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Old 10-02-2020, 01:18 AM   #1
Mercmarc
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Default Air Conditioning Condenser for an 8BA

Hello All,

What is the best A/C condenser for a 1950 8BA?

I have a 1935 Fordor Slantback with a 1950 8BA dual carb, Isky 88 cam and dual exhaust. That said my wife says its time for A/C in the car. Several years ago I read a thread regarding a particular A/C condenser being better than others for a V8 flatty. I can not seem to find the older thread.

I am planning on using a Vintage Air A/C with heater, second generation system.

Does anyone recall the old thread or have a recommendation / experience with an A/C condenser in a 35 Fordor?

My concern is a typical A/C condenser may restrict too much air flow. I am using a five core offset tube radiator with good air flow using a 15 inch 3000 CFM FAL electric fan with a shroud. 160 degree stats but it runs about 175 degrees. I have dual mechanical temp gauges by Auto Meter and have checked them in a pot of boiling water to be with in a few degrees of each other and reading approximately 212 F.

I don't want to be in hot water with this engine nor hot water with the wife for no AC.

As always, any information is greatly appreciated. Ford Barn is the best thing fishing, a good whisky and a stogi. :-)

Respectfully

Marc
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Old 10-02-2020, 02:15 AM   #2
aussie merc
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Default Re: Air Conditioning Condenser for an 8BA

use a quality ac condenser the more condenser you have the better the A/C will work especially with R134 [its a cow to condense ] don't know how you would go with it but my preference these days is minus 30 [ its a hydro carbon gas but behaves very similar to R12] basicly use as much condensor as you can space it 12mm away from the rad and add a condensor fan [as big as will fit] dont worry about overkill in this case bigger is better bit hard to advise without seeing car cooling package etc but just keep in mind the better it cools /condenses the gas the better it will work and the less impact it will have on the rest of the system
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Old 10-02-2020, 12:43 PM   #3
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Default Re: Air Conditioning Condenser for an 8BA

Hello aussie merc,

Many thanks for the details and recommendations which will be put to good use.

Respectfully

Marc
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Old 10-02-2020, 03:05 PM   #4
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Default Re: Air Conditioning Condenser for an 8BA

Your concern seems to be with airflow that doesn't excessively restrict air through the radiator. I can't definitively answer your concern, but I used a Vintage Air manifolded condenser (instead of tube and fin) on a '40 Ford with a 302 engine and a Spal fan with less CFM than you are using with no problems at all. Vintage Air has lots of experience with AC units. It can't hurt to give them a call and see if you get an answer you are comfortable with.
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Old 10-03-2020, 12:45 AM   #5
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Default Re: Air Conditioning Condenser for an 8BA

Hello 40cpe,

Great suggestion that I will follow up on. Glad to hear your 40 with the 302 is working well with this Vintage Air A/C system. Many thanks.

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Marc
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Old 10-03-2020, 09:35 AM   #6
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Default Re: Air Conditioning Condenser for an 8BA

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercmarc View Post
Hello All,

What is the best A/C condenser for a 1950 8BA?

I have a 1935 Fordor Slantback with a 1950 8BA dual carb, Isky 88 cam and dual exhaust. That said my wife says its time for A/C in the car. Several years ago I read a thread regarding a particular A/C condenser being better than others for a V8 flatty. I can not seem to find the older thread.

I am planning on using a Vintage Air A/C with heater, second generation system.

Does anyone recall the old thread or have a recommendation / experience with an A/C condenser in a 35 Fordor?

My concern is a typical A/C condenser may restrict too much air flow. I am using a five core offset tube radiator with good air flow using a 15 inch 3000 CFM FAL electric fan with a shroud. 160 degree stats but it runs about 175 degrees. I have dual mechanical temp gauges by Auto Meter and have checked them in a pot of boiling water to be with in a few degrees of each other and reading approximately 212

Respectfully

Marc

Does your '35 stay cool idling in traffic on a hot day (like 110+)? Any vapor lock problems? Every day is like a 110 deg. day when you have A/C because the heat given off by the condenser is what the radiator sees. Since you're trying to cool the radiator with already hot air, you need to move a lot of air. Pay attention to fan size, shrouds and air flow through the engine compartment. You may push a lot of air into the engine compartment, but can it escape easily?
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Old 10-03-2020, 09:59 AM   #7
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Default Re: Air Conditioning Condenser for an 8BA

The type of engine doesn't really play into the needed parts for an AC system. It's more about the type of radiator that it will be placed in front of and how well it will fit. You would need to ask folks with a 1935 car that have had this experience. You will also need a good alternator with a 12-volt system just to run it. The compressor clutch takes a good bit of power on a continuous basis to operate plus the blower fan for the evaporator unit.

