35 Phaeton Top Iron Part Help

[jfcrash]

Ref- ‘35 Phaeton …top installation and part identification

The picture below shows a bracket, which was screwed on the old rusty original top irons found on the car…located on the side on the top irons where the center steel bow is attached...(my new bows don't even have such a hole to accept the bracket)

LeBaron says there should be two, one on each side, has a rubber tip and are used to ’hold the side headers in place’ and of course doesn’t carry them.

Does anyone have a picture of one of these attached to their top irons, and perhaps a picture of it holding up the side header? know of a source for them?, and is mine bent? …should it be straight and not bend 90 at the end???

Thank You, Jim

[DavidG]

Jim,

You're right, it's bent on the end with the three holes in it. I'll dig out a photo of one in place for you later today. The rubber end can be readily created by repeatedly dipping the end with the holes in the liquid rubber available in most hardware stores to coat the handles of pliers, etc.

To my knowledge, these parts have never been reproduced.

[DavidG]

Jim,

Here's a photo of an original tab obviously in place since day one. Note that it is slightly bent, but at least some of the original rubber tip is in place.

[jfcrash]

DavidG,

Thank you for the picture….I can see what you mean about straightening out the bracket/clip. It should be easy enough to make a similar one to replace the one’s that’s missing as well as the rubber tip as you suggest.

My replacement irons from Gritz/Superior Mfg do not have provisions to accommodate these brackets ….. I will have to drill and tap a screw hole.

In the picture below, it appears that the shinny half-circle surface area on the LH side of the top iron would be the place this bracket is mounted. Don’t mind the side panel header panel which I since have realized is hanging upside down.

Do you know the purpose of this bracket? And would you know how it interfaces with the side header panel??

Thank you, Jim

[DavidG]

The strip of material that you are holding in your hand in your photo is part of the side curtains, only it should end up higher without a gap as its purpose is to serve as a weatherstrip between the door curtain and the top.

[jfcrash]

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Yes, I eventually realized that material strip (the side curtain header panel) was upside down; it now hangs closer to the top iron.

My question was what does that small clip, which I need to repair, do? . How does it interface with the side curtain header panel? Do I really need it?

I am kind of getting ahead of myself as the 'top' material has not been completely installed....

Thanks again, Jim

[DavidG]

Jim,

Are you referring to the J-shaped clip riveted to the side curtain header panel?

David

[jfcrash]

David,

I am referring to the 'tab with the rubber tip' that you displayed in your first picture above...


I am questioning what does that small 'tab with the rubber tip' suppose to do? How does it interface with the side curtain header panel? Do I really need it?

Jim

[DavidG]

Jim,

Its intended purpose is to prevent wear to the top fabric (not the side curtain header) from rubbing on the top iron assembly at that point.

Dave

[jfcrash]

David,

Thank you, I couldn't visualize what it's purpose was....don't recall seeing one on any Phaeton before.....guess I will have to repair the one I have and make a second one.

Thank you very much.

Jim

[Jim Wilson]

Jim, the attached pictures show how the clips are installed on my '36 phaeton. They hold the top pads in place and at the same time hook into the slot in the side header and hold it in position. Let me know if you need more pictures or dimensions.

Jim Wilson

[jfcrash]

Jim,

The pictures are great. I am really surprised that my new irons don’t have a screw hole to accept these clips. Are your clips original or where they available somewhere?

The LeBaron Bonney top kit is nearly completely installed and then comes the task of marking up a set of paper patters they have supplied so they can assemble a set of side curtains..etc

If I could impose, there would be two pictures, taken from the same side of the car, that would be very helpful at this point, a picture of one of your windshield stantion curtain pads so I can see the hole for the windshield wing nut and the placement of the other fastners on it as well; and second, a picture of the front door- front curtain rod in place on the door....(of course, any other photos you may have dealing with side curtains and rods)

Thank you,
Jim

[Jim Wilson]

Jim, please email me at [email protected] and we can continue this discussion there.

Jim Wilson

[DavidG]

With all due respect, those tabs were not originally used to secure the top pads to the steel bow. They were attached underneath the pads, not through the pads. Missing in the photos are the steel strap that was originally attached to the steel bow with a drive nail on each end of the strap that captured the top pad. The drive nails did not penetrate the pad but rather were just outside the pad on either side. The holes for the drive nails normally penetrated all the way through the steel bow and are evident on the underside of the steel bow on either side beneath the pads.

Having the top pads only secured at the outside of the pad would create undue strain on the pads when the top is lowered and raised. That's why the original method of attaching the pads to the steel bow was used, namely to spread the strain on the pads over their entire width and not just on one side.

