So, was I in the wrong for trying to educate the 3bay seller?

[ctlikon0712]

Ive debated whether or not to post this but the sellers last reply kinda made me think.... what the hell.
I saw this sale of a nice Model A. It looks nice but is not a real Traveler. The sale is at $19,000 with 6 bids and I thought the way they portrayed it as a restoration that it gave the impression that it was a real rare one.
Now I know that buyers should educate themselves but in the off chance that this seller was just ignorant of A's I thought I'd give him a friendly heads up that what he had wasn't real. This was our correspondence. I have not and will not hassle him further.
What do you guy's think?

Dear yaztecautoga,

I don't know how much your dealership knows about Model A's but that isn’t a real Traveler. There are many glaring discrepancies that scream bad restoration. Now I don't want to interfere with your sale but would hope that someone isn't misled thinking that they are buying a real Traveler. Some of the issues are:
They only made that model in 31 and that is a 30.
Woody's and Travelers were made from Hard Maple, that is oak, and the vertical and horizontal slats are not shaped or spaced correctly.
Also the header above the windshield should be metal not wood, and the front door hinges are an integral part of the cowl, those are not.
In my opinion someone took parts and built a Traveler and didn’t even use the proper cowl for a knock off
I don’t mean this letter with any malice; I just think everyone should be properly informed.
Craig Likon
- ctlikon

Ford : Model A
Item Id:
230898197995
End time:
Dec-23-12 13:00:00 PST
Seller:
yaztecautoga (463)
100.0% Positive Feedback
Member since Sep-25-01 in United States
Location: GA, United States
Listing Status:
This message was sent while the listing was active.


Dear ctlikon,
what is your point? Please remember that this car is not put up for judging at a Model A Club Forum? All people who have shown interest in this truck and some who are bidding on it are aware of all the facts that you have mentioned. Ebay is not on a chat line. If this car is not corret and you are not in a market to buy it, why are you expressing your opinion. I am 58 years old and have owned more than 1000 cars. Any where from a 1923 Bentley open tourer to a 1971 Mercedes 280SE 3.5 cabriolet and a 2012 Bentley twin turbo that is my daily driver. I know cars. I currently own 22 cars valued over $2,000,000.00. Do you really think I need you to judge my truck with or without malice? Do you own a real 1930 Woody wagon? If my truck is a pile of junk, then you need to move on and not worry about it. Some people like to have a nice vehicle that looks good and can be driven for not a whole lot of money. Not every one is buying a truck like this to take it their club meets and have the other 'expert' members shredd it apart like you do.
Happy holidays
- yaztecautoga


This was my point "Now I don't want to interfere with your sale but would hope that someone isn't misled thinking that they are buying a real Traveler." And yes I do own a real model A woody, unrestored. I don't know the sale agreement or specifics are, and don't care. If you had accepted the car as a trade then I hope the value didn't put you upside down. I also didn't want someone else to have buyer's remorse after finding out that the car isn't a real Traveler. You obviously already knew all this and didn't appreciate my heads up so.... good luck and Happy Holidays.
- ctlikon

Dear ctlikon,
Do not worry about how much I have paid for the truck or and how much someone else will pay for it. The only thing that you should worry about is that 'you' do not pay too much for it! Since you are not a prespective buyer, just stop hassling me or someone else about a vehicle that is not of your concern. Once again, fortunately I am not a Ford model A club member. I do not need advice! Just try to concentrate on your holidays. You are not the Ebay 'police'. I will not respond to any future emails.
- yaztecautoga

[trulyvintage]

If you are not interested in bidding on this ......


I think the reply was appropriate




Jim

[Rowdy]

I don't think that telling him the facts was wrong, but I would not have sent him a second message. Say it once and be done with it. Most sellers and many buyers do not really care how correct the car is. The seller just wants the money and the buyer educated or not can clearly see what they are buying. I have been on both ends of this. If selling I will post the original question and a polite reply. At that point I feel my part on taking and pointing out any differences is done as it is there for eveyone to read. Right now I have been in contact several times with the seller of the 1929 130-A Deluxe Delivery seller as a friend of mine is debating wheather to bid on it. The seller has not posted the questions I have asked or the replies, nor has he added the info as to missing pieces etc. I feel he should have added the info or posted the questions, this throws up some red flags for me, but it is not me decesion when and if my friend decides to bid. Rod

[Cool Hand Lurker]

If the seller is posting everything he knows about the car, stay out of it. I have had "experts" chime in on some stuff I sold where I KNEW that they were wrong. I have been at shows where "experts" were put down by other "experts" too. Why should any Ebay seller listen to some "expert" that he doesn't even know, and doesn't know if the "expert" really knows what is right or not? You are not helping, you are interfering. Back off.