A person would be surprised on what can be used as a condenser for a 134 type system. One of the helicopters I work on uses what looks like an aircraft oil cooler for a condenser. It gets air flow from the engine cooling fan scroll to make it work and it works well enough to keep the small 4-seat cabin cool.
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Old 10-03-2020, 10:55 AM   #8
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Default Re: Air Conditioning Condenser for an 8BA

You can use a remote condenser that doesn't locate in front of the radiator. I do not have experience with this arrangement, so can not comment on how effective they are, but I do know they exist.
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File Type: jpg A-C condensor.JPG (58.3 KB, 25 views)
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Old 10-03-2020, 11:00 AM   #9
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Default Re: Air Conditioning Condenser for an 8BA

Here is my experience with adding AC. I have a mustang 302/AOD in a 49 Ford. Car came with an electric pusher fan. Worked OK until I added an AC. Tried various combinations of electric fans pusher/puller 2 additional small fans and gave up. Talked to Walker radiator and they said the Vintage Air condenser I had was too restrictive so I bought a Walker condenser. I have included a pic of Vintage Air condenser and Walker condenser.

Moved radiator forward 3 inches to make room for a mechanical fan. Added a custom fan shroud and a 18 inch flexalite belt driven fan. Now without the thermostat can't get the temperature up past 150F! Haven't hooked up the AC yet. Will soon.

Why don't you use the stock fan? My stock fan moved way more air than electric one.

Third picture is VA cross flow condenser. Forth picture is Walker condenser of more conventional design.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg rad 1.jpg (63.2 KB, 39 views)
File Type: jpg rad 2.jpg (58.9 KB, 37 views)
File Type: jpg rad 3.jpg (53.6 KB, 36 views)
File Type: jpg rad 4.jpg (110.0 KB, 36 views)
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Old 10-03-2020, 01:38 PM   #10
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Default Re: Air Conditioning Condenser for an 8BA

mr. T, I'm thinking your 302 cools better than an 8 BA flathead in the first place, regardless of what anyone can do to install AC. If it were mine, I'd be thinking about the remote condenser/fan combo and mount it under the car someplace that would allow the 4 inch thickness shown in JSeery's pic above. Just mho.
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Old 10-04-2020, 02:11 AM   #11
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Default Re: Air Conditioning Condenser for an 8BA

Hello All,

Firstly, many thanks for everyones input, suggestions, pictures, and shared experiences.

No room in this 35 to move the radiator forward as the front fenders attach to the radiator frame as does the front grill. I also have only 3.5 inches between the radiator and closest engine part. I may have room to get creative behind the grill by angling the condenser (did I mention creative?) :-). Just thinking out loud at the moment. I will investigate the Walker condenser through their website and look into a manifold style vs. a tube and fin. As well as contacting Vintage Air for their input as it applies to the 35's concerns.

H&H is building an 8BA 239 for me and feels comfortable his engine can handle the A/C load and based on my cooling system description, Mike is not too concerned about overheating.

The inner fenders are shark finned helping airflow through the engine compartment and I have opted to not install the belly pans on either side of the engine.

I have looked closely inside, outside, underneath and any area I would consider mounting a remote condenser and came up short based on the 14X20X4inch dimensions.

I currently have a 65 amp alternator, but based on the comments I will be upgrading to the 100 amp. I see a nice 100 amp chrome one that might be a nice touch. Jury is still out on the chrome though. She is a frame off redo plain Jane daily driver with an upgraded 3 speed, but you should have seen my wife double clutch the original 3 speed, it was poetry in motion. Pictures of the car to follow after the engine is back in along with the fenders and grill.

I will keep updating the post as decisions are made and outcomes learned.

Respectfully

Marc
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Old 10-04-2020, 09:24 AM   #12
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Default Re: Air Conditioning Condenser for an 8BA

Putting a later model flathead in a 35 reduces room for a mechanical fan?
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Old 10-04-2020, 12:47 PM   #13
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Default Re: Air Conditioning Condenser for an 8BA

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Putting a later model flathead in a 35 reduces room for a mechanical fan?
Fans through '38 (and '39 STANDARD) all mount on the generator just like the '35 fan....piece of cake! '39 Deluxe and '40-'41 fans mount way down low on the snout of the crankshaft. The '42-'48 fans stick WAYYY out toward the front, and the '49-'53 fan set-ups just don't work well either. The most important thing to remember is that the '35-'38 radiators all lean rearward at the top, decreasing clearances SEVERELY. This is why we built the fan contraption seen in the picture below for Heard's '36 coupe with an 8BA....clearance problems.
This rig we built cools perfectly well in Florida heat. DD

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Old 10-04-2020, 11:34 PM   #14
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Default Re: Air Conditioning Condenser for an 8BA

Hello V8COOPMAN,

Your information on the 35 radiator clearance issue is spot on and priceless for a working solution. Very ingenious utilization of parts and fabrication. May I have your permission to try and replicate the design and functionality? Are you using a wide belt? The perspective from the picture looks narrow. The design looks like it affords the installer to move the fan side to side to the best sweet spot while trying to clear engine parts and hug the radiator. Are you using a shroud on Heard's 36? I apologize for the probing questions, as I like to consider myself more of a number 1 out of two types.

