Found On Road Dead

[GB SISSON]

Wife and I coming home from a nice Sunday lunch in the woodie, get to a rise in the road about 2 miles from home. Engine quits like I killed the ignition switch. I quickly shifted into neutral hoping to clear the rise so I could pull into Segault's triangle at the cuttoff to Obstruction Pass. As we slowed down with some hill still ahead I started pulling the rise with the starter motor for propulsion. We crested the slight rise and dropped into the roadside triangle across from my buddy Tim Segault's place. Tim was in his barcalounger but came out to help us. If you have read 'hunting/strumbling/missing, you will know of my distributor journey. New fuel tank, two fuel pumps(elec on a switch), two filters, 1/2 tank or ethanol free gas. 8 new autolite 216s yesterday. Fat blue spark from coil wire. No spark at any plug wire. Pull rotor, looks perfect. Snap it all back together, can't see anything down behind those belts. Still no spark at plugs. Tim tows us home behind his beat up '82 chev 6.2 diesel 4x4 dually, bed covered with logging equipment. We had to unhook his trailer and I had to move his excavator so we could back out of his place. When we reach my steep gravel road we need a head of speed for momentum, but a neighbor is loafing up the hill looking back at what we are doing,. Well we got home and in the morning before work I will get into that horrible front mounted distributor and see what is up. I hate the location and I cannot wait to get that new 8ba built and installed to end this misery. I know, I know that dual point distributor is a masterpiece of ford engineering, but give me a regular old distributor when I have trouble on the road. What do I look for at dawn's early light? And sorry for the rant, you guys know I DO love these vehicles.

[51504bat]

I'm sure I'll ruffle some feathers but you could always go with an electronic distributor. Don't know if your 6 or 12 volt but they are available in both voltages. Another option is a Pertronix electronic conversion. My buddy has been running a Pertronix in the 59ab in his AV8 for years with no issues.

[tomcarman]

Your neighbor Tim is an admirable man in todays world. Sorry that happened to you. Whenever I drive the '32 I have my own personal rules.
1. The car doesn't leave my sight. (I wouldn't go to WalMart and go shopping, but I will go to breakfast and sit where I can keep an eye on it.
2. I don't go anywhere that requires a speed higher than 35 MPH. (The front end is sloppy and it can be scary to drive. A rebuild is planned.)
3. Someone has to be home to come get me with the truck and car trailer in case I beak down. (Yes, it has happened more than once.)
Good luck finding your Gremlin, I feel your fustration and I'm sure many other Barners have had the same experience.

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by 51504bat

I'm sure I'll ruffle some feathers but you could always go with an electronic distributor. Don't know if your 6 or 12 volt but they are available in both voltages. Another option is a Pertronix electronic conversion. My buddy has been running a Pertronix in the 59ab in his AV8 for years with no issues.

I may have already ruffled a few..... Really I just want my points (one set) up where i can stick my nose in them. OH, and the 255 cubes will be nice.

[Brian]

simple troubleshooting; you have fat blue spark at coil. But nothing at plugs. So....problem is rotor shorted. if cap had issues it'd be misfiring on some cylinders. Nothing wrong with the points

[35ragtop]

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GB, I agree with Brian,
I had mine stumble a few times and die. Towed home and upon investigation found that the rotor had shorted. The spark was going straight through the top into the shaft. ( crab distributor) I couldnt see the problem until I got under bright light .I now carry a quality spare rotor.
Dave

[Mart]

I also would be looking at the rotor. It might fire up again and idle now it's cold.

The heavy ignition loads during the uphill grade will test the ht side of the ignition. If the rotor is the weak link in the chain, that will fail.

I had a rotor fail and it would be ok at the first part of the journey then fail when hot and pulling a heavy HT load (pulling up a hill or accelerating).

A simple swap fixed it. You could see damage on the rotor.

[RKS.PA]

Gary, all's well that ends well! You and your wife got home safe and sound, notwithstanding the damper on a nice Sunday lunch!! Thank God for neighbors, or in my case AAA!

