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Old 05-10-2022, 02:51 PM   #1
Ricosan
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Default Engine running rough

Hey Guys,
I have a 1933 woodie with Mallory electronic ignition. I just bought the car about 2 months ago after a full restoration. According to the story, the car was finished around 2008 and then went into storage until recently when it was placed on the market. It has 31 miles on the odometer.

The car has lots of problems. I am attempting to tackle them one by one.

Problem: engine starts fine and idles roughly as it has a healthy cam. I don’t know the specs. The engine was built by H&H engine builders. It has 2 carbs.
After driving for a mile or so, it begins to misfire and has very little power. The coil heats up too hot to touch. Spark plugs are sooty.

Any idea what the cause could be?

Richard
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Old 05-10-2022, 02:56 PM   #2
flatjack9
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Default Re: Engine running rough

Wrong coil. You need one with about 3.5 ohms primary resistance. I use the Bosch "blue" coil 00021.
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Old 05-10-2022, 09:55 PM   #3
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Default Re: Engine running rough

That is one beautiful engine ya got there! You really should start another thread about this woodie wagon with some good photos. Folks her enjoy them. I am also a big fan of the bosch blue coil. My flathead fords just love those things. You are in the right place to get your engine problems sorted out. Now, about those woodie pics......
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Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1947 Tonner Pickup (red) mostly stock with exception of a cummins 6at turbo diesel, 1946 Tonner Pickup (green) with 226 cu in 6 cyl flathead, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, completely encased in 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. Ok, cornbinder rear fenders..... 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson)
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Old 05-10-2022, 10:11 PM   #4
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Default Re: Engine running rough

x2 on what they said...be sure the under dash resister is eliminated as well. The Bosch Blue has an internal resistor.
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Old 05-10-2022, 11:52 PM   #5
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Default Re: Engine running rough

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Originally Posted by GB SISSON View Post
That is one beautiful engine ya got there
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Old 05-11-2022, 09:23 AM   #6
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Thanks for the kind words. I’m still working on trying to get things sorted out. Apparently the car was never driven to make sure everything worked as it should. It had been driven less than 11 miles when I took possession in January.

I have a ballast resistor between the ignition switch and the coil. I visited several car parts stores but none had the Bosch blue. I installed a new coil ( not sure of OHMS but the same result. It feels like it is shorting out for just a half second then pops back to life. It doesn’t want to take gas. This occurs after a couple of miles of driving.

Richard
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Old 05-11-2022, 10:44 AM   #7
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Default Re: Engine running rough

Maybe there is a serious current leak through the condenser, causing the coil to overheat. Try replacing the condenser. Cheap and easy, but there are serious quality problems with condensers on the market now. Tubman on this board makes one that is extremely reliable, but can be a problem to mount, because it is larger than stock.
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Old 05-11-2022, 01:46 PM   #8
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Default Re: Engine running rough

After sitting in storage since 2008, the condenser is certainly suspect! I can see a condenser attached to the side of the distributor. It’s an electronic distributor. I’m going to take the distributor out tomorrow morning. I don’t know if it has points or not. I will replace the condenser and check condition of points.
Richard
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Old 05-11-2022, 08:26 PM   #9
GB SISSON
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Default Re: Engine running rough

And it IS 12 volts right? As your wagon isn't bone stock, how bout' a Tubman condensor mounted on the side of the distributor? As I recall, they are a handsome looking brass cased unit. But if you're like me we get itchy to get to the bottom of the problem. Maybe someone can recomend an Echlin condensor from Napa. And of course is it electronic or points?
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Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1947 Tonner Pickup (red) mostly stock with exception of a cummins 6at turbo diesel, 1946 Tonner Pickup (green) with 226 cu in 6 cyl flathead, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, completely encased in 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. Ok, cornbinder rear fenders..... 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson)
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Old 05-12-2022, 06:36 AM   #10
Ricosan
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Default Re: Engine running rough

Hey GB, I’m hoping that the condenser that’s currently attached to the side of the Mallory electronic ignition located at the front of the crankshaft has some kind of ID numbers on it.
I’ll send some pics when I get it out.
Richard
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Old 05-12-2022, 08:19 AM   #11
GB SISSON
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Default Re: Engine running rough

Ok, but in re-reading your posts it's quite clear that you have a mallory electroning distributor which is obviously 12 volts. Now somebody way smarter than me has to advise you. I have taught myself the basics of the points/condenser type ignition system, but know little to nothing about the modern style of ignition. In fact I have always thought that electronic ignition didn't use points or condensors.
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Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1947 Tonner Pickup (red) mostly stock with exception of a cummins 6at turbo diesel, 1946 Tonner Pickup (green) with 226 cu in 6 cyl flathead, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, completely encased in 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. Ok, cornbinder rear fenders..... 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson)
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Old 05-12-2022, 02:26 PM   #12
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Default Re: Engine running rough

There are no points in an electronic dist.Mallory electronic dist do not use condensers.At least mine didn't.To me the coil is the problem.The Blue Bosch coil recommended should take care of the problem.
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Old 05-12-2022, 05:11 PM   #13
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Default Re: Engine running rough

See my posts on "Ricosan"'s other posts. I think he has a regular points distributor. Mallory (or Holley these days) seemed to have used the same part # on two completely different distributors.
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Old 05-13-2022, 01:36 AM   #14
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Default Re: Engine running rough

I guess he needs to pop off the dizzy cap to confirm so we don't keep on guessing.I'm thinking he has the small red anti current spike box that he thinks is the condenser.
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Old 05-13-2022, 06:51 AM   #15
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Default Re: Engine running rough

Hey Guys,

I noticed that there are two wires attached to the negative post on the coil. I am going to take one of those wires off and see if this helps the situation.
I was able to remove the distributor yesterday and here are some photos.

