TDC on a 59 engine

[trainguy]

Any body have a easy way to find tdc on a 59 engine,I want to check timing [mallory point type dist.]

[Aquaroscoe]

I like the tie wrap method. Just get the biggest tie wrap you can find, stuff the tail into the spark hole, manually turn the crank until the piston tops out, rotate it to the other direction until the same thing occurs and take the average of the two. Dont move the tie wrap during the process and you will be fine

[41ford1]

I have a 59 in my pickup. I used a vacuum gauge to set the timing. Here is the short version of the procedure. Adjust the carb to get a the highest steady reading you can get. Shut the engine down. Loosen the distributer hold down bolts only enough so you can turn the distributer. Rotate the distributer clockwise in steps of about 2°. Remove hands and tools. Restart the engine. Check the vacuum gauge.
Repeat as neccessary. At idle you are striving to get the highest reading you can. This is usually 18" to 20" Hg. After you find the highest reading. Back off from that setting by 1". Mine idles at 550 RPM the highest reading I got was 18" so I locked the distributer where I got a reading of 17". I runs better and cooler than it has for 4 years. The truck ran good before but had a tendancy to run on the hot side.

[Ol' Ron]

Now how do you find out what the max advance is?

[Ronnie]

Too easy stop guessing

http://www.btc-bci.com/~billben/tdc.htm

R

[41ford1]

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Ron,
As usual, you're right. Can't check max advance.

[Ol' Ron]

I like the tie rap method. Bruce Lancaster came up with that one years ago.

[Mart]

You'll need to make a pointer so you know what you are referencing against.
I made one from a piece of 1/8" welding wire attached to a timing cover bolt, and pointing to the pulley.
Used a method similar to above, and made a small mark on the pulley in line with the pointer.

Mart.

[Ol' Ron]

I filed a notch at TDC and another notch 1" to the right, this is aprox. 20 deg adv.

[ford38v8]

Naw, too much work. Just use your finger.

[BobM]

Originally Posted by Aquaroscoe

I like the tie wrap method. Just get the biggest tie wrap you can find, stuff the tail into the spark hole, manually turn the crank until the piston tops out, rotate it to the other direction until the same thing occurs and take the average of the two. Dont move the tie wrap during the process and you will be fine

Tie wrap, is that what you use to secure wires?

[Pete]

There are many ways to find top center but that won't do you much good unless you can degree the pulley before and after it.
30 before and 10 after is plenty for most flatheads.
Timing tape is available and can be stuck or glued on the pulley/damper.

[Bruce Lancaster]

Do not use the recommended visual methods unless within 2 or 3 degrees is your idea of accurate! It is quick and easy to use interference method with heads on or off and that gets you to the right place. There is essentially no perceptible movement for 2 or 3 degrees at TDC in a flathead (or in a SBC, see Yunick's book for full discussion of this interesting phenomenon!) and you cannot accurately gauge TDC by dial indicator, liquid, or eyeball. Period. Experts from Francisco and Iskenderian to Yunick have repeatedly made this point, and use either the interference method or the closely equivalent but harder method of dial indicating exactly equal BTDC and ATDC piston positions to start any precision ops involving engine rotation.
Also, remember that timing to vac gauge moves the ENTIRE advance curve, not just initial timing, so think it all through...on a 59A stock curve with vac brake mearly off is pretty good. Here's a summary of method I posted long ago:

