (STNLS) SET OF 8 63.00

1.00 A6510 VALVE GUIDES SET OF 8 55.00

1.00 A606466HD CHROME MOLLY STUD & NUT SET 40.00

1.00 A6319 RATCHET NUT 12.75



1.00 A6400 FLYWHEEL SHIM PR. 1.50

1.00 A6259 CAMSHAFT NUT 5.50

1.00 A6312A CRANKSHAFT PULLEY (2 PIECES) 30.00

1.00 A6256LS LAMINATED TIMING GEARS STD 76.50

1.00 A6378MB FLYWHEEL HOUSING BLOCK BOLTS 5.25

1.00 A6306 CRANKSHAFT GEAR STEEL 22.00

1.00 A627576 CAMSHAFT THRUST PLUNGER 4.00

1.00 A6763 OIL FILLER PIPE 15.00

1.00 A6766P OIL CAP POWDER COATED BLACK 6.50

1.00 A6023 TIMING PIN 5.00

1.00 A6551 OIL PUMP DRIVE GEAR 24.00

1.00 A6570 LONG SPRING 1.50

1.00 A6648MB OIL PIPE MOUNTING BOLT SET 1.50

1.00 A6730 DRAIN PLUG 3.00

1.00 A6520MB VALVE COVER BOLT SET CAD 2.75

1.00 A6600 OIL PUMP REBUILD KIT 29.00

Quantity Item Description Unit Price Amount

1.00 A6676 OIL PAN BOLTS 4.75

1.00 A6376 FLYWHEEL BOLT 4 PCS 13.00

1.00 A6017MB SIDE COVER BOLT SET 4.75

1.00 A6019MB TIMING COVER BOLT SET 6.75

1.00 A6010H CAST IRON HEAD NEW HI COMP 38LBS 325.00

1.00 B-6250-N CAMSHAFT 456.00



1.00 A6310 OIL SLINGER 3.50

1.00 A6008CLH GASKET SET WITH NO HEAD GASKET 18.00

1.00 A7550 CLUTCH DISC 37.50

1.00 A7600 PILOT BEARING 15.00

1.00 A7609 FLYWHEEL DOWEL RETAINER 2.00

1.00 A8250A WATER OUTLET ON HEAD 1928-29 28.00



1.00 A8255C WATER OUTLET GASKET COPPER 5.00

1.00 A8255MB WATER INLET MOUNT. BOLT SET 3.00

1.00 A9433C MANIFOLD GASKET COPPER 2 PCS 13.00

1.00 A9431 MANIFOLD STUD 4 PCS 4.25

1.00 A9443 STUD WASHERS 4 PCS 4.75

1.00 A9440 GLAND RINGS 4 PCS 2.50

1.00 A9425W INTAKE MANIFOLD DRILLED 87.00

1.00 A9430 EXHAUST MANIFOLD 92.00

1.00 A9430S STEEL MANIFOLD NUTS 4 PCS 1.50

1.00 A12127 DISTRIBUTOR SCREW & LOCK NUT 1.50

1.00 A12249 LOWER SHAFT 3.50

1.00 A8501MB WATER PUMP MOUNTING STUDS SET 2.50

Subtotal 1,878.15

Burtz short block $3950
Burtz flywheel $300
Sealed power 2020Cp x12 $65.88
Federal Mogul 415035 1 $20.00

Engine man's labor to machine and assemble the engine:
Model A to assemble engine $500

Rebuild oil pump $60

Resurface and modify new head $250

Rebuild pressure plate $145

Crack repairs flywheel housing side cover around $100

Wash parts $150

Paint engine $150

Total for Labor $1355

Without knowing what shipping is I arrive at total estimate for parts and labor of:

$7569.03
that is before tax and shipping cost .
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Old 03-07-2021, 05:15 PM   #235
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

A new drain plug? See if the old one will work!
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Old 03-07-2021, 05:18 PM   #236
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

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A new drain plug? See if the old one will work!
Many of the items on that list could be sourced from the old engine and I see no problem doing that. After all, they would be reused if the old motor were rebuilt.
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Old 03-07-2021, 06:24 PM   #237
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

$150.00 for parts washing?
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Old 03-07-2021, 10:53 PM   #238
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Michael,

You are comparing apples and oranges.

If you take your total of $7569.03 and deduct the cost of Terry's new engine components and flywheel which comes to $4335.88 , you come up with $3233.15.
Now add up what it will cost to have your professional engine man take your old engine and disassemble it, strip the block, clean and de-rust the block, repair any cracks and fix broken studs or stripped holes. Bore mains for inserted bearings or pore Babbitt and line bore. Install valve seats, bore cylinders and may be even sleeve the block. Clean and mag rods, pore Babbitt and bore big ends. Install new pin bushings and fit pins, or purchase new rods. Clean, magniflux, the crank and install counter weights and grind. Clean and cut down the flywheel, and drill for modern clutch, install new flywheel ring gear. Get the whole thing balanced and ready for assembly. Purchase insert bearings if block was bored for inserts.

Figure out what this will cost assuming your block is rebuildable and the crank and flywheel are good. Your engine man will charge you additional if your block is no good and he has to strip and clean a second block. He is not going to do additional work and not get paid for it.

Now I am sure it will be less than using one of Terry's Kits BUT you will have a 90 year old rebuilt 3 main bearing, non pressurized, Model A engine with small crank and rod journals that is limited to how much compression you can run that will not last nearly as long as a "new" engine using one of Terry's kits.

If you are looking for the cheapest way to go, do not even consider using one of Terry's engine kits.

My opinion,

Chris W.
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Old 03-07-2021, 10:56 PM   #239
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

I would get exited if this much effort were put forth in eliminating engine vibrations.
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Old 03-08-2021, 12:16 AM   #240
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

There is another reality coming down the Model A road; even though 4.8 million Model A's were produced, the number of good blocks is shrinking quickly. The shop I deal with says they throw away 6 or so bad blocks for every rebuildable block they use. If the new Terry Burtz block cannot turn the corner on cost effectiveness, there will still be fewer and fewer original blocks available. I don't know of anyone trying to reproduce the original blocks but I don't know much. Maybe someone will and the standards committees will allow them in show cars?
In the mean time, I applaud Mr. Burtz (and his team) for continuing the effort to bring his new block to the market and while it is more expensive, I sure would like to build one with a blower to see how far the new engine can be taken. Imagine a 200 HP Model A engine! Of course, I don't have the money to do this but it is fun to dream.
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