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Old 05-07-2022, 01:21 PM   #1
samsonized
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Default flathead in a model a frame

can you install a flathead in a model a frame either a v860 or a 59ab and is there a kit to do it
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Old 05-07-2022, 03:42 PM   #2
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Default Re: flathead in a model a frame

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can you install a flathead in a model a frame either a v860 or a 59ab and is there a kit to do it
1- Yes.
2-Yes.
3- No, but there are plenty of individual parts available to do the job.
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Old 05-07-2022, 04:36 PM   #3
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Default Re: flathead in a model a frame

Mike Bishop and Vern Tardel's book on building a traditional Ford hot rod covers the old ways of solving the problems of the full size flathead V8. I wouldn't think too much about a V8 60 since they just don't really have the power to do much. I'd use a built banger before using a little V8 myself.
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Old 05-07-2022, 08:48 PM   #4
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Default Re: flathead in a model a frame

Rotor Wrench has a good point. With a little work and some speed parts the Model A engine can put out 90 horsepower. A little more work and more speed parts and it can put out more. See https://www.modelaparts.net/dynoshee...ynosheets.html. With the availability of the Burtz engine there is really no reason to go to a V8 unless you are looking for the cool factor.
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Old 05-07-2022, 09:36 PM   #5
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Default Re: flathead in a model a frame

I watched this video a while ago. Installing a Flathead V8 in a Model A pickup with a bolt-in kit.

https://youtu.be/QBUrzt9PUQg
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Old 05-08-2022, 03:58 AM   #6
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Default Re: flathead in a model a frame

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Flathead engines will fit in many things.
Tonight I saw an 8ba in an 8N tractor. It had Offy heads and manifold and they said it made just over 100 hp.
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Old 05-08-2022, 08:36 AM   #7
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Default Re: flathead in a model a frame

The Funk brothers designed a lot of things back in the day. The Funk airplane is kind of a rarity now days. The Ford tractor conversions did a lot better with both H series 6-cylinder and flathead V8 conversions being produced. Folks are coming up with similar tractor conversions in the modern era.

After watching the You-Tube on the easy bolt in, I came to two conclusions about that.
1. It's not an easy install as was advertized. The fit needed a lot of tweeking for a "bolt in" and the tweek on the front cross member took away some of the strength there.
2. It does almost nothing to reinforce an already weak frame design. The use of the 1932 K-member at least added some reinforcement to the frame as long as the legs are used on both sides. Just bolting the rear engine mount to the center cross member makes for a problematic structure. The model A engine and flywheel cover added some strength to the frame by tying into it. All that is lost when deleting that type of structural reinforcement. Even an F1 cross member or a fabricated one would be better than deleting it altogether.
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Old 05-08-2022, 12:29 PM   #8
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Default Re: flathead in a model a frame

The V8 60 is a lot less cubic inches (136) than the original Model A engine (200) and I don't think you will be happy with the result. Drive one first.

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Old 05-08-2022, 03:20 PM   #9
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Default Re: flathead in a model a frame

59ab
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Old 05-08-2022, 03:49 PM   #10
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Default Re: flathead in a model a frame

The "A-V8" is a very popular build for hot rods and speedsters alike, it certainly can be done. I have the 1952 edition of the Ford Speed Manual which is a good read for ideas.
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Old 05-08-2022, 03:56 PM   #11
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Default Re: flathead in a model a frame

Who needs a V8?
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Old 05-09-2022, 01:43 AM   #12
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Default Re: flathead in a model a frame

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I watched this video a while ago. Installing a Flathead V8 in a Model A pickup with a bolt-in kit.

https://youtu.be/QBUrzt9PUQg
If that is street legal, you guys get away with anything. That would never pass engineering inspection (required before registration) with cross members cut and so much power to say nothing of brakes, seat belts, collapsible steering column etc etc. but we live in different legal jurisdictions.
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Old 05-10-2022, 07:55 AM   #13
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Default Re: flathead in a model a frame

If that is street legal, you guys get away with anything. That would never pass engineering inspection (required before registration) with cross members cut and so much power to say nothing of brakes, seat belts, collapsible steering column etc etc. but we live in different legal jurisdictions.

sounds like your hands are tied Synchro

many states here you can do pretty much as you please. Heck, if a modern car here in NJ has a broken frame, but it passes pollution control- you are handed a clean bill of health!

crazy but true.
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Old 05-10-2022, 08:01 AM   #14
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Default Re: flathead in a model a frame

https://www.verntardel.com/store/p28...Winner%21.html

Get this book. Best guide out there to walk you through what you want to do.
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Old 05-10-2022, 09:14 AM   #15
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Default Re: flathead in a model a frame

I try to stay out of anything political but I'm sure most folks would agree that free countries aren't always as free as we would like them to be. That's all I have to say about that.

On the bright side, it helps to keep things pretty stock when some changes aren't allowed. This is OK for the purist restorer. The hot rodder, not so much.
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Old 05-11-2022, 08:31 AM   #16
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Default Re: flathead in a model a frame

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Originally Posted by Synchro909 View Post
If that is street legal, you guys get away with anything. That would never pass engineering inspection (required before registration) with cross members cut and so much power to say nothing of brakes, seat belts, collapsible steering column etc etc. but we live in different legal jurisdictions.
This is the land of the free and the home of the brave! You are free to do it and brave to ride in it! One more thing, you better be rich to weather the lawsuits that may come out of inadequate engineering. I recall a show on tv called "American Hotrod" where the owner (Can't recall his name , but he was a famous Hollywood builder) Got into a tussle with one of his employees over boxing a 32 Ford chassis that was the guy's own car. I think he fired the employee. Now I have the name, It was Coddington!
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Old 05-11-2022, 09:12 AM   #17
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Default Re: flathead in a model a frame

So much power? A flat head V8?

A modified flathead A or B engine develops almost the same hp and torque.. with a much quicker torque rise.. the time and money you spend on a V8 sure is a let down the first time you drive it.. not to mention it’s crack prone and you fight overheating issue..but hey, it sounds sexy..

Looks like not everything is better in OZ..
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Old 05-11-2022, 10:04 AM   #18
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Default Re: flathead in a model a frame

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So much power? A flat head V8?

A modified flathead A or B engine develops almost the same hp and torque.. with a much quicker torque rise.. the time and money you spend on a V8 sure is a let down the first time you drive it.. not to mention itís crack prone and you fight overheating issue..but hey, it sounds sexy..

Looks like not everything is better in OZ..
A highly modified flathead V8 can easily double the power of the same highly modified A or B banger. 80-100 hp vs. 180-200 hp.

Now, if we are talking OHV conversion to said banger, know you've got my attention.

Different strokes for different folks....
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Old 05-11-2022, 10:42 AM   #19
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Default Re: flathead in a model a frame

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A highly modified flathead V8 can easily double the power of the same highly modified A or B banger. 80-100 hp vs. 180-200 hp.

Now, if we are talking OHV conversion to said banger, know you've got my attention.

Different strokes for different folks....
No doubt Tim modified to modified..hopping up a banger is Walmart, a V8 is Nordstrom. Wallet accordingly..
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Old 05-11-2022, 10:48 AM   #20
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Default Re: flathead in a model a frame

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No doubt Tim modified to modified..hopping up a banger is Walmart, a V8 is Nordstrom. Wallet accordingly..
Haha. Great analogy. To be clear, there nothing wrong with a hopped banger. Heck, my buddy's full race banger sounds outright angry and goes like stink.

That said, no modified flathead is cheap to build. Do it right once.

To your point though, more power, more problems or things that need to be changed to handle the power.
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