I have had/have five '35-'36 phaetons and many of the tabs in question and not one was bent in 180 degree configuration shown in the photo.

David

[jfcrash]

David,

I agree with you, using the steel straps to secure the pads to the center steel bow has caused my pads to rest much higher on the bow than shown in Jim’s picture.

The placement for the clip in Jim’s photo is about the right spot as evidenced by your photo where the casting has a raised lip on each side of the clip to cradle the clip from movement, and is just below the end of the steel bow.

As I mentioned, I don’t have such an area defined on my new top irons, but easy enough to drill and tap a hole just below the end of the steel bow.

So dealing with the clip and it’s tip configuration…my side curtain header is the same as shown in Jim W’s picture with that half circle cut out and slot ….the slot in the fabric must be so the clip can pass/come thru ..? And the more I think of it, the “J” on the end of the clip in Jim W’s photo has got to wear on the top fabric with or without a rubber tip.

Do you recall if your clip came thru the side header panel? and did what?

Jim

[jfcrash]

Dave,

Your absolutely right as to the function of the clip we have been discussing…

To satisfy my continued curiosity of how the clip and the cutout in the side curtain header panel relate, I called Doug, the tech guy at Lebaron, (who has been most helpful during my interior and now top kit installation).

The clip, as you stated, is to prevent wear to the top fabric, it is not hooked at the end…just follows the contour of the top iron and ends with a rubber tip.

The clip does slip thru the cutout in the side curtain header and the side curtain header panel comes to rest between the clip and top irons.

I now get it..

Thanks to all,
Jim

[DavidG]

Jim,

If you would like any photos of the finished installation, please let me know. If so, there will be a delay as I am away from my old car stuff for about a week.

I assume that you spoke to Doug Belinsky at LeB/B. He is quite knowledgeable.

David

[Jim Wilson]

David,

Thank you for your input regarding the corrrect installation of the clips. I also talked to Doug at LeBaron and he confirms your opinion that the clips should be fastened directly to the casting, and should point straight down. I will correct mine accordingly.

Jim Wilson

[danliveshere]

DavidG, it would be much appreciated if you can post photos of the finished top and side curtains.

[DavidG]

Dan,

I'd be happy to, but all I have immediately on hand are taken at some distance like the photo posted above. As mentioned above, I'm at least a week away from being able to take any more photos. In addition to the LeBaron-Bonney-side curtains, I have a set of intact originals that LeB/B used to confirm their patterns. Which set would you prefer to see, the originals or the reproductions?

David

[danliveshere]

David it doesn't matter if the LBB are the same as an original. We can use the lbb top but cannot use the side curtains here in Australia because of the lhd rhd differences in the drivers curtain . The photos will help when I have to get curtains made locally. Dan.

[DavidG]

Okay, but for your information, LeB/B knows how to make RHD side curtains as only the front door curtains are different and at that each is a mirror image of the other.

[Henryat1140]

Hello Boys,

I am also in the process of re-newing my top assy. Using a Girtz/Superior set of irons and a LBB top.

The brackets do seem to be there mostly to protect the lower edge of the top. I was not aware they had any function regarding the side curtains, but then again I haven't really used the side curtains 'for real'. I had them installed and made some adjustments in the rods and fit before we went on the Maine tour in 8/12. But we had no rain (Thank you Lord!) Truthfully, I was never sure we had installed the top header long piece correctly. I will look for the cutout in the header next time I get the side curtains out.

You will see that when the top was done previously the upholstery shop made a little pocket which was cemented to the bracket - only one side was there though.

Meanwhile I am enclosing some pictures of both sides, as well as some detail shots in case someone wants to fabricate one.

My new irons are not drilled for this bracket.

Let me know if there is anything else I can contribute.

Henry

[jfcrash]

2014 follow up …

At the end of this post (Dec 2012), I went to work on completing the balance of my other restoration tasks and got the Phaeton on the road (in test mode) in June/July 2013.

In Sept 2013, I contacted Superior Car Parts Inc in Delphi, IN who makes these Top Irons for our early cars. (I purchased my set from Girtz back in 1999).

After explaining the function of this clip in relation to LeBaron Bonney’s side curtains header panels, plus a bunch of photo’s, and that their top irons did not come with the ‘clip’ or a tapped threaded hole to secure such a clip, they became quite interested.

Bottom line, I sent them my ‘one and only’ clip last fall, they made a die and sent me two this week that look good to me. I have yet to attach them to the irons.

If you need these clips, Contact Leslie at 1-765-564-4200.

Hope this helps someone, Jim

[DavidG]

They look great! Way to persevere!