Classtique Upholstery

[Oldbluoval]

BillCNC
That’s why the landfills are full and the oceans full of plastics
Environment endangered by our throw away society

[Tinbasher]

Well isn't that handy. JP

[BillCNC]

Originally Posted by Oldbluoval

BillCNC
That’s why the landfills are full and the oceans full of plastics
Environment endangered by our throw away society

Correct, a throw away society perpetuated by corporate greed.

Planed obsolescence, something our cars avoided when they were built and mfg's saw that in real time and began their plotting.

Regards
Bill

[Marshall V. Daut]

You can trace the concept of "planned obsolescence" in the automotive world back to GM Chairman Alfred P. Sloan in the late 1920's. The idea behind this concept was to create desire on the part of potential auto buyers for something new and different each year. In other words, create dissatisfaction with what they already had. That would equate to new sales each year for GM from repeat "dissatisfied" buyers.
So, the car that you are touting THIS YEAR as the best ever will be obsolete and unwanted in less than a year, necessitating buying a new best car ever? That's pretty much the way it was when I was growing up in the 1950's and 1960's. The excitement over the new cars coming out in September relegated that trusty 11 month-old car in the garage a dinosaur that had to be replaced in order to satisfy one's personal ago - and to keep up with the Jonses on the block. I wonder when we finally got away from that nonsense and started keeping our cars longer than two years? Maybe when they started costing more than a new house in 1955 did?
Marshall

[Keith True]

Read about Henry Fords scrappage program.It's pretty interesting.Once you bought his car his aim was to have you use it for a while,trouble free,then scrap it and buy another one.Now on top of planned obsolescence we have tech advances leaving fairly new products becoming obsolete.I put some solar panels on the roof of a new home 8 years ago,the owner told me they have worked great,but they are really now obsolete.The new panels will make juice in the moonlight.His were the best available at the time.

[JayJay]

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Originally Posted by Marshall V. Daut

You can trace the concept of "planned obsolescence" in the automotive world back to GM Chairman Alfred P. Sloan in the late 1920's. The idea behind this concept was to create desire on the part of potential auto buyers for something new and different each year. In other words, create dissatisfaction with what they already had. That would equate to new sales each year for GM from repeat "dissatisfied" buyers.
So, the car that you are touting THIS YEAR as the best ever will be obsolete and unwanted in less than a year, necessitating buying a new best car ever? That's pretty much the way it was when I was growing up in the 1950's and 1960's. The excitement over the new cars coming out in September relegated that trusty 11 month-old car in the garage a dinosaur that had to be replaced in order to satisfy one's personal ago - and to keep up with the Jonses on the block. I wonder when we finally got away from that nonsense and started keeping our cars longer than two years? Maybe when they started costing more than a new house in 1955 did?
Marshall

I remember in the ‘60s my dad (with me in tow) used to visit dealerships a few days before the official launch dates hoping to catch a preview of the new model year cars. He pretty much rotated cars every three years.

I think that nonsense disappeared just about the time that Japanese cars started making serious inroads into the US market in the ‘70s. All of a sudden buyers were faced with really crappy cars coming from Detroit (although there were exceptions, by and large the ‘70s were not really sterling offerings from US carmakers) coupled with solid, reliable cars that didn’t rattle, were economical to drive, and lasted over 100,000 miles. It took serious protectionism by the US government to avoid total loss of the US auto industry. Since then Ford has largely thrived, GM has contracted (remember Pontiac? remember Oldsmobile?), and the less said about Chrysler after that disaster with Fiat the better (they were so ashamed about that they changed the name of the company to Stellantis!).

Back to my father: GM guy all the way, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Buick, finally a series of Cadillacs. Replaced every three years. Me: other than Model As, last American car I owned was a 1990 Ford Taurus that got scrapped at 65,000 miles (four transaxles, head gasket, air conditioning compressor and heater core!). I’d gladly consider American again but my 20 year old Tundra and my wife’s 10 year old Prius are running great.

[dan]

Originally Posted by Brubaker

Loooking at the problem from a slightly different angle, I wish there was a way to part-time mentor someone on the restoration skills or occupations soon to be needed such as upholstery and many other specialized skills pertinent to antique auto restoration.
Personally speaking, I cannot leave my current job/profession for ~10 years but could dedicate some time to learn a new specific skill. Tough to pull-off from the cooperator's end. Using Mike at Classtique as an example, he's so busy he couldn't exactly conduct a MasterClass or Zoom session to tutor (although if he did I'd be first in line!). I know just a 'pipe dream' but there is interest out there to help (somehow). Difficulty lies in matching 'need' with available 'help' (as always).

Bruce

Bruce, I'm chiming in a little late here, but McPherson College offers "summer institute" classes that are like mini versions of their Auto Restoration courses. I know Kansas is a long drive from CA, but you might look into it. When I was getting my BS from Mac College, I talked to some of the summer institute participants and they were all pleased with the classes and enthusiastic. I believe they offer sheet metal and upholstery classes each summer--I don't recall all the details because as an undergrad I wasn't paying much attention, but you can probably contact the AR department at the college for more info.

[Brubaker]

Thanks Dan, I appreciate that.

B

[daveymc29]

So maybe, and it seems obviously true to me, instead of worrying so much about leaving a better word for our children, we should concentrate on leaving better children for the world.

[Gene F]

Originally Posted by dan

Bruce, I'm chiming in a little late here, but McPherson College offers "summer institute" classes that are like mini versions of their Auto Restoration courses. I know Kansas is a long drive from CA, but you might look into it. When I was getting my BS from Mac College, I talked to some of the summer institute participants and they were all pleased with the classes and enthusiastic. I believe they offer sheet metal and upholstery classes each summer--I don't recall all the details because as an undergrad I wasn't paying much attention, but you can probably contact the AR department at the college for more info.