[Craig Lewis]

To me the car is "carefully" missrepresented.
Looking at the pictures it is no worse than the majority of Model A's I see at car shows and in the mall on display. Unfortunately the vast majority of potential Model A owners don't make use of the available forums and literature to find out what an authentic car should be made of until it's too late and they own it. I did the same thing over 20 yrs ago and am still dealing with the consequences.
It's the same thing as when the vast majority invests their life savings... It's been said we'll generally put more thought into picking out a pair of pants, than into selecting a financial advisor.
Whoever buys this thing will very likely get a certain amount of enjoyment from it or the attention he's starving for at car shows. Hopefully the internals & running gear aren't as badly represented as the car & maybe he will get some happy use from it.
...although the salesperson has carefully covered his *ss stating it's only been driven "around the block". Smart one!
Sure it's covered with dozens upon dozens of incorrect parts, the paint is too shiny in the wrong places, the woodwork somehow looks "all wrong" (to my uneducated woodworking eyes)...even the ad is riddled with spelling errors. I'm not sure how they got "plating" to adhere to all the stainless nor why the dents where left in the radiator surround. I'm not even sure what they "rebuilt" on the head as even the ad acknowledges the valves are in the block.
Bottom line is ...buyer beware, I know you've done a commendable job of politely educating them but you'll never be able to save the world and besides, if everyone was smart...we'd all have a much harder time saving for retirement.
Merry Christmas everyone

[ctlikon0712]

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Cool Hand Lurker, I understand your point and stance. I havent contacted him further and don't plan too. However what I told him about the vehicle wasn't mistaken it was fact. I didn't interefere in any way with the sale, just wanted to give him a FIY if he was open to it. After answereing his question in his first response I said my piece and that was that. No reason to "Back off" now....

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

I tend to agree with others. I often find this forum and another Club-specific forums are very bad to stick their nose into others business in this regard making armchair appraisals or nitpicking someone else's property. I feel that often times people will be brazen enough to say things to people while hiding behind a computer screen that would never be mentioned in public. For example, imagine being at a public car auction and the auctioneer says "Lookie here boys & girls, he we have a 'classic' 1966 Ford Mustang ...." --and someone from the audience interupts the auctioneer and says "Sir, that really isn't a 'classic' because to truly be considered a classic it must meet the criteria of the Classic Car Club of America!" Imagine the response from other folks within earshot!!

Most of us would never consider saying such a thing publicly even though we know the facts. I do believe this is what governmental control has done for society in general in that some feel anyone that is a potential buyer needs to have oversight. Personally I tend to believe anyone that is a serious bidder for this car is NOT making the purchase for authenticity, ...but because they want it to fulfil their own desire. Therefore only they can determine the vehicle's value as it aligns with their desires and uses. IMO we do not have any business trying to interject our own opinions into someone else's business unless they have solicited for our opinion.

.

[J Franklin]

In the sellers own words: THIS TRUCK GIVES A NEW MEANING TO THE WORD "RESTORED".

It is a nice looking truck.

[Cool Hand Lurker]

ctlikon, in re-reading my post I see that it was not composed too kindly. Sorry about that but I seem to do that a lot.
You say it was fact and I won't argue that, but the seller can only put in an ad those things that he knows and can stand behind. Anything else can only get him in trouble. And when info comes from another "expert" how does he know that it is fact? He doesn't know, so he can't put it into the ad even if it is correct info. This reminds me of how many times somebody came up to my car and said "that color isn't correct".......
My life isn't long enough to gain enough knowledge to know everything that would be right about a Model A so I just stick to how-to-do-it advice based on my experience. And I know that in everything there is more than one way to do it.
Peace.

[Craig Lewis]

Has anyone else noticed that the sellers "defence" was much better worded than the original presentation?

[BobbyG]

Fair Dos to you Craig - some people just don't appreciate the value of information especially when it is for free.

You did the right thing in my mind & thanks for sharing.