Richard
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File Type: jpg 144CD5F9-4B11-4C56-9AA3-6443A8046C75.jpg (77.2 KB, 43 views)

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Old 05-13-2022, 08:59 AM   #16
GB SISSON
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Default Re: Engine running rough

Did that second wire go to an electric fuel pump?
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Old 05-14-2022, 06:32 AM   #17
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Default Re: Engine running rough

Hey Guys,

Well, I’m learning a lot here. Yes, it’s not an “electronic “ distributor. It’s just a very small and light weight with a crab style cap. Plan to re-install the non electronic dual points distributor tomorrow and start checking the wires on the negative side of the coil.

I really like this distributor, after having to deal with with the helmet distributor in my previous car.
GB, I think one of those wires on the negative side of the coil may go to the tachometer.

Richard
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Old 05-14-2022, 06:43 AM   #18
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Default Re: Engine running rough

Yes, that makes sense that the extra wire would go to the tach. Sounds like you are on the correct path, with the coil. I was thinking that with the car sitting so long, maybe the carbs could be gummed up inside.
Good luck. Beautiful looking ride.
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Old 05-15-2022, 08:02 PM   #19
Ricosan
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Default Re: Engine running rough

Hey Guys,

Reinstalled the distributor this morning and installed new plugs. Engine won’t start. It tries but just can’t quite get going.
No problem starting before I removed the distributor and reinstalled. I was careful not to rotate the assembly while I had it out. I’m not sure it’s back exactly in the same position as it was before I removed it.
Are these distributors adjustable by rotating?

Rich
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Old 05-15-2022, 08:34 PM   #20
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Default Re: Engine running rough

No. They should only go in one way.
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Old 05-16-2022, 12:22 AM   #21
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Default Re: Engine running rough

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricosan View Post
Are these distributors adjustable by rotating?
Rich
Yes.

The stock distributor can only go back on the car in one position as flatjack9 said. The stock distributor's timing is set before reinstalling on the car.

But this aftermarket Mallory distributor is different, has key-slots on the distributor's mounting base. This allows for a huge range of timing adjustment after installed on the car. So yes, should have marked a key slot before removing. And these engines do not have a timing mark on the crank pully for adjusting timing with a timing light.

So I would suggest you now go trial and error. Loosen the three mounting bolts and rotate the distributor bit-by-bit until you can get it to fire. Rotate a bit, tighten one bolt, and get your hands out of there before cranking. Caution: don't attempt to rotate while engine is cranking! Repeat until hopefully the timing gets close enough to fire: loosen, rotate a bit, tighten, hands out of there, crank.
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Old 05-16-2022, 05:47 AM   #22
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Thanks Jay. You explained it perfectly. I’m on it!

Richard
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Old 05-16-2022, 09:23 AM   #23
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Before going thru all that, might want to verify that the distributor is producing any spark at all. Pull a spark plug lead off a plug and hold near a ground (cylinder head) to verify there is spark.
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Old 05-18-2022, 09:33 AM   #24
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Default Re: Engine running rough

Reinstalled the distributor with original condenser. Tubman condenser on the way.

Couldn’t make out the mark i made with a felt tip marker so I just winged it. First attempt with the help of a can of starter spray it started but backfired. I moved the distributor a little further counter clockwise but it was worse. Moved about 1/2 in back clockwise and no back firing but running rich. It runs rough as if it has an extremely aggressive cam.
I don’t know much about this engine except it’s easy on the eye and it was built by H&H.
Now to figure out what’s going on with the carburetors running so rich.

Thanks to everyone of you for your help and comments. I’m learning so much from you!

Richard
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Old 05-18-2022, 12:51 PM   #25
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Default Re: Engine running rough

Hey Guys,

Tweaked the distributor just a little counter clockwise. Maybe 1/16 of an inch and the engine settled down. Idle not so edgy but still smelling of gas. Good throttle response in the garage. A road test is next but it’s too hot to test drive today(over 91 already. Will try in the morning.

Richard
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Old 06-13-2022, 10:45 AM   #26
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Hey guys,
Update:

Installed Two of Charlie’s rebuilt vintage carburetors and my engine runs smooth as silk. Took it for an extended ride around the neighborhood and finally ventured out onto a four lane. I think we got up to about 50mph. No burps or misses! Yahoo!

Thanks to all of you who helped me with this problem. I am learning so much. I guess this is another example of an electrical problem being fuel related!

Now on to the next problem..

Richard
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Old 06-13-2022, 11:06 AM   #27
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Hey Guys,
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Old 06-13-2022, 11:06 AM   #28
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Default Re: Engine running rough

Hey guys,
Update:

Installed Two of Charlie’s rebuilt vintage carburetors and my engine runs smooth as silk. Took it for an extended ride around the neighborhood and finally ventured out onto a four lane. I think we got up to about 50mph. No burps or misses! Yahoo!

Thanks to all of you who helped me with this problem. I am learning so much. I guess this is another example of an electrical problem being fuel related!

Now on to the next problem..

Richard
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Old 06-14-2022, 12:19 AM   #29
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Neat project!
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