Thanks for the tip Dan. A lot of these classes are full already! McPherson could add some classes I'd think. They have a pretty decent package put together to take these classes. Some of these classes cover things that are dieing trades, like; upholstrey, and babbit

[ronn]

I did look up McPherson and the classes look interesting and the price reasonable. My only question is how much you can learn in 5 days?


Seems a 1 month course would make more sense.

[Oldgearz]

Originally Posted by alexiskai

I'm trying to stay out of this discussion, but I will say that I think a lot of the people who used to go into these industries, and had the brains to succeed in them, now go into other lines of work where they get paid more and the work environment is nicer.

I work in IT and we have plenty of young people on staff who are creative problem solvers, easily trainable, high ROI, self-taught or certified through vocational schools. Many of them have technical hobbies like electronics and programming.

I think in a pre-computer age many of them would have gravitated toward mechanical trades, industrial design, engineering, etc. But they make a higher salary here than they would in most restoration shops, and their skills are transferable if they have to move due to family commitments.

I agree. Lots of bright, energetic young folks out there. Exactly what's wrong with them seeking higher paying, good benefits jobs?

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Oldgearz

I agree. Lots of bright, energetic young folks out there. Exactly what's wrong with them seeking higher paying, good benefits jobs?

Well, there definitely is not anything wrong with them seeking the things you suggest ...however, how many students out of every graduating class would we guess has the aptitude to learn a hi-tech or IT type of job?

Furthermore, the competency issue is still there when there is a need for a tradesman to do a task. Who fixes the plumbing leaks, or maybe a household wiring issue? What about finding competent labor to repair our vehicles? I'm not sure a world full of IT guys would solve our labor talent issues.

[ronn]

I completely agree with Brent- maybe 1 in 10 are capable of IT or hi tech jobs


same might be said about becoming doctors...............


my wife works at a hospital in NY and most doctors are now foreigners- most Americans find it to be too much work or cant succeed in stem courses.


so the work force in general has become somewhat dumbied down. sad to say

[Jeff/Illinois]

ronn is right.

From my travels overseas and interacting with folks especially in Germany, America HAS been 'dumbed -down' We are some of the stupidest people on the planet. Gullible and easy to sell, few people question anything anymore. They just go along.

I won't go into the 'why's' I'd get banned from here.

I'll finish by saying looks like if I want a new top for our Roadster, and done right, I may have to take it overseas (Tongue-in-cheek)

[Brubaker]

@Jeff/Illinois: Removing tongue-from-cheek, I wonder where someone from Germany/Europe would go for vintage auto interior materials? Assuming it would be the U.S. market, but could be a wrong assumption. It's a worldwide marketplace after all.

[ronn]

@Jeff/Illinois: Removing tongue-from-cheek, I wonder where someone from Germany/Europe would go for vintage auto interior materials? Assuming it would be the U.S. market, but could be a wrong assumption. It's a worldwide marketplace after all.



Considering Germany for example, they had Mercedes Benz at the turn of the century up, so they too would have had various interiors, maybe not so different from our own.
Of course we've all had leather, but I wouldnt be surprised if they also offered mohair and the like.


I had an uncle 35 yrs ago who lived in the Munich region. He sold hundreds of textiles in his Munich based shop. The best cottons came from Belguim at the time, as I recall.
So yes, Europe was quite apt. Maybe not exactly as we have, but Im sure they produce quite fine product in Europe.
A big factor for America is the complete loss of manufacturing.........

[rotorwrench]

The materials are a big factor in the auto trim world. Some contract to textile mills and others may have the equipment to mill their own but I don't know how many still do. A lot of the best wools were milled in Europe in the past, but there has been less call for materials since the manufacturing of these products has shifted to the pacific rim countries.

There is still some mills here in Texas but I don't know much about their finished product. Angora goats and sheep are still raised here but not as many as in past decades. Cotton is still grown here too. Most mills are still family run operations.

[alexiskai]

I saw an interesting thread on Twitter that was basically this phenomenon, but in the custom clothing world. First tweet below:
https://twitter.com/dieworkwear/stat...37041865454003

In the last ten years, I've seen:

1. A small cottage industry of made-to-measure Shetland sweater knitters disappear.

2. Two bridle leather goods makers close down. No replacements.

3. A major West End bespoke shoemaking firm shutter.

4. Two major American suit factories narrowly saved from the brink of bankruptcy (almost completely wiping out suit production in the US).

5. A major American shirtmaking factory also narrowly saved from permanent closure.

6. Vanners, one of the oldest silk mills in England, having started in 1740, was repossessed by administrators for the second time in two years. Management told me it's largely because of the decline in high-end neckwear sales around the world.

7. One of Britain's best leather goods manufacturers, RBJ Simpson—otherwise known as Simpson London—closed.

8. Caerlee Mills, which made some of the best Scottish cashmere knitwear in the world, many under the name Ballantyne, turn off its machines after 225 years of operation. The video below shows the factory being demolished.

9. Several bespoke tailors and bagmakers pass away or retire. In many cases, they did not have apprentices, so there was no one who was able to take their place. Their businesses just closed.

10. One of the best American tailors (a cutter, technically) called me in 2021 after he lost one of his coatmakers to COVID. He wanted to know if I had any recommendations to coatmakers in the US or around the world, as he doesn't know anyone left in the US who can sew a bespoke suit jacket or sport coat together anymore. The only people I could recommend to him were in Southern Italy.

[Jeff/Illinois]

Originally Posted by ronn

....................
A big factor for America is the complete loss of manufacturing.........

True.

Oh so very true