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Old 03-15-2020, 03:14 PM   #1
wahoo54
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Default 1938 Ford Tudor electrical problems

Ok, I'm still fighting this and not much good at electrical problems. I have a 38 stock ford tudor with the V860 in it. Previous owner said he converted it to 12 volt but the generator looks to be 6 volt. I installed 12 volt light bulbs and put a reducer on the coil. I was driving it home the other night and boom everything stopped. Engine, lights. Nothing would come on. Hauled it home and found that when I tightened the screws up on the fuse block and resistor that the lights came back on. I noticed that the resistor block, piece that it mounts to, was broken in half. Can that cause the lights and everything to shut down?

Anyone know where I can get a replacement? Any help anyone can provide much appreciated.

Last edited by wahoo54; 03-15-2020 at 08:45 PM.
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Old 03-15-2020, 09:00 PM   #2
JSeery
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Default Re: 1938 Ford Tudor electrical problems

The resistor itself is just for the coil. There should be one fuse next to it. The fuse is for the lights, the resistor is for the coil. It should look similar to the photo posted below.

There should be a wire from the hot side of the starter solenoid to the fuse block. This terminal on the fuse block will be electrically "hot" at all times. This terminal also serves as the connection point for several other wires; one to the cut-out on the generator, one to the cigar lighter and one to the ignition switch. All of these connections are hot.

The other side of the fuse connects to the light switch at the base of the steering column and the switch for the pillar lights.

The ignition resistor next to the fuse only receives power when the ignition switch is on. The other end connects directly to the coil. It is for a 6v system using an original style coil.

There would be a number of questions on how the 12 volt conversion was done. You can get 12v out of a 6v generator.

What type of coil is being used, is it a "can" type coil separate from the distributor? How is it wired, is the resistor connected to the (+) terminal and the (-) terminal connected to the distributor?

If it is converted to 12v, you should skip the original ignition resistor and either use a 12v coil with no ballast resistor or a 6v coil with a 1.5 ohm aftermarket ballast resistor.

Is there a voltage drop for the instruments?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Fuse - Resistor Block 40-12250.jpg (66.5 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg Flathead_Electrical_wiring1938.jpg (71.4 KB, 18 views)
File Type: jpg Ballast Resistor 2 (2).jpg (17.5 KB, 13 views)

Last edited by JSeery; 03-15-2020 at 09:25 PM.
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Old 03-15-2020, 09:15 PM   #3
koates
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Default Re: 1938 Ford Tudor electrical problems

Well is it 6 volt or 12 volt, look at the battery, has it got 3 filler caps or 6 filler caps ? You cant tell what voltage the generator is just by looking at it. Its not normal to fit a reducing unit on the ignition coil apart from the original resistor under the dash. What reducing unit ?? Were the bulbs you removed 6 volt ones ? Have another go at explaining exactly what you have here and then I can give you some helpful answers. Regards, Kevin.
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Old 03-16-2020, 06:46 PM   #4
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Default Re: 1938 Ford Tudor electrical problems

JSeery,

Mine is wired just as you describe above. I have the derby type coil on the dist and it's wired off the coil to the resistor under the dash. I haven't noticed a voltage drop on the instruments. Thanks for responding. Look forward to your reply.

Regards,

Jerry

Last edited by wahoo54; 03-16-2020 at 06:52 PM.
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Old 03-16-2020, 06:53 PM   #5
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Default Re: 1938 Ford Tudor electrical problems

Koates,

It's a 12v battery. I was wrong, I never installed the reducing unit for the coil. So it's hooked to the resistor under the dash next to the fuse. It's a new 6 volt coil. Yes the bulbs were 6 volt. I'm just wondering if they just put a 12 volt battery on it. Thanks for replying and look forward to your advice.
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Old 03-16-2020, 08:28 PM   #6
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Default Re: 1938 Ford Tudor electrical problems

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"You cant run a 6 volt coil on 12 volts. You will cook the coil. Is your coil the original Ford type mounted on top of the distributer. If it is I suggest you refit a 6 volt battery and go back to the way it was built in 1938. Maybe the previous owner thought a 12 volt conversion was just to fit a 12 volt battery only. Then you have the generator to sort out if it is still all original 6 volt or has been modified to 12 volt. Does it still have the original round cut out on top of the generator. When some guys are selling you a car they will tend to tell you any sort of bullshit to get a sale. He may have been having electrical problems and decided to sell his problems (to you) Lots to sort out here. Regards, Kevin.
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Old 03-16-2020, 09:23 PM   #7
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Default Re: 1938 Ford Tudor electrical problems