Betting you'll find the problem and fix it pronto today!!

[A bones]

Ya we know you love it. When all is right and you're singing along, it's much better than driving any new car, period.

[D. Jones]

I had my truck with the front mounted distributor die mysteriously a couple of times. I finally figured it out. I had serviced the fan hub and one drop of oil would fall on the distributor run in thru the timing set screw and short the points to ground. The point sets that I used had a slightly longer spring and when installed the clearance to the distributor housing was measured in thousandths of an inch. Little things can sometimes make a big difference. Granted front mounted distributors can be a pain to work on but once I did everything right it works fine.

[alanwoodieman]

shorted rotor for sure. helmet dizzy take off the rotor and put two layers of shrink tape-one at a time and this cures the problem--ask me how I know this

[deuce_roadster]

Gary, That often happens when you run a hotter coil then the original. Electricity will always go to the "easiest" ground and sometimes it is the shaft in the center of the rotor. Sometimes it is just a rotor that doesn't have enough plastic in a critical spot. Good luck, I know that is a hard place to get to with those wide fenders. Since this isn't an old greasy mess that hasn't been aprat forever it shouldn't be as bad as you think.

[GB SISSON]

THANKS!!! Ok, still on my second cup of coffee, will report back.

[GB SISSON]

YAY! Pulled down a cardboard box labeled 59ab ignition and there were 3 distributors and assorted caps and rotors for crabs. Picked out a newish looking rotor, installed it from under the car and voila! This may well have been the stumbling/hunting /missing thing I have been chasing for weeks. I looked at the distributor I replaced last week and the rotor was missing, leading me to suspect I moved the old rotor over to the 'new' distributor. I will road test after lunch as I have someone coming to the shop this morning. Thanks!

[RKS.PA]

Gary, that second cup of coffee put you over the top on the fix....that and the spare rotor!

[GB SISSON]

One good thing about all the engines we are given or buy cheap that end up to be horribly cracked is that they give up lots of spare parts. And the parts, while some of them are aftermarket, are old USA made stuff. I have a crab cap that is red and has a reverse firing order on it. Looks new, probably marine and I think it should work on a normal engine. I like the color. Heading out now on the test drive. I can't thank you all enough for the quick replies that fired up the woodie!

[GB SISSON]

Road test great. Still need to go to town and hit the long grades on the way home, but all systems GO.

[Will D]

Glad you got 'er figured. Now instead of Found On Road Dead you can be First On Race Day.

[Lawrie]

In my ford 33/34 book it shows how to make a high tension parts checker using a model T coil, I use mine on every dist I do.
Lawrie

[RKS.PA]

Originally Posted by Lawrie

In my ford 33/34 book it shows how to make a high tension parts checker using a model T coil, I use mine on every dist I do.
Lawrie

Lawrie, I'd like to know more about this. Don't have a 33/34 parts book, but am going to see what I can find online. Thanks for the idea!!

[stillwater]

Originally Posted by Will D

Glad you got 'er figured. Now instead of Found On Road Dead you can be First On Race Day.

Right!

And, he won't get passed by no "F.n Old Rebuilt Dodge" either.

[GB SISSON]

If you can insulate a rotor against the spark of a T coil, it should be good for anything. Speaking of which, I have been scheming about how to avoid the shorted rotor syndrome in the future. Plastic or rubber disc, epoxied in the center of rotor under the tab? I realize if it's too thick the cap would be too tight. Thinking I'll put a blob of clay with a waxed paper lid under the spring steel tab and see whar it measures, then go to something thinner. I have some flex-tape (as seen on tv) and man is it sticky. Maybe just a disc of that after cleaning rotor with laquer thinner. Of course I'm probably just over-thinking this. Again.

[Mart]

Having had a rotor fail straight through the top part under the tab, I "bullet proofed" my next new ones with a blob of epoxy over the center of the top. They've worked well since.

[GB SISSON]

Mart, you are my kinda guy!