Again Many Thanks

Sincerely

Marc
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Old 10-05-2020, 12:47 PM   #15
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Default Re: Air Conditioning Condenser for an 8BA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercmarc View Post
Hello V8COOPMAN,

Your information on the 35 radiator clearance issue is spot on and priceless for a working solution. Very ingenious utilization of parts and fabrication. May I have your permission to try and replicate the design and functionality? Are you using a wide belt? The perspective from the picture looks narrow. The design looks like it affords the installer to move the fan side to side to the best sweet spot while trying to clear engine parts and hug the radiator. Are you using a shroud on Heard's 36? I apologize for the probing questions, as I like to consider myself more of a number 1 out of two types.

Again Many Thanks

Sincerely

Marc
Hey Marc.....From what I see so far, YOU already qualify as a "number 1 of 2"! Off the bat, you are most-certainly welcome to copy any, or all of what we did concerning this fan "thingie"! And yes, that is a WIDE belt....it fits the early ('49-'50) pulleys just fine. In fact, Heard had to machine the REAR groove in the double sheave alternator pulley to fit the engine-driven wide DRIVE belt. The secondary FAN-driving belt is a narrow belt, driven via the alternator pulley. NO shroud used, and it cools just fine in Florida.

Our impetus to build this contraption owes to the fact that in all of my years, I have never seen anybody come-up with a workable MECHANICAL fan for an 8BA-type flathead in a '35 or '36 Ford, plus....an electric fan just seemed like a lame excuse better-suited to some girly-man street rod rig, rather than a 'real' hot rod. This car had a weenie electric fan strapped to the rear side of the radiator when he bought the car, but it 'sucked' (just not near enough), and it looked like 'stink'. Click on the link below for a more-descriptive synopsis of this fan project that I posted some time back, with quite a few pictures. Let me know what you think, and if you still have the desire to continue-on, we can get together via e-mail and I'd be happy to share quite a few more pictures, parts availability, along with detailed instructions as well as hints and guidance to help ya get through the project. Click the link below! Dick D

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...08#post1869208

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Old 10-08-2020, 11:13 PM   #16
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Default Re: Air Conditioning Condenser for an 8BA

Hello V8COOPMAN

I apologize for the delayed reply as my wife and I took a little road rip to the coast for a few days. Smokey here and she said she would like a breath of fresh air. :-)

Your generosity is greatly appreciated. I would most definitely like to pursue the mechanical fan solution. Any and all guidance minimizing the remanufacturing of a wheel is priceless, please excuse the redundant use of priceless, but it is.


I am familiar with the ole chevy Corvairs. Those pancake sixes with dual carbs where always fun to get running correctly. Good linkage seemed to be the biggest help back then.

Is private messaging accomplished by sharing our contact info? If so please see below.

mgillmorecfm@yahoo.com.

Dick, I cannot say thanks enough for your willingness to share your knowledge with this project and myself. Again Thank You.

Respectfully

Marc
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Old 10-09-2020, 12:29 AM   #17
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Default Re: Air Conditioning Condenser for an 8BA

PM refers to clicking on a members icon. There is a dropdown menu and a selection for Private Message, second option down. I will send you a PM. You should see a red message indicator toward the upper left.
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Old 10-09-2020, 05:39 AM   #18
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Default Re: Air Conditioning Condenser for an 8BA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercmarc View Post
Hello V8COOPMAN

I apologize for the delayed reply as my wife and I took a little road rip to the coast for a few days. Smokey here and she said she would like a breath of fresh air. :-)

Your generosity is greatly appreciated. I would most definitely like to pursue the mechanical fan solution. Any and all guidance minimizing the remanufacturing of a wheel is priceless, please excuse the redundant use of priceless, but it is.


I am familiar with the ole chevy Corvairs. Those pancake sixes with dual carbs where always fun to get running correctly. Good linkage seemed to be the biggest help back then.

Is private messaging accomplished by sharing our contact info? If so please see below.

mgillmorecfm@yahoo.com.

Dick, I cannot say thanks enough for your willingness to share your knowledge with this project and myself. Again Thank You.

Respectfully

Marc
Yo, Marc.....Good to hear back from ya. And I see that JSeery has helped you to figure-out the FordBarn PM system. J manages to help a lot of folks around here with a lot of things. I received your PM and will PM back to you with my e-mail so that we can begin telling each other a bunch of lies about how to make another one of these goofy-looking fans for your car. I've helped more than one person through a project like this or similar, and the projects usually end-up being a lot of fun. The only caveat I have is that I'm a little particular about appearances and safety, which essentially means I don't want to be involved with anything that ends-up appearing "Mouse-like" in any way. We'll have fun at this! Sent you a PM! Dick D
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