Bob

[Chris in WNC]

we have got to quit trying to inspire any sense of ethics in these car dealers on eBay.
I wasted a few minutes of my time last week on another one, partly because of a fellow Fordbarner's overly charitable opinion of how such communication would be received.
hopefully I will not do so again unless asked for an opinion.
these sellers just do not care about a buyer getting hosed on one of these deals.
it's like the angst we suffer when a very nice Model A gets rodded.
relax. let it go. do something fun instead. your blood pressure will thank you :-)

[ctlikon0712]

Brent, I think that is a very true hypothesis. If I saw the vehicle and owner in person I would have still approached him if he claimed it was a restored original. I might have colored my statements differently, but then again he might would have seen my genuine motive to be a honest, benevolent advisor not a critic seeking an online thrill.
Cool Hand Lurker, no worries. I put this out there just as a sounding board of my peers. I knew there would be both sides of the coin here. I also see where I could have posed my first letter to him better but it was first thing in the morning for me. Maybe I should have asked him what he meant by "restored" and if he knew of any of the indicators I ended up mentioning.
Craig, yes I noticed that too and thought it was funny how he seemed to justify his position by how many and how much he has. Good for him, I just hope it isn't gained from unsuspecting consumers.
BobbyG, Its funny you commented here. I kind of was thinking of your situation here. I have followed your questions about your car and how it was built by a "known builder" I believe was the term. I truly hope that you are still enjoying your car, even with the unforeseen challenges you have faced with it.
Chris, you are probably right. I just hate to see people taken.
Thanks for chiming in everyone.

[Skibb]

As a practical matter, IMO, many used car dealers selling on eBay
game their environment for their best advantage. Perhaps there's nothing wrong with misstating the model or detailing one aspect of the restoration as exact while ignoring a wood windshield frame or slipping in phantom bids. Clitkon has the experience and the eye for Model A's as most of you do (I do not). Telling the dealer that he has an opinion about the "truth" of the adverstisement is certainly as Amercian as apple pie. My take is that yaztecautoga is a little thin skinned while protecting his turf and his grand 2 million dollar inventory. Yet, Brent is right that the eventual buyer will decide what's right for his own garage. There are way too few people like you all that know the difference between a Traveler and a station wagon and way too many who sell cars based on a misstatement.

[TonyM]

Yep, got to be careful with these E-bay Car Flippers. They don't care about cars, they care about making a profit off of cars. I saw an ad for a 1941 Buick a guy was selling--he apparently bought a collection of a few dozen cars. He posted an ad with the initial estate sale/for sale signs on the car. The car was offered at the estate sale for $4,995. The guy sent me the photos and was asking for $9,995. I asked him if there was $5,000 cash in the glove box. He wanted to know why I would ask such a question. I pointed out the discrepancy of the price in the photo and the price he was asking. He said that I wasnt' supposed to see those photos. He then took down all of his ads and cleansed them of the offending for sale signs with his initial estate sale purchase prices on them. Oh yeah, then he offered me the car for $7,995. I told him to take a jump. I don't deal with car flippers. TM

[Mike V. Florida]

You can lead a horse to water. After all he is a professional used car salesman you know, only used on Sundays by a little old lady.

[ronn]

I've done the same in the past and have had positive responses and negative as well.

Anymore I avoid commenting on anything. Let the judges at the shows do that....

[Fordors]

I've have done the same thing and notified a seller, but sometimes trying to educate someone who asks no assistance is like p-ssing in the wind. Certainly some are out to deceive buyers but I like to think that most are just ignorant of the facts and especially those slight nuances that some of us in the hobby thrive on.
When I do contact someone now I do it in a constructive way and for the most part it is warmly received.

[1931 flamingo]

EBAY=Buyer Beware. JMO
Paul in CT

[Carter]

I don't have any issue with what you did. I've done it before, thinking that perhaps the seller may not know, and trying to save them some aggravation. I've had people thank me, and I've had people tell me to get lost.

[28RPU]

I think that most people who do not take the information to heart and get all defensive about it are purposely deceiving people. I would think an honest person would welcome the information and do the research to find out the truth.

[van Dyck]

Just yesterday, I watched a TED talk and the topic was," how to spot a liar" with Pamela Meyer as the speaker. It is well worth your while to watch it. One of the things she says is that we now live in a "post-truth society" and that we are in a "deception epidemic". Most people will allow themselves to fall victim to deception especially when the desire to own a particular item exceeds their sensibility to properly examine the deception.