[GB SISSON]

Well as some of you had read, this isn't the last of it..... BUT, this morning I fired it up and it was clearly running on seven cylinders. Turns out #1 was not firing. No spark at all off plug wire. Tried a different wire, good blue spark. I found a set of copper core 'cut to fit' wires so I made a new one for #1. No more miss. But I did notice the bad wire was a fuzzy core modern wire. (it wouldn't spark at all). That's odd , I would never buy those resistor wires for old school ignition. Then I had a pretty clear recollection that the woodie's plug wires came from a donor engine. They were off some filthy mess I dragged home but I liked the red plug boots and they all matched and were already the right length. I cleaned them with laquer thinner and they looked great on the refreshed 221 I built for the woodie. BUT..,. They were old and not real wire. I'm just hoping when I take it for a test drive in the morning, it was the wires all along that were a big part of the problem , along with the shorting rotor.

[cadillac512]

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GB, those high resistance carbon core wires may have been what caused the spark to jump through that rotor. Path of least resistance and all you know...


Terry

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by cadillac512

GB, those high resistance carbon core wires may have been what caused the spark to jump through that rotor. Path of least resistance and all you know


Terry

Thanks for that, never thought about that resistance. The plot thickens...

[Lawrie]

RKS, I’m away from my home for a couple of weeks so remind me then ( PM me) and I will shoot you the info.
Lawrie

[RKS.PA]

Gary, had absolutely the same experience! Rotor, Cap, and Bubba dist. all checked out, but couldn't get rid of intermittent miss. Changed my "lovely" Belden blue carbon cores for solid copper....Voila....or maybe Viola!!!....no more miss. Lot's of wasted hours chasing this. Also, I have an original Ford/Philco radio, so thought I might get interference with the solid copper.....nothing!!


Best of luck with all your projects!!.....Dick.

[RKS.PA]

Originally Posted by Lawrie

RKS, I’m away from my home for a couple of weeks so remind me then ( PM me) and I will shoot you the info.
Lawrie

Thank you, Lawrie. PM sent.

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by RKS.PA

Gary, had absolutely the same experience! Rotor, Cap, and Bubba dist. all checked out, but couldn't get rid of intermittent miss. Changed my "lovely" Belden blue carbon cores for solid copper....Voila....or maybe Viola!!!....no more miss. Lot's of wasted hours chasing this. Also, I have an original Ford/Philco radio, so thought I might get interference with the solid copper.....nothing!!


Best of luck with all your projects!!.....Dick.

Yessiree Dick! That was it! Just did the run to town (which is uphill both ways) and she pulled like a flathead V8! Not one stumble, not one miss. Coming home up the long grade where it ran the worst this summer, I used to have to downshift half way up, but roared over the top in High. Well, I woulda roared, but some pokey tourist was creeping along in front of me. I rode his tail but I refused to downshift. I still topped the hill easily in high. Now I wanna go on a road trip, but alas, half the state is on fire and probably not the best idea when your car is made out of wood! Thanks once more to all of you for the help!

[mike in tucson]

My typical fail is to put the bad rotor back into my box of electrical stuff so I can pull it out again in the future and go thru the entire sequence again. Kinda like my wife's dad had a keyboard that had an inoperative key....I took him a brand new one and he saved the old one for a spare!!

[GB SISSON]

So completely LOL. I took the old rotor and tossed it into a trash can beside the shop to stifle the urge. Well the following saturday we were going to the dump and after loading the cans into the pickup I found that old rotor sitting on the ground. I had missed the shot. For a brief moment I thought about sticking it in my pocket just because... And my spare laptop has 5 inop keys and a separate add-on keyboard with a cable that makes a connection sometimes. My daughter bought me this one. You musta read my mail!

[flatford8]

“Now I wanna go on a road trip, but alas, half the state is on fire and probably not the best idea when your car is made out of wood! ”
Ya....I can see a problem there!!!......glad your back running on all eight!!!.......Mark

[tubman]

"The Brillman Company" has Packard 440 wire available in several different amounts. It is all I will use on these old cars.