This is something I discovered for myself many years ago--and I couldn't believe what my eyes told me until I read the same thing from Smokey Yunick! I guess I'm insecure. At least engines with offsets and long rods like SBC's and Flatheads have what Yunick calls "dwell" at TDC, roughly 3 degrees of rotation in which vertical motion is either non-existent or imperceptible.
My first serious measuring tool was a Wehrmacht surplus dial indicator I found in a junkshop in Stuttgart. When I rebuilt my '48, I decided to add a TDC mark, and hooked the thing up over the piston and hung a big borrowed degree wheel on the front. I happily and easily located TDC within point oh oh nothing of a gnat's eyelash, then decided to repeat the experiment while closely watching the wheel. TDC was nearly 3 degrees wide, and this severely traumatized my brain because I could not account for it until many years later I began to read Yunicks thoughts on rod length and the improvements possible through longer rods. I've never done anything with short rod engines (I SPIT upon your stupid little con rods!!) or with any engine lacking either piston or crank offset, but I understand that sometging like a 302 Ford with a minimalist rod has a sharper break between UP and DOWN. Get a big wheel and try it--you'll be amazed, it's so counterintuitive.
On an OHV, you can usually stop the piston woth a simple boly through an old spark plug as the stop; With a flathead, piston is way out of line with hole, so a flex block is needed if head is on. Best is a tie-wrap with a largish plastic buckjle, pushed in and across til it hits the far wall and carefully held in place by a helper. On any engine with heads off, you just bolt a strap with a suitable stop bolt across the cylinder.
Drill is to rotate engine by hand until it hits stop, mark pulley or degree wheel, rotate other way and mark again. It will take you about an extra 30 seconds to repeat a couple of times to be sure you bracket TDC at the same spot to be sure your stop did not shift if using the hand held way. True TDC is half way between stop points.
Old way shown in 1950's cam manuals was to use dial indicator to place piston same short distance down hole on each side of TDC, but this seems harder to do and easier to screw up than a solid THUD against an immovable object.

Once you find it make a SOLID pointer and a chisel mark on pulley...will post method for degreeing pulley in a bit.
Pointer cam be based on a stud and nut with end of stud reworked a bit in place of one of the timing cover bolts on many flatheads.

[Mart]

Bargain of the century for me was a real nice snap on timing light, like new in the box for a tenner.
You can dial in the advance and only need the tdc mark, no other marks.

Mart.

[joel]

thanks, I learned something today.

[Bruce Lancaster]

Now, if you compute the circumference and figgerout the width of a degree on your crank pulley, you will go nuts because you will discover you need to mark off .034888 of an inch or something like that...so go math-free:
Steal a protractor and a drawing compass from an 8th grader taking Plane Geometry.
Get a piece of cardboard.
Draw a circle the size of your pulley OD, then another around it from the same center made several inches bigger. From the center, mark off a zero line and sufficient degrees (see Pete, post 12) for your purposes. Divide the span of degrees as finely as you desire...5 degree blocks actually allow very close guesstimation within.
Once you are satisfied with your science project and pretty sure you are putting the advance degrees the right way, cut out the inner circle and just slide your artwork over the pulley with zero aligned with your TDC notch. Go to work...you can make permanent marks, or since this is quite easy, paint the area with typewriter correcting fluid and degree marks penciled on that...this can be blown away with a squirt of cleaner.
Your circle can be split on one side and surplus area cut away some so you can jigger it over the pulley from behind and not remove your belts.

[Ronnie]

What the hell is a typewriter something out of the 50's. "LOL"

R

[41ford1]

Lots of food for thought here. I'm thinking finding TDC will be the next little project for me. So I ask the knowlegable ones ( Ron & Bruce) is setting the timing with a vacuum gauge a valid process? I know mine runs a whole lot better and cooler now.

[flatjack9]

Yes, it is a valid process, but the best way is to determine TDC and work from there.

[Ol' Ron]

I've never set my timing with a vacuum gauge, the reason: I never drive my car at idle.. I file a mark at TDC and at 20 Degs for the stock car, which is about an inch using Bruce's arithmetic. that way I can fudge this as the need arises. For a street engine I find that a SBC Harmonic balance comes with very nice numbers on it . Have the balance bored to fit and a new key broched into it to align the new TDC. You can make a new pully or find a GM pulley. I know youse guys don't have a machine shop, but I like to putz around. Or you can make a tape.