[green30coupe]

I made the mistake of politely (I thought) challenging an eBay seller's description of a "NOS" part once. The vulgar, vitriolic response I got taught me to let it go. Had we been face-to-face I would have ripped his lips off and sold them to a bologna factory! But, maybe he just needed to vent on somebody and I served the purpose.

Ed

[Allanw]

Originally Posted by 28RPU

I think that most people who do not take the information to heart and get all defensive about it are purposely deceiving people. I would think an honest person would welcome the information and do the research to find out the truth.

That is 100% exactly what I thought before I saw your post.

There are a LOT of Ebayers (and other auction sites!) who really have no clue, or are deceptive on purpose. Some of these people are regurgitating what they've been told, and some are the ones making up the stuff that will be regurgitated for years to come. I see similar stuff on all the forums I've ever read.

I'm sure there'll be an ebay policy around misrepresentation etc - if some one looked like they were being deceptive, I tend to report the ad instead - it's anonymous and less hassle than dealing with these cretins.

[vulture]

Not looking to fuel the fire but what is a expert

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

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Originally Posted by vulture

Not looking to fuel the fire but what is a expert

.

[CarlG]

I like looking for things on eBay that are obviously described wrong. And a lot of the time, in the incorrect category. Some of my best buys have been these items since no one else bids on them.

An accurately described item in the correct category draws more bidders and therefore a higher selling price.

[Ross/Kzoo]

Originally Posted by CarlG

I like looking for things on eBay that are obviously described wrong. And a lot of the time, in the incorrect category. Some of my best buys have been these items since no one else bids on them.

An accurately described item in the correct category draws more bidders and therefore a higher selling price.

You're right. I got a great car trunk for a 35 Chevy that wasn't in the right category. I was the only bidder at the last minute.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Carter

I don't have any issue with what you did. I've done it before, thinking that perhaps the seller may not know, and trying to save them some aggravation. I've had people thank me, and I've had people tell me to get lost.

Ditto but the "I did not realize that" are more common.

[bartmcneill]

If I had $2,000,000 in cars do you think I would take my time to emails someone such a wordy email as the seller did? Roll up your pants legs, its getting deep.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Dog here,
B.S. abounds, everywhere, some rolled in GLITTER! There's NOT enough shovels in the world to take care of it!! Gregg is a good kid, he picks up my D.S, it doesn't even stink!
By the way, what is E-BAY?????????? Buster T.

[Vern]

And it doesn't have the engine pans! Truly does give a new definition of the word "RESTORED" as the seller says. Should have spent the few $.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Vern

And it doesn't have the engine pans! Truly does give a new definition of the word "RESTORED" as the seller says. Should have spent the few $.

Vaccum fittings but no vaccum lines.

[ctlikon0712]

Yes, all good points. Also the inner fenders are obviously home made, and so is the rear spring cover. So many things. I truely think someone who pay's that much for that kind of job will be dissapointed when they see it in person. Say La Vi (spl)?

[jr-41ford]

I have been looking at some Model A Woodies to buy, this one is not exactly what I want, but thought I would go ahead and ask the seller a couple of questions.

I asked about splash pans and the brass tag riveted to the firewall/gas tank and here is the reply.


"Hello Jr.
Thank you for your interest in our 1930 Ford. We specialize in vintage European cars. This our first Model A truck. We have had a few emails people asking about different items. To the best of our knowledge, the brass tag is a VIN plate. The serial number on the plate appears to be correct for the year of the truck. However, we were told that ford model As did not have a VIN plate ( so the speak) at least not in that location. The previous owner had the plate fabricated in order to have the truck registered in Georgia. As far as your second question, we do not have first hand knowledge about the splash pans."

In the state of Washington, where I live, the fabricated plate with the serial number wouldn't fly. I would be required to disassemble the car, enough to have the WA State Patrol, verify the VIN numbers on the frame. If the numbers didn't match the title, the vehicle would be confiscated until until who knows when.

After reading other comments on here, in addition to the seller's reply, it makes good sense to pass on the vehicle.