Koates,

I was under the understanding that you could use a 6 volt coil with 12 volts. My bad. I may have to just do that, add a 6 volt in place of the 12V. Do you know where I can get a new resistor and fuse block? I've checked with no luck so far. I think you are right about the fella selling his problem to me . It's a great car just need to get this little problem fixed. Thanks for the feedback. More coming as I proceed.
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Old 03-16-2020, 09:43 PM   #8
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Default Re: 1938 Ford Tudor electrical problems

There are a number of problems if you are running an original style coil with 12v. One is the polarity would be reversed if the 12v battery is connected negative ground, which reduces the coil output. Another issue is the resistance (ballast resistor) connected to the coil. A 6v remotely mounted "can" coil would have around 1.5 ohm of resistance and not require a ballast resistor on 6v or an addition 1.5 ohm (total of 3.0 ohm) ballast resistor if connected to 12v. The original Ford style coil are much lower resistance and again require a ballast resistor on 6v and should not be used with 12v. You can have the coil rewound for 12v use.

As for replacement original style ballast resistors for a stock 6v system, a lot of them are total junk. Maybe someone here on the Barn can provide a source for a decent replacement.
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Old 03-17-2020, 03:22 AM   #9
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Default Re: 1938 Ford Tudor electrical problems

I ask why do you need a new resistor ? If it is not broken or overheated then it is more than likely OK. You can check it with an ohmmeter. Should be around .5 ohms. The original Ford resistor is better quality than any reproduction ones. But you need a new fuse holder for the lights. Michael Driscoll has them on ebay or direct. Third genauto or 1935fordtn on ebay. Michael is a great man to deal with and should be your first to go to for parts. As you may see I am a sticker for original Ford cars and keeping them original with original parts if possible. Some will tell you the 6 volt electrical system is no good but that's far from the truth, they just don't know how to repair or maintain the system. Regards, Kevin.
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Old 03-18-2020, 08:48 PM   #10
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Default Re: 1938 Ford Tudor electrical problems

Thanks JSeery and Kevin. Right now I have a 12 V battery with a 6V stock coil going through a resistor (That has a broken base). I also have a 6V voltage regulator. I really don't for sure know what to do. If I put a 6V in it do I hook it up positive ground? I think I need to re-do this all over again.
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Old 03-18-2020, 11:41 PM   #11
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Default Re: 1938 Ford Tudor electrical problems

Take the ceramic resistor out of the system and get a optima 6v battery (or a 6v from fleet farm). Pos ground. Good start. Coil might be cooked already. If so there are options. Easy start and probably the first of many issues for now. The system other then charging cares little about polarity. Your charging system needs to be 12v compliant and your light bulbs and gauges.


Or get a new ceramic resistor. 56-58 yblock stuff and tractor stuff. They ran 6 volt coils on a 12 volt system after converting to 12v in 54ish (I might be off a yr). If its cracked. If it ran before. If in combination with the normal resistor. 4v. The ceramic should be before the normal resistor. or you will smoke it.


https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/8...waAjmxEALw_wcB


Volt meters are cheap. Multi meters are seemingly complicate and cheap too.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF3OyQ3HwfU



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Old 03-19-2020, 02:42 AM   #12
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Default Re: 1938 Ford Tudor electrical problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by wahoo54 View Post
Thanks JSeery and Kevin. Right now I have a 12 V battery with a 6V stock coil going through a resistor (That has a broken base). I also have a 6V voltage regulator. I really don't for sure know what to do. If I put a 6V in it do I hook it up positive ground? I think I need to re-do this all over again.
You need to put the complete system back to original 6 volt positive ground. I told you where to get the fuseholder and base and original resistor if required. Describe the voltage regulator you have. Is it mounted on the firewall ? Your original coil could be damaged if it has been run on 12 volts for very long. Best to get everything back to standard and see if it will run OK. Others on here will guide you to all sorts of changes and componente but ignore this advice and put it back to original the way it was built. Regards, Kevin.
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Old 03-19-2020, 02:33 PM   #13
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Default Re: 1938 Ford Tudor electrical problems

If you decided to go back to the original 6v, it should be Positive ground (that is the only way the original style coil will work correctly). IMO the best bet would be to have your coil rebuilt. It is my understanding there is a fairly quick turn a round.
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Old 03-24-2020, 08:07 PM   #14
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Default Re: 1938 Ford Tudor electrical problems

Tinker/Koates/JSeery,

I'm going to get a 6 volt and see what transpires. I'll put an update on here as soon as I can go to town and get the battery. Thanks for all the suggestions folks!
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