[Chuck Kuntz]

I don't agree that you should always just mind your own business. I almost bought a fake 1955 Ford convertible at Carlisle about 15 years ago. It looked super straight and the price was fair. The seller had a convincing line of BS about how he had restored it. Another fellow was interested at the same time and the seller started repeating the same story to him. A nosey non-bidding fellow then pointed out that it was not a real convertible and sure enough when he pointed out the problems it wasn't. Seller was really pissed off. Saved me and at least one other person a bundle.
I have politely told people at Hershey if their part was not correctly identified. I agree that you can usually judge their intent by their reaction.

[Buz]

Originally Posted by jr-41ford

In the state of Washington, where I live, the fabricated plate with the serial number wouldn't fly. I would be required to disassemble the car, enough to have the WA State Patrol, verify the VIN numbers on the frame. If the numbers didn't match the title, the vehicle would be confiscated until until who knows when.

You would also have a similar problem in NC.

Makes you wonder why there are so many old cars listed on eBay out of the state of Georgia seeing as they don't have titles there.

[TnA]

Originally Posted by vulture

Not looking to fuel the fire but what is a expert

just looked that up in the Local Dickshun arry, an ex is a has been, and a spert is a drip under pressure...oops did I print that

[sturgis39]

There was a 40 Ford coupe on e-bay about a month ago. It was described as a two door sedan. I watched the item and thought I would look at it later. It went cheap-$12,000.
It looked like a nice stock car without the SBC, aluminum radiator and Mustang Too. I wish I would have been alert.

The seller seem to be reluctant to post questions that are asked. Except ones that ask if the seller would consider a trade for a 2012 Corvette for a 89 Olds with 400,000 miles.

I do not bid until the end time is close. I know a person that sells a lot of stuff on e-bay and he bids his own stuff up. Than when the item is his because he is the high bidder, he claims non paying bidder and lists the item again.

[TonyM]

Originally Posted by ctlikon0712

Say La Vi (spl)?

That would be "C'est la vie."

[Tinker]

I think you were fine to send a email to the seller. You didn't badger him.

As mentioned by a few, 3bay = Buyer beware.

I would hope if you were putting down 20k for a car, you'd research or have someone knowledgeable help you identify any problems.

It's a nice looking vehicle.

[Cool Hand Lurker]

As far as I know, Marco has the only perfect Model A out there.

OK, purists, go forth and critique all the others!

[trulyvintage]

Ebay is a place to sell

" Ask a Question " is for prospective buyers to ask a question about
an item they are interested in bidding on before auction end before
they place a bid ...

It is up to the Seller to do their research and represent the item
they are selling truthfully and to the best of their knowledge
prior to listin it ....

The OP of this thread was not a prospective bidder ....





Jim

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by TnA

just looked that up in the Local Dickshun arry, an ex is a has been, and a spert is a drip under pressure...oops did I print that

TnA,
Now, thhat's funny!!!!!! And YES, you did print it!!!! Bill W. & The Dog

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by Cool Hand Lurker

As far as I know, Marco has the only perfect Model A out there.

OK, purists, go forth and critique all the others!

Cool,
I like MARCO! Once he confessed that he had 4, yes 4 modern lock washers "HIDDEN" under the front sheet metal in his roadster! Bill W.

[Ca. Kid]

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IMHO you were wrong. It sounds like the seller is ignorant about Model A's but is very defensive as he no doubt paid too much for the car. You would go nuts trying to educate all the "ignorant" sellers on 3bay
Any prospective buyer who is unsure about the car or is really concerned about getting burnt should invest in a trip to see it in person and hire someone knowledgeable in the vehicle.
Never spend more than you can afford. Most cars are a poor investment, they are just a lot of fun.

[ctlikon0712]

For those who are unfamiliar with the "Traveler" or camper, here are some pics of one that was original and restored nicely. Oops, I meant unoriginal and then copied well.
http://www.hotrodsbyhg.com/current_p...y%20Camper.htm

[Craig Lewis]

There's another thing missing from the ebay car ... the canoe!

[Roadster62]

I've read the Original Post, and none of the Forum replies. Without seeing the eBay auction I have no idea what the vehicle looks like, that being said, I'd never take the time to play Model A Police. Merry Christmas. Bob

[TonyM]

This thread reminds me a little of the Great E-Bay Shay Model A Controversy that played out some months ago on this forum. That was the one where the seller could not be convinced his Shay was not an authentic Model A car.

[Richard/Ca]

i don't think I would buy Model A or any car off Ebay that was claimed to be a total frame up Restoration.especially at that prices with out going to look and see how authentic the job. And since I am no were near to being and expert I would probably ask some with a good knowledge of model A's with me. "Let the buyer beware" I know it would be impossible for all the experts on the Form to fooled. But how would you liked it if you brought a car form " A shifty eyed used car dealer that claims it was a authentic restoration. Then take to a club meeting or show some of your friends and they start picking it apart. All because no body had the balls to try and let people know.I think it's a nice looking woody.At that price I can't afford it anyway! Sorry if I offened anyone. Richard.

[Bob-A]

I've tried to "relay" information to a few greedBay auctioners in the past.
Either they appreciated the info and relayed it with a completely wrong
interpretation as to what I said on the item site! And/or, they stopped the auction and restarted it later at a higher opening or reserve price.

One of my favorite pass times is find things on greedBay that people do
not know what it is they are auctioning and I do. Oh' boy, a deal......
until somebody else also knows what it is and out bids me....."the so & so
blankity-blank momma' lover......."

Bob-A

[Richard/Ca]

Brett and Vulture have a good question. What is an expert? And I would like to know why some one with a vast knowledge of somethings would be called an ex anyway? I was told in my Army days there was no such person as a expert in the Demolition and Mine Warfare class I was taking. Because once you new it all you would not be around to tell about it. I think an expert use to be a pert what ever that was.

[Fred]

Ok, This is in part some of the answer I got after telling him that the car was not an original one because they never made one in 1930, the wood type & the way it was built was wrong, plus many mix & match parts were added to it.. I don`t know who you are and really don`t care! However, I am sure you are one of the Model A club members. I have had the pleasure of talking and dealing with some of the members in the past. Most were extemely nice. However, there are a few of the members (jack asses) that they think they know everything about everything, This truck was traded to me. Everthing that I described was furnished to me by the documents that I have and the facts that were presented to me. here are some facts; Ford products are piles of shit vintage or new. They helped people move around and about as a necessity in the early years. A perfect car for the blue collar working class. None of the old and new models have any characters or performance. Your bitter judgment explains your low menthal state of mind and social communication skills of the Ford followers. The most expensive Ford model A is worth less than $30,000 . That attacts people in your social status and means. Therefore, I can not expect too much from you. I encourage you to come by and inspect my 1923 Bentley Open Tourer ( 1 of 7 made)and valued over a Million Dollar. I bet you will be speechless and would not dare to express any opinion. I encourage you to just stay and chat on line with people of yor level. P.S. The above spelling was his also..

[700rpm]

Originally Posted by Fred

Ok, This is in part some of the answer I got after telling him that the car was not an original one because they never made one in 1930, the wood type & the way it was built was wrong, plus many mix & match parts were added to it.. I don`t know who you are and really don`t care! However, I am sure you are one of the Model A club members. I have had the pleasure of talking and dealing with some of the members in the past. Most were extemely nice. However, there are a few of the members (jack asses) that they think they know everything about everything, This truck was traded to me. Everthing that I described was furnished to me by the documents that I have and the facts that were presented to me. here are some facts; Ford products are piles of shit vintage or new. They helped people move around and about as a necessity in the early years. A perfect car for the blue collar working class. None of the old and new models have any characters or performance. Your bitter judgment explains your low menthal state of mind and social communication skills of the Ford followers. The most expensive Ford model A is worth less than $30,000 . That attacts people in your social status and means. Therefore, I can not expect too much from you. I encourage you to come by and inspect my 1923 Bentley Open Tourer ( 1 of 7 made)and valued over a Million Dollar. I bet you will be speechless and would not dare to express any opinion. I encourage you to just stay and chat on line with people of yor level. P.S. The above spelling was his also..

His statement is a very clear indication of what kind of person he is, and I would avoid doing any kind of business with such a person.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Fred, Tell him if he had "REAL" class he'd own a Rolls Royce, rather than the lower priced Bentley.
Weren't Bentleys for the servants to go grocery shopping in?

[TonyM]

Guys like that have no idea how to enjoy an automobile; they can only brag about how much they spent. Not a real enthusiast, just an A-ho.

[ctlikon0712]

Fred, that is a great summation and spot on the way I read his